Andre Ward DESERVED a Canelo fight!

[Spicoli]

Random sighting but I don't think there was a soul alive who wanted or expected Cotto to actually fight Golovkin. We all knew where Cotto was heading with that belt and it was straight to Canelo who was fighting his 4th catchweight in 5 fights. Golovkin would have muttered Cotto. On Ward I'm just not sure where Canelo was supposed to fight him weight wise. Ward bounced 168 to 175 when Canelo was still being called "green" vs Mayweather and not even cracking 160.

[TIC]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

[TIC]

@TIC , I don’t want to take the piss because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and yours usually are pretty on the mark. But what makes you think Canelo KO’s Ward ?

andre would be the b side, he wouldn't be allowed his dirty tactics against canelo & would be forced to fight. canelo would hurt him to the body before knocking him out late. the corner might have had to save andre

[Primo Carnera]

@TIC , I don’t want to take the piss because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and yours usually are pretty on the mark. But what makes you think Canelo KO’s Ward ?

andre would be the b side, he wouldn't be allowed his dirty tactics against canelo & would be forced to fight. canelo would hurt him to the body before knocking him out late. the corner might have had to save andre

Well that’s one view. But Ward never lost a fight from 11 years of age till the end of his career, and never looked like getting KO’d.
And he wasn’t the A side in all those fights. You earn the right.

[Master]

@TIC , I don’t want to take the piss because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and yours usually are pretty on the mark. But what makes you think Canelo KO’s Ward ?

andre would be the b side, he wouldn't be allowed his dirty tactics against canelo & would be forced to fight. canelo would hurt him to the body before knocking him out late. the corner might have had to save andre

Well that’s one view. But Ward never lost a fight from 11 years of age till the end of his career, and never looked like getting KO’d.
And he wasn’t the A side in all those fights. You earn the right.

Even if Canelo was allowed special cow meat, altered gloves and weight stipulations that are in his favour he would never knock out Ward.

[Denilson3.0]

In Football / Soccer there is an old adage “the first five yards in your head” meaning that they could could read things a little bit faster, had a better understanding of what was happening before it happened, that's a description I think fits Ward quite well, he just saw and understood the pattern of the fight before his opponent did and capitalized on every advantage he saw.

He is an inaugural super 6 winner and one of the last truly top fighters from the old US boxing program days when Kenny Adams was involved and he was the last USA gold medalist at an Olympics (But I actually think he lost that fight)..

But he was boring and dirty. I mean, he almost sterilized Kovalev with that combo to the balls.



His entire gameplan revolved around clinching and dirty tactics, which was called his fantastic 'inside game', which was potshot single jab, rush in with his head, clinch, mix in some elbows, headbutts and lowblows and rinse and repeat.

I'm not denying he was a good boxer, but he only fought with hometown refs and judges for a VERY good reason. In a sense Ward was a hustler, his whole style was based around nullifying his opponent however he could, and that rarely led to exciting fights. Shame him and Calzaghe didn't fight as I think Calzaghe would have beaten him due to his output.

There is a strong argument that Ward wouldn't even get in the top 10 of SMW of the last 30 years. I'd be far from confident that Ward could beat RJJ, Toney, Calzaghe, Hopkins, McCallum, Benn, Eubank, McClellan, Canelo, GGG.

There's a case to say that Ward would get beat by them all.

But there is also a case to say that Ward could beat most of them. You just never truly know with undefeated fighters

BUT

• Being undefeated is not that important
• Being undefeated, when you fought nobody... is worthless
• Being undefeated, when you fought everybody... is rare, and exceptiona

There is a reason he retired all early (I mean what top boxer retires at 33 nowadays ?) at LHW he didn't want to get exposed by all the killers (Beterbiev) that were coming up in the division.

[TIC]

@TIC , I don’t want to take the piss because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and yours usually are pretty on the mark. But what makes you think Canelo KO’s Ward ?

andre would be the b side, he wouldn't be allowed his dirty tactics against canelo & would be forced to fight. canelo would hurt him to the body before knocking him out late. the corner might have had to save andre

Well that’s one view. But Ward never lost a fight from 11 years of age till the end of his career, and never looked like getting KO’d.
And he wasn’t the A side in all those fights. You earn the right.

andre sure looked unsteady after darnell dropped him & he wouldn't be getting up if canelo landed a right like sergei did

[Primo Carnera]

@TIC , I don’t want to take the piss because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and yours usually are pretty on the mark. But what makes you think Canelo KO’s Ward ?

andre would be the b side, he wouldn't be allowed his dirty tactics against canelo & would be forced to fight. canelo would hurt him to the body before knocking him out late. the corner might have had to save andre

Well that’s one view. But Ward never lost a fight from 11 years of age till the end of his career, and never looked like getting KO’d.
And he wasn’t the A side in all those fights. You earn the right.

andre sure looked unsteady after darnell dropped him & he wouldn't be getting up if canelo landed a right like sergei did

Canelo was half their size. In this era, he’s great. In other eras, he’s a blown up LMW / MW, who only fights at SMW Because the juice stops him getting any lighter.

[TIC]

"Canelo was half their size"

what?

are we talking canelo at his best v andre at his best? or eleven year olds or whatever era's you're on about? best v best canelo puts andre to bed early

[Primo Carnera]

"Canelo was half their size"

what?

are we talking canelo at his best v andre at his best? or eleven year olds or whatever era's you're on about? best v best canelo puts andre to bed early

Yep, you heard right. Canelo is 5 foot 8” tops. He started off as a Light Middleweight or maybe even Welterweight.
Ward is at least 6 foot, maybe taller and was a Light Heavyweight and came down to Super Middleweight.
Canelo at his best v Ward at pretty much any time of his career from becoming a World Champ onwards.
Canelo is decent, and in this era very good. But he is nowhere near Ward’s level at SMW or LHW.

[Primo Carnera]

And btw, Ward totally fucked up his career. 32 fights. He should’ve had at least 10 more .

[Spicoli]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

[TIC]

"Canelo was half their size"

what?

are we talking canelo at his best v andre at his best? or eleven year olds or whatever era's you're on about? best v best canelo puts andre to bed early

Canelo at his best v Ward at pretty much any time of his career from becoming a World Champ onwards.

yeah canelo from the second ggg fight sleeps andre at any point of his career

[TIC]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

well by your reasoning then canelo v david b was just never in the cards. i'm fully aware of the eight hundred k step aside money. the step aside offer came from team miguel, it wasn't ggg's idea. if ggg refused miguel would have just dropped the belt, which basically happened anyway because miguel refused to pay the sanctioning fees. what's your excuse for sergio?

let's go back a step. if sergio fights ggg & ggg demolishes sergio thus becoming champion. it could have completely changed history. does miguel sac up & go for the vaunted middleweight title v ggg at that point? as for canelo's catchweights, one was requested of him from floyd, the alfredo & erislandy were both one pound over the jr middleweight limit & james had fought over the catchweight limit in his previous fight. sergio & miguel were expected to fight ggg but didn't, canelo did. it would have been interesting

[TitoFan]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

This... is what makes me the objective fight fan that I am.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

Go back to your convoluted "what ifs" which are harder to follow than one of Trump's speeches on windmills or the COVID virus.