Who’s had the vaccine ? Side effects ?

[TIC]

i will keep this polite in the effort to show there is nothing personal here, i am only interested in what can be proven to be true

the burden of proof is with the person making the claim. you have a claim that covid is real & is the cause of your illness & i am asking you to prove that claim is real

the vast majority of people may accept that covid exists & that is indeed a virus. firstly, i see you are speaking for others, this discussion right here is between you & i, if others wish to discuss this then it will be between myself & them so that no one is speaking for someone else. secondly, i am asking for what you have proven to exist, not what you accept to exist. thirdly, you are using an argumentum ad populum fallacy or appeal to masses fallacy, just because many people accept something exists is not proof that it exists

the vast majority may include highly educated people in pertinent fields, this is an argument from authority or appeal to authority fallacy, so as this discussion is between you & i, what proof have got from these highly educated people in pertinent fields that you have verified & you can provide to me so i can also verify that proves your claim?

the vast majority may also include people who have gotten ill or affected in some way, you are making a presupposition that the virus was the cause of this illness. as this discussion is between you & i, what proof do you have that i can also verify that the virus you are claiming was the cause of your illness?

there is no need to quantify “vast majority" because it is an argumentum ad populum fallacy or appeal to masses fallacy.

i am not making a claim, you are claiming covid exists & i am asking you to prove it exists. you are trying to shift the burden of proof; this is another fallacy. the only one making a claim in our discussion is you & i am asking you to prove your claim is real

so is conventional knowledge something that has been accepted or been proven? i am asking you to prove your claim is real

i have not investigated the flat earth topic & it is off topic to our discussion here, i want go as far as saying you’re using a red herring fallacy. you & i can discuss it further if you want in another thread, but my initial thought would be that the vast majority of the civilized world believes the world is round is the claim being made. i do find it interesting that you used the word believes though

there is no argument, you & i are discussing a belief you have that you claim is real & i am asking you to prove that belief is real

i feel i have been more than generous is pointing out your fallacies & faulty reasoning. i hope if our discussion continues it can progress forward based on logic & the proof you are able to provide

[Beanz]

The problem is you are making a claim TIC. From day one you have been calling Covid, 'Convid' and 'a bullshit virus'.

That has always put the burden of proof on your shoulders.

You can pretend that you are having a conversation but really you are struggling to entertain a thought without feeling that you must accept it.

You do not yet have the maturity or skills to understand the fallacies you are using to avoid doing any rational thinking yourself.

An appeal to Authority is not fallacious if that Authority really is an expert authority in the relevant field.

You are being incredibly disingenuous with Titofan by attributing to him motivations and arguments he never made in order to convince yourself that again you yourself do not have to prove that your claim is real.

Prove your claim is real.

Stop being rude and childish and explain your own very immature belief system.

We are all ears.

[TIC]

The problem is you are making a claim TIC. From day one you have been calling Covid, 'Convid' and 'a bullshit virus'.

That has always put the burden of proof on your shoulders.

You can pretend that you are having a conversation but really you are struggling to entertain a thought without feeling that you must accept it.

You do not yet have the maturity or skills to understand the fallacies you are using to avoid doing any rational thinking yourself.

An appeal to Authority is not fallacious if that Authority really is an expert authority in the relevant field.

You are being incredibly disingenuous with Titofan by attributing to him motivations and arguments he never made in order to convince yourself that again you yourself do not have to prove that your claim is real.

Prove your claim is real.

Stop being rude and childish and explain your own very immature belief system.

We are all ears.

the claim is covid is a virus that cause illness in people. that is where the burden of proof lies

i can call it bullshit or a hoax until proof is provided, that is not me making a claim. that is me pointing out fallacies & beliefs

i am happy to entetain the thought that covid is a virus that cause illness in people but i won't acccept it as real until proof is provided. it is you who is unable to entertain the thought that your belief in covid might not be correct without feeling that you must accept it

you are using an ad hominem fallacy by focusing on my maturity or skills & saying i am avoiding doing any rational thinking myself, when you are the one unable to think for yourself & provide the proof of your claim

an an appeal to authority is a fallacy. it is not proof of your claim. please provide the proof you have verified from an expert authority in the relevant field that i can also verify that proves your claim is real

there is nothing disingenuous about highlighting titofans fallacies. show one example of me being disingenuous to his statements.

again the claim is covid is a virus that cause illness in people. that is where the burden of proof lies. i am not the one making a claim. stop trying to shift the burden of proof

rude and childish are ad hominem fallacies focused on me rather than the claim that covid is a virus that causes illness in people.

i don't hold an immature belief system, you are creating a strawman to attack, it's also another ad hominem fallacy focused on me rather than the burden to prove your claim, you hold a belief & i am asking you to prove your belief is real

provide proof that i can verfiy that proves your belief that covid is a virus that causes illness in people. i'm all ears

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Definitely it was a syllogistically unsound argument from authority or appeal to authority fallacy

[TitoFan]

I can appreciate your wanting to "keep this polite," but it doesn't make your counterarguments any more accurate.

