Andre Ward DESERVED a Canelo fight!

[TIC]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

well by your reasoning then canelo v david b was just never in the cards. i'm fully aware of the eight hundred k step aside money. the step aside offer came from team miguel, it wasn't ggg's idea. if ggg refused miguel would have just dropped the belt, which basically happened anyway because miguel refused to pay the sanctioning fees. what's your excuse for sergio?

let's go back a step. if sergio fights ggg & ggg demolishes sergio thus becoming champion. it could have completely changed history. does miguel sac up & go for the vaunted middleweight title v ggg at that point? as for canelo's catchweights, one was requested of him from floyd, the alfredo & erislandy were both one pound over the jr middleweight limit & james had fought over the catchweight limit in his previous fight. sergio & miguel were expected to fight ggg but didn't, canelo did. it would have been interesting

[TitoFan]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

This... is what makes me the objective fight fan that I am.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

Go back to your convoluted "what ifs" which are harder to follow than one of Trump's speeches on windmills or the COVID virus.

[TIC]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

[TitoFan]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

You can mention catchweights all you want. Doesn't change the fact that Canelo wanting to drain Badou Jack for a cruiserweight title fight is one of the most chickenshit moves in boxing history.

But don't take my word for it. Read for yourself.

https://www.boxingscene.com/badou-ja...clause--175475

"Badou Jack: I Won't Be Facing Canelo Next; They Want Fight At 180, Plus Rehydration Clause"


Drain the guy 20 pounds... PLUS... a rehydration clause. And Ginger's got the nerve to call it a cruiserweight title fight. A title he would've never defended... because Ginger is all about the trinket.

Meanwhile, Badou himself told Ginger he should fight David Benavidez.


It's telling that you should continue to defend the chickenshit moves of the most coddled fighter in boxing history.

None of the other Mexican champions before or since have ever reached for trinkets just for the sake of the damn trinkets... all sportsmanship be damned.

You're just like the other casuals of today.

[TitoFan]

[TIC]

david b's moved up

[TIC]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

You can mention catchweights all you want. Doesn't change the fact that Canelo wanting to drain Badou Jack for a cruiserweight title fight is one of the most chickenshit moves in boxing history.

But don't take my word for it. Read for yourself.

https://www.boxingscene.com/badou-ja...clause--175475

"Badou Jack: I Won't Be Facing Canelo Next; They Want Fight At 180, Plus Rehydration Clause"


Drain the guy 20 pounds... PLUS... a rehydration clause. And Ginger's got the nerve to call it a cruiserweight title fight. A title he would've never defended... because Ginger is all about the trinket.

Meanwhile, Badou himself told Ginger he should fight David Benavidez.


It's telling that you should continue to defend the chickenshit moves of the most coddled fighter in boxing history.

None of the other Mexican champions before or since have ever reached for trinkets just for the sake of the damn trinkets... all sportsmanship be damned.

You're just like the other casuals of today.

this is all only alleged by badou. have you got a copy of the official proposal? badou weighed 32 pounds more than canelo in their previous fights. i guess you'd be good with canelo v tank by that reasoning

at what weight division would a fight at 180 pounds be in titofan? doh. doesn't matter if canelo defended the title because he would have fought for it within the divisions weight limit

just like miguel & sergio not fighting the biggest threat ggg as it was just not in the cards, sadly canelo v david b doesn't seem to be in the cards. david b has moved up & i think you said he's moved on, maybe you should do the same. david b's got a very good fight coming up next

emanuel navarrete says hi

you're trying to hide that you're one of the biggest casuals on here

[TitoFan]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

You can mention catchweights all you want. Doesn't change the fact that Canelo wanting to drain Badou Jack for a cruiserweight title fight is one of the most chickenshit moves in boxing history.

But don't take my word for it. Read for yourself.

https://www.boxingscene.com/badou-ja...clause--175475

"Badou Jack: I Won't Be Facing Canelo Next; They Want Fight At 180, Plus Rehydration Clause"


Drain the guy 20 pounds... PLUS... a rehydration clause. And Ginger's got the nerve to call it a cruiserweight title fight. A title he would've never defended... because Ginger is all about the trinket.

Meanwhile, Badou himself told Ginger he should fight David Benavidez.


It's telling that you should continue to defend the chickenshit moves of the most coddled fighter in boxing history.

None of the other Mexican champions before or since have ever reached for trinkets just for the sake of the damn trinkets... all sportsmanship be damned.

You're just like the other casuals of today.

this is all only alleged by badou. have you got a copy of the official proposal? REALLY? You want to go there?


badou weighed 32 pounds more than canelo in their previous fights. i guess you'd be good with canelo v tank by that reasoning

at what weight division would a fight at 180 pounds be in titofan? doh. doesn't matter if canelo defended the title because he would have fought for it within the divisions weight limit

This is just one of those times where all there is to say is that... IF YOU'RE OK WITH THAT... there's nothing else to say.

just like miguel & sergio not fighting the biggest threat ggg as it was just not in the cards, sadly canelo v david b doesn't seem to be in the cards. david b has moved up & i think you said he's moved on, maybe you should do the same. david b's got a very good fight coming up next

emanuel navarrete says hi

you're trying to hide that you're one of the biggest casuals on here

At least try to be original.

It's clear you're at a loss for real defenses when you so shamelessly grasp at straws.

1. You revert to your modus operandi of asking for documented proof.

2. You're apparently ok with Ginger wanting to drain a cruiserweight to the bottom of the division, COMPLETE with rehydration clauses. Again... the most chickenshit move in the history of boxing.

3. You mask your fanboyism by regurgitating the labels that apply strictly to you.

Beyond sad... it's pathetic.

[TIC]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

You can mention catchweights all you want. Doesn't change the fact that Canelo wanting to drain Badou Jack for a cruiserweight title fight is one of the most chickenshit moves in boxing history.

But don't take my word for it. Read for yourself.

https://www.boxingscene.com/badou-ja...clause--175475

"Badou Jack: I Won't Be Facing Canelo Next; They Want Fight At 180, Plus Rehydration Clause"


Drain the guy 20 pounds... PLUS... a rehydration clause. And Ginger's got the nerve to call it a cruiserweight title fight. A title he would've never defended... because Ginger is all about the trinket.

Meanwhile, Badou himself told Ginger he should fight David Benavidez.


It's telling that you should continue to defend the chickenshit moves of the most coddled fighter in boxing history.

None of the other Mexican champions before or since have ever reached for trinkets just for the sake of the damn trinkets... all sportsmanship be damned.

You're just like the other casuals of today.

this is all only alleged by badou. have you got a copy of the official proposal? REALLY? You want to go there?


badou weighed 32 pounds more than canelo in their previous fights. i guess you'd be good with canelo v tank by that reasoning

at what weight division would a fight at 180 pounds be in titofan? doh. doesn't matter if canelo defended the title because he would have fought for it within the divisions weight limit

This is just one of those times where all there is to say is that... IF YOU'RE OK WITH THAT... there's nothing else to say.

just like miguel & sergio not fighting the biggest threat ggg as it was just not in the cards, sadly canelo v david b doesn't seem to be in the cards. david b has moved up & i think you said he's moved on, maybe you should do the same. david b's got a very good fight coming up next

emanuel navarrete says hi

you're trying to hide that you're one of the biggest casuals on here

At least try to be original.

It's clear you're at a loss for real defenses when you so shamelessly grasp at straws.

1. You revert to your modus operandi of asking for documented proof.

2. You're apparently ok with Ginger wanting to drain a cruiserweight to the bottom of the division, COMPLETE with rehydration clauses. Again... the most chickenshit move in the history of boxing.

3. You mask your fanboyism by regurgitating the labels that apply strictly to you.

Beyond sad... it's pathetic.

1, so only badou's word to go by then? nothing from canelo's side?