The first thing that pops out of your replies is the long list of supposed fallacies I'm expressing.

We all have Internet, and we all have access to the sites that list all the argument fallacies known to man.

"Argumentum ad populum fallacy"
"Red herring fallacy"
"Ad hominem fallacy"
"Appeal to authority fallacy"
"Strawman fallacy"

I can assure you without a shadow of a doubt that no one here is impressed by your rattling off of these Google-able fallacies.

I think Beanz said it well...

You do not yet have the maturity or skills to understand the fallacies you are using to avoid doing any rational thinking yourself.

I'll point out the holes in your reply.

the vast majority of people may accept that covid exists & that is indeed a virus. firstly, i see you are speaking for others, this discussion right here is between you & i, if others wish to discuss this then it will be between myself & them so that no one is speaking for someone else.

As authoritative as you may want to sound, this one is pure B.S. If quoting known statistics on how people feel about COVID is "speaking for others", I'm afraid you've missed the train.
So drop the "speaking for others" B.S. for when it really applies.

the vast majority may include highly educated people in pertinent fields, this is an argument from authority or appeal to authority fallacy, so as this discussion is between you & i, what proof have got from these highly educated people in pertinent fields that you have verified & you can provide to me so i can also verify that proves your claim?

Another one to which you slapped a Googled fallacy.
The problem with this, is that the Appeal to Authority fallacy refers to those times you pick out unqualified authority figures to back up your argument.

Example:

Appeal to authority fallacy refers to the use of an expert’s opinion to back up an argument. Instead of justifying one’s claim, a person cites an authority figure who is not qualified to make reliable claims about the topic at hand. Because people tend to believe experts, appeal to authority often imbues an argument with credibility.

Appeal to authority fallacy example
“My favorite actor, who starred in that movie about a virus that turns people into zombies, said in an interview that genetically modified crops caused COVID-19. So I think that’s what really happened.”

In our case, we're talking about QUALIFIED authority figures. Qualified through years and sometimes decades of study in related fields.
Moreover, it's not just one or two or a dozen authorities. We're literally talking thousands around the world.
So... sorry. Another argument shot down.

i have not investigated the flat earth topic & it is off topic to our discussion here, i want go as far as saying you’re using a red herring fallacy. you & i can discuss it further if you want in another thread, but my initial thought would be that the vast majority of the civilized world believes the world is round is the claim being made. i do find it interesting that you used the word believes though

As much as you want to assign yet another Googled fallacy to my arguments (the red herring one this time), you're wrong once again. I'm not using "an irrelevant topic to divert attention from the main issue."
I'm using an example to illustrate and drive home my point.
Look it up. Examples are used in adult conversations and arguments.

i feel i have been more than generous is pointing out your fallacies & faulty reasoning. i hope if our discussion continues it can progress forward based on logic & the proof you are able to provide

I suppose you felt the need to end your "full-of-holes" speech with a pretentious and grandiose statement. But generosity is totally irrelevant here. I see your use of the word as a comical attempt to sound patient, when in reality it is some of us who are actually demonstrating an immense amount of patience.

"Pointing out my fallacies and faulty reasoning" is basically (no offense) a load of horseshit which, as you've been clearly shown, is actually the other way around.

If you really "hoped our discussion could progress forward", you'd debate in an honest manner, and not cutting/pasting easily Googled fallacies which, as was accurately pointed out earlier... you have neither the maturity nor the comprehension to understand.

Finally...

Phrases like "prove to me"... "show me"... "proof you are able to provide"... continue to miss the boat. Let me explain something as clearly as I can.

I need to prove to a bank that I'm good for repayment of a loan.

I need to prove to a professor that I have learned the subject matter by passing a test I am administered.

I need to prove to my boss that I'm able to handle the workload I have been given.

To you... I honestly don't need to prove SHIT. But I presume you know that.


Finally (again)...

Your eternal confusion with what constitutes evidence, proof, verification, and all related principles.

Do you know where you were born? How? Where is the proof of that?

Do you know who your parents are? How? Where is your proof of that?

Whatever you learned in science, math, and the other subject matter you must have taken in school... did you personally perform experiments to verify each and every one?


Unfortunately, you have a problem common to all conspiracy theorists and deniers. You sit back and dismiss everything, including that which is accepted by much more educated people than you or I... because it's the easy, lazy, noncommittal way to live. Some of us just don't fall for that bullshit.