2, badou weighed 32 pounds more than canelo in their previous fights. the bottom of the division would be one seventy six. so you'd be okay with naoya fighting terence at jr middleweight yeh? that's the weight difference bub

3, it's clear that you are little more than a casual these days

"This is just one of those times where all there is to say is that... IF YOU'RE OK WITH THAT... there's nothing else to say."

where did i say i was okay with it? just stating facts that fighting at 180 is still within the cruiserweight limt. doh

[Spicoli]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

well by your reasoning then canelo v david b was just never in the cards. i'm fully aware of the eight hundred k step aside money. the step aside offer came from team miguel, it wasn't ggg's idea. if ggg refused miguel would have just dropped the belt, which basically happened anyway because miguel refused to pay the sanctioning fees. what's your excuse for sergio?

let's go back a step. if sergio fights ggg & ggg demolishes sergio thus becoming champion. it could have completely changed history. does miguel sac up & go for the vaunted middleweight title v ggg at that point? as for canelo's catchweights, one was requested of him from floyd, the alfredo & erislandy were both one pound over the jr middleweight limit & james had fought over the catchweight limit in his previous fight. sergio & miguel were expected to fight ggg but didn't, canelo did. it would have been interesting

It's not my reasoning it's what actually happened and what was always going to happen, and what all parties involved were steering to and leading fans into loud and clear. I'd say Benavidez-Canelo was much more in the cards based on oh I dunno, them actually being in the same division for years, Benavidez holding the top spot and interim and fans and media actually calling for it . Unlike Cotto-Golovkin. And what happened to that "I want the champ to fight the biggest threat" call out you speak of. Or per usual is Canelo above being called out and labeled ducker as with Cotto/Martinez.

Excuse for Sergio for what? A 39 year old Sergio with clearly knees shot to pieces would have met the exact same fate as Cotto vs Golovkin. Probably worse. And as already stated, no Cotto does not fight Golovkin in his first venture above 154 as we all know he would have been demolished, at any point. That entire middleweight/not middleweight period was bs. It was all about being able to say multi division champ. But I'll ask the question again...does Canelo go after Golovkin right off if he would have dusted Cotto, or does he need the 4 catchweights and 2 years to do that? Yep Canelo loved his catchweights. It was a running joke when people would say they're fighting at "Caneloweight" having fought 7 in roughly 3.5 years. And glad you caught the Angulo one. As it was Canelo who would/could not make the weight.

[TitoFan]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

well by your reasoning then canelo v david b was just never in the cards. i'm fully aware of the eight hundred k step aside money. the step aside offer came from team miguel, it wasn't ggg's idea. if ggg refused miguel would have just dropped the belt, which basically happened anyway because miguel refused to pay the sanctioning fees. what's your excuse for sergio?

let's go back a step. if sergio fights ggg & ggg demolishes sergio thus becoming champion. it could have completely changed history. does miguel sac up & go for the vaunted middleweight title v ggg at that point? as for canelo's catchweights, one was requested of him from floyd, the alfredo & erislandy were both one pound over the jr middleweight limit & james had fought over the catchweight limit in his previous fight. sergio & miguel were expected to fight ggg but didn't, canelo did. it would have been interesting

It's not my reasoning it's what actually happened and what was always going to happen, and what all parties involved were steering to and leading fans into loud and clear. I'd say Benavidez-Canelo was much more in the cards based on oh I dunno, them actually being in the same division for years, Benavidez holding the top spot and interim and fans and media actually calling for it . Unlike Cotto-Golovkin. And what happened to that "I want the champ to fight the biggest threat" call out you speak of. Or per usual is Canelo above being called out and labeled ducker as with Cotto/Martinez.

Excuse for Sergio for what? A 39 year old Sergio with clearly knees shot to pieces would have met the exact same fate as Cotto vs Golovkin. Probably worse. And as already stated, no Cotto does not fight Golovkin in his first venture above 154 as we all know he would have been demolished, at any point. That entire middleweight/not middleweight period was bs. It was all about being able to say multi division champ. But I'll ask the question again...does Canelo go after Golovkin right off if he would have dusted Cotto, or does he need the 4 catchweights and 2 years to do that? Yep Canelo loved his catchweights. It was a running joke when people would say they're fighting at "Caneloweight" having fought 7 in roughly 3.5 years. And glad you caught the Angulo one. As it was Canelo who would/could not make the weight.

If memory serves me correctly, it was avoiding a showdown against GGG that the Canelo camp came up with the term "marinating."