[TIC]

i’m not trying to impress anyone by highlighting your logical fallacies. i’m highlighting the logical fallacies you are using

larry used an ad hominem fallacy to focus on my maturity & skills to understand the fallacies i am using to avoid doing any rational thinking myself, instead of focusing on the topic of discussion, which is proving covid is real

you are making a presumption about the statistics you provided as being known. did you complete them yourself, asking each person? or are you just repeating something you’ve seen & been told?

an appeal to authority fallacy does not only refer to an influential figure, it also includes real and pertinent intellectual authorities. i asked you to provide the proof have gotten from these highly educated people in pertinent fields that you have verified so i can also verify that proves your claim. you have provided no proof that you yourself have verified & have tried to misrepresent what an appeal to authority fallacy is

i said i won’t go as far as saying you’re using a red herring fallacy. there is no need for examples, just provide the proof that your belief is real

you said you were feeling generous & i felt i had been generous in my response. but when i use the word it’s pretentious and grandiose, irrelevant & an attempt to sound patient

pointing out your fallacies & faulty reason is not horse shit & is not the other way around. what fallacies have you pointed out from myself?

there is no debate. you believe something is real & i am asking you to prove it

you don’t have to prove anything to me but until you do you only hold a belief

“Do you know where you were born? How? Where is the proof of that? Do you know who your parents are? How? Where is your proof of that? Whatever you learned in science, math, and the other subject matter you must have taken in school... did you personally perform experiments to verify each and every one?”

these are all red herrings & strawman arguments. our topic of discussion is that you believe covid is real & I am asking you to prove it

labelling me a conspiracy theorist is not how one conducts an honest discussion, it’s a psychological tactic. you haven’t provided any proof that you have personally verified for me to dismiss. i am not asking for what much more educated people than yourself accept, i am asking you to provide the proof that you have verified yourself from these people that i can also verify that proves your claim is real. it seems you are the one just accepting what you’ve been told instead of verifying it, because it’s easy, it seems you’re not thinking for yourself & have instead been told what to think, that’s a lazy & noncommittal way to live, instead of verifying your beliefs to be true. i just don’t fall for that bullshit

[TitoFan]

I believe COVID exists. I believe it is a virus. I believe there is more than sufficient evidence, on a global basis, to verify my beliefs. I became ill with the same symptoms as those described by what I consider to be qualified authorities on the subject.

You believe COVID does not exist. You believe it is a hoax being perpetuated by the world's population for whatever reason. You do not accept the data presented by any authorities on the matter.

I will never be able to convince you (nor do I want to) of my way of thinking. I owe you nothing in terms of proof, evidence, or whatever else you'd like to call it.

You will never be able to convince me (nor do probably want to) of your way of thinking. You owe me nothing in terms of proof, evidence, or whatever else you'd like to call it.

As such, further discussions of this matter are frankly, pointless.

Have a nice day.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

i’m not trying to impress anyone by highlighting your logical fallacies. i’m highlighting the logical fallacies you are using

larry used an ad hominem fallacy to focus on my maturity & skills to understand the fallacies i am using to avoid doing any rational thinking myself, instead of focusing on the topic of discussion, which is proving covid is real

you are making a presumption about the statistics you provided as being known. did you complete them yourself, asking each person? or are you just repeating something you’ve seen & been told?

an appeal to authority fallacy does not only refer to an influential figure, it also includes real and pertinent intellectual authorities. i asked you to provide the proof have gotten from these highly educated people in pertinent fields that you have verified so i can also verify that proves your claim. you have provided no proof that you yourself have verified & have tried to misrepresent what an appeal to authority fallacy is

i said i won’t go as far as saying you’re using a red herring fallacy. there is no need for examples, just provide the proof that your belief is real

you said you were feeling generous & i felt i had been generous in my response. but when i use the word it’s pretentious and grandiose, irrelevant & an attempt to sound patient

pointing out your fallacies & faulty reason is not horse shit & is not the other way around. what fallacies have you pointed out from myself?

there is no debate. you believe something is real & i am asking you to prove it

you don’t have to prove anything to me but until you do you only hold a belief

“Do you know where you were born? How? Where is the proof of that? Do you know who your parents are? How? Where is your proof of that? Whatever you learned in science, math, and the other subject matter you must have taken in school... did you personally perform experiments to verify each and every one?”

these are all red herrings & strawman arguments. our topic of discussion is that you believe covid is real & I am asking you to prove it

labelling me a conspiracy theorist is not how one conducts an honest discussion, it’s a psychological tactic. you haven’t provided any proof that you have personally verified for me to dismiss. i am not asking for what much more educated people than yourself accept, i am asking you to provide the proof that you have verified yourself from these people that i can also verify that proves your claim is real. it seems you are the one just accepting what you’ve been told instead of verifying it, because it’s easy, it seems you’re not thinking for yourself & have instead been told what to think, that’s a lazy & noncommittal way to live, instead of verifying your beliefs to be true. i just don’t fall for that bullshit

Totally agree, def a shitload of ad hominems, red herrings, straw man, logical fallacies, appeals to "authority" (those are perhaps more off the charts than any of them LMFAO) and syllogistically unsound conclusions