Canelo wasn't (cough) ready to fight GGG at the time... but somewhere in there he managed to go up even higher in weight to fight the mummy... Chavez Jr.

Canelo's career has been chockfull of calculations, marinating, clause-making, etc.

If nothing else, he gets a PhD on navigating around the biggest risks, while smelling like a rose to his fanatical fanbase.

[TIC]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

well by your reasoning then canelo v david b was just never in the cards. i'm fully aware of the eight hundred k step aside money. the step aside offer came from team miguel, it wasn't ggg's idea. if ggg refused miguel would have just dropped the belt, which basically happened anyway because miguel refused to pay the sanctioning fees. what's your excuse for sergio?

let's go back a step. if sergio fights ggg & ggg demolishes sergio thus becoming champion. it could have completely changed history. does miguel sac up & go for the vaunted middleweight title v ggg at that point? as for canelo's catchweights, one was requested of him from floyd, the alfredo & erislandy were both one pound over the jr middleweight limit & james had fought over the catchweight limit in his previous fight. sergio & miguel were expected to fight ggg but didn't, canelo did. it would have been interesting

It's not my reasoning it's what actually happened and what was always going to happen, and what all parties involved were steering to and leading fans into loud and clear. I'd say Benavidez-Canelo was much more in the cards based on oh I dunno, them actually being in the same division for years, Benavidez holding the top spot and interim and fans and media actually calling for it . Unlike Cotto-Golovkin. And what happened to that "I want the champ to fight the biggest threat" call out you speak of. Or per usual is Canelo above being called out and labeled ducker as with Cotto/Martinez.

Excuse for Sergio for what? A 39 year old Sergio with clearly knees shot to pieces would have met the exact same fate as Cotto vs Golovkin. Probably worse. And as already stated, no Cotto does not fight Golovkin in his first venture above 154 as we all know he would have been demolished, at any point. That entire middleweight/not middleweight period was bs. It was all about being able to say multi division champ. But I'll ask the question again...does Canelo go after Golovkin right off if he would have dusted Cotto, or does he need the 4 catchweights and 2 years to do that? Yep Canelo loved his catchweights. It was a running joke when people would say they're fighting at "Caneloweight" having fought 7 in roughly 3.5 years. And glad you caught the Angulo one. As it was Canelo who would/could not make the weight.

i said "i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat", your response was "Well it was just never in the cards", your words, your reasoning. you saying david b v canelo was much more in the cards is not taking into account canelo's plans. he had a contract for dmitry & then ggg three. needed surgery, took a lighter fight & was looking for the rematch with dmitry, made an offer but it was refused, leading canelo to look elsewhere. that timeline took us through to the jermell & demetrius fights. david b moved up next fight & was then given the choice to keep his light heavy or super middle interim belt & he chose light heavy, giving up the chance to form a mandatory shot. i agree david b was probably the most deserving of a shot at canelo but he wasn't canelo's biggest threat for me, that was david m. miguel was the champion & had a clear number one threat. canelo was the champion but there was no clear number one. i had been saying for years those guys should have fought each other to establish a clear number one challenger

sergio was thirty nine & had bad knees from serhiy dzinziruk to martin murray? sergio was the champion & ggg was the clear biggest threat. i guess it's only canelo who has to fight who you perceive as his biggest threat & for others it's just oh well just not in the cards. i think canelo fights ggg if he beat sergio or miguel. he fought ggg within a year of defending a jr middleweight belt. be honest about the catchweights. canelo didn't request all of them. fact is canelo was still defending a jr middleweight belt only a year before fighting ggg

[Spicoli]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

well by your reasoning then canelo v david b was just never in the cards. i'm fully aware of the eight hundred k step aside money. the step aside offer came from team miguel, it wasn't ggg's idea. if ggg refused miguel would have just dropped the belt, which basically happened anyway because miguel refused to pay the sanctioning fees. what's your excuse for sergio?

let's go back a step. if sergio fights ggg & ggg demolishes sergio thus becoming champion. it could have completely changed history. does miguel sac up & go for the vaunted middleweight title v ggg at that point? as for canelo's catchweights, one was requested of him from floyd, the alfredo & erislandy were both one pound over the jr middleweight limit & james had fought over the catchweight limit in his previous fight. sergio & miguel were expected to fight ggg but didn't, canelo did. it would have been interesting

It's not my reasoning it's what actually happened and what was always going to happen, and what all parties involved were steering to and leading fans into loud and clear. I'd say Benavidez-Canelo was much more in the cards based on oh I dunno, them actually being in the same division for years, Benavidez holding the top spot and interim and fans and media actually calling for it . Unlike Cotto-Golovkin. And what happened to that "I want the champ to fight the biggest threat" call out you speak of. Or per usual is Canelo above being called out and labeled ducker as with Cotto/Martinez.

Excuse for Sergio for what? A 39 year old Sergio with clearly knees shot to pieces would have met the exact same fate as Cotto vs Golovkin. Probably worse. And as already stated, no Cotto does not fight Golovkin in his first venture above 154 as we all know he would have been demolished, at any point. That entire middleweight/not middleweight period was bs. It was all about being able to say multi division champ. But I'll ask the question again...does Canelo go after Golovkin right off if he would have dusted Cotto, or does he need the 4 catchweights and 2 years to do that? Yep Canelo loved his catchweights. It was a running joke when people would say they're fighting at "Caneloweight" having fought 7 in roughly 3.5 years. And glad you caught the Angulo one. As it was Canelo who would/could not make the weight.

i said "i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat", your response was "Well it was just never in the cards", your words, your reasoning. you saying david b v canelo was much more in the cards is not taking into account canelo's plans. he had a contract for dmitry & then ggg three. needed surgery, took a lighter fight & was looking for the rematch with dmitry, made an offer but it was refused, leading canelo to look elsewhere. that timeline took us through to the jermell & demetrius fights. david b moved up next fight & was then given the choice to keep his light heavy or super middle interim belt & he chose light heavy, giving up the chance to form a mandatory shot. i agree david b was probably the most deserving of a shot at canelo but he wasn't canelo's biggest threat for me, that was david m. miguel was the champion & had a clear number one threat. canelo was the champion but there was no clear number one. i had been saying for years those guys should have fought each other to establish a clear number one challenger

sergio was thirty nine & had bad knees from serhiy dzinziruk to martin murray? sergio was the champion & ggg was the clear biggest threat. i guess it's only canelo who has to fight who you perceive as his biggest threat & for others it's just oh well just not in the cards. i think canelo fights ggg if he beat sergio or miguel. he fought ggg within a year of defending a jr middleweight belt. be honest about the catchweights. canelo didn't request all of them. fact is canelo was still defending a jr middleweight belt only a year before fighting ggg

Precisely. Canelo made other plans...Canelo entered into other contracts...Canelo took other lighter fight...Canelo was looking elsewhere...simply put, Canelo did many things but fighting the fighter who was arguably deemed his number one threat, well that was not his plan. A fighter can't go around boasting about being the "I can do whatever I want" champ and then blame others for the decisions he opted for.

Yeh I'm not rolling into the rabbit hole of relitigating the Martinez and Golovkin fight that never was some 15+ years ago. But yes as far as the Murray fight, basically after the Chavez fight, Martinez was clearly on a bad slide physically, had multiple surgeries and his knees were toast. And as much as I'd like to agree that Canelo would fight Golovkin if the Cotto-Golovkin fight took place (as my original scenario stated, rather than Cotto v Geale defense)...I really cannot. There's no way Canelo would have fought Golovkin right away either. As he simply did not. That's what actually happened. He stalled out and literally vacated the belt instead of fighting Golovkin and fought a welterweight in a "middleweight" defense. Took two years to get to Golovkin.

I'm completely honest about the catchweights happening. Did he or did he not have those catchweight bouts? They did actually occur, no? I never said he did or did not request them nor does it really matter tbh. Not my point. Canelo once again made his decisions, no one forced him to linger and slow roll into full middleweight. That was his chosen path.

[TIC]

canelo stepped up in weight after becoming undisputed at super middle to fight arguably the best light heavyweight, that fight also came with the ggg fight in the contract. dmitry is a lighter fight than david b? at that time david b was bouncing back from being coke out & blowing weight to lose his title, twice. his bad decisions. if he had of stayed disciplined he would have still had a title when canelo moved back to super middle to unify. david b was fighting the anthony dirrell's & david lemieux's. canelo was challenging at long time light heavyweight champion. david b can't blame others for his bad decisions

so between serhiy dzinziruk to martin murray i guess sergio v ggg was just not in the cards is the excuse

you were the one saying that everything was gearing towards a miguel v canelo fight "hbo targeted" & "golovkin willfully accepted step aside money" & now trying to avoid that to say canelo was stalling out. canelo defended his jr middleweight belt against liam & within a year of that he fought ggg. canelo was still a jr middle until september twenty sixteen, fact

yes canelo had those catchweight fights but they were all his request. canelo fought ggg within a year of defending his jr middleweight belt, sergio & miguel chose to slow roll past ggg. that was their chosen path

[Spicoli]

canelo stepped up in weight after becoming undisputed at super middle to fight arguably the best light heavyweight, that fight also came with the ggg fight in the contract. dmitry is a lighter fight than david b? at that time david b was bouncing back from being coke out & blowing weight to lose his title, twice. his bad decisions. if he had of stayed disciplined he would have still had a title when canelo moved back to super middle to unify. david b was fighting the anthony dirrell's & david lemieux's. canelo was challenging at long time light heavyweight champion. david b can't blame others for his bad decisions

so between serhiy dzinziruk to martin murray i guess sergio v ggg was just not in the cards is the excuse

you were the one saying that everything was gearing towards a miguel v canelo fight "hbo targeted" & "golovkin willfully accepted step aside money" & now trying to avoid that to say canelo was stalling out. canelo defended his jr middleweight belt against liam & within a year of that he fought ggg. canelo was still a jr middle until september twenty sixteen, fact

yes canelo had those catchweight fights but they were all his request. canelo fought ggg within a year of defending his jr middleweight belt, sergio & miguel chose to slow roll past ggg. that was their chosen path

Do you intentionally twist stuff or is it a factory default setting?
You referenced Canelo "took a lighter fight & was looking for the rematch with Dmitry" to which I replied ...Canelo took other lighter fight. As in Charlo or Ryder. So clearly I was not referencing Bivol in relation to Benavidez. Aaaa batta batta batta.

"At the time (when Canelo had fought at 175 and then back for Golovkin III) David b was bouncing back from coked out and blowing weight..." blah etc. Actually no. Benavidez was fully back and taking the wbc interim title the exact month that Canelo took his L to Bivol. The 4 month suspension he served was a full 3+ years prior. After Canelo won Golovkin III, Benavidez had just defeated Plant. Canelo then opted to take on Ryder...the other less threating and beatable interim champ...and blew off #1 Benavidez. Then Canelo takes things to another level of ridiculousness and convinces his gullible fanboys that fighting a Jr middleweight in Charlo was what needed to happen and again blew off #1 Benavidez. It had become obvious and clear to all that Canelo had zero intent of being a "champion fighting his number one threat" as you initially put it.

Your quote>"you were the one saying that everything was gearing towards a miguel v canelo fight "hbo targeted" & "golovkin willfully accepted step aside money" & now trying to avoid that to say canelo was stalling out. canelo defended his jr middleweight belt against liam & within a year of that he fought ggg. canelo was still a jr middle until september twenty sixteen, fact"

And then Canelo out divas Cotto. So what is it "I'm trying to avoid"? And yes, he was stalling out for just under 2 years until Golovkin. To the point of vacating the belt and avoiding the mandatory to buy more time . No step aside money needed, Canelo just said F that right now. Dipping his toe in having it both ways with Amir Khan and Smith ffs. Hardly building to a mega showdown right outa the gate. He was literally wearing a middleweight title and defended it. Shirly if 155 "ducker" Cotto is held to your hypothetical standards vs Golovkin and expected to be a "champion fighting his number one threat" right off, then 155 Canelo could muster up the same expectations as champ without delay. Truth is maybe Cotto and Canelo had far more in common than the fans would like to admit. Canelo should be sending him a Christmas card and forever grateful for that not really a middleweight/middleweight window that it would take him another 3 years to finally hang a legit defense W on.