Andre Ward v these fighters

[TIC]

canelo's chin is much better than andre's. bernard started out at light heavy & only remained at middleweight through dedication like marvin & gennady did. bernard could have remained at middle but there was nothing left for him to do there, so he moved up two weights for the antonio tarver fight

[Primo Carnera]

canelo's chin is much better than andre's. bernard started out at light heavy & only remained at middleweight through dedication like marvin & gennady did. bernard could have remained at middle but there was nothing left for him to do there, so he moved up two weights for the antonio tarver fight

canelo's chin is much better than andre's.

How do we know this? No doubt Canelo has a great chin. We know that because it’s been tested on a number of occasions.
But we don’t know about Ward because quite frankly, I’m not sure he’s ever been tested in that department. He’s never looked uncomfortable in a fight from what I can remember.

[/QUOTE]
bernard started out at light heavy & only remained at middleweight through dedication like marvin & gennady did. [/QUOTE]
And the exact same could be said about Ward.

[/QUOTE] bernard could have remained at middle but there was nothing left for him to do there, so he moved up two weights for the antonio tarver fight[/QUOTE]

Again, the exact same could be said about Ward. Ward beat everyone.
It’s very difficult to surmise about a fighter when he’s never been beat, because you’re in unknown territory. And Ward was unbeaten since he was 11.

[Master]

Ward was hurt in the first fight against Kovalev. He had a bloodied nose in the first round with the jab and knocked down with a right hand in the second round. Ward got up and took the fight to Krusher and dug up a win. If he can do that against an unbeaten and avoided light heavyweight he could do it against Beterbiev.

[TIC]

canelo's chin is much better than andre's. bernard started out at light heavy & only remained at middleweight through dedication like marvin & gennady did. bernard could have remained at middle but there was nothing left for him to do there, so he moved up two weights for the antonio tarver fight

canelo's chin is much better than andre's.

How do we know this? No doubt Canelo has a great chin. We know that because it’s been tested on a number of occasions.
But we don’t know about Ward because quite frankly, I’m not sure he’s ever been tested in that department. He’s never looked uncomfortable in a fight from what I can remember.

bernard started out at light heavy & only remained at middleweight through dedication like marvin & gennady did. [/QUOTE]
And the exact same could be said about Ward.

[/QUOTE] bernard could have remained at middle but there was nothing left for him to do there, so he moved up two weights for the antonio tarver fight[/QUOTE]

Again, the exact same could be said about Ward. Ward beat everyone.
It’s very difficult to surmise about a fighter when he’s never been beat, because you’re in unknown territory. And Ward was unbeaten since he was 11.[/QUOTE]

if andre has never looked uncomfortable to you in a fight then you haven't watched enough of his fights

you said

"Hopkins was a natural LMW/MW only moving up the weights with age"

i disagree with that & pointed out that bernard started out as a light heavy. i think bernard was more a natural light heavyweight

i watched andre lose, although he got the decision. andre's record is also very decptive. his best wins are over overrated carl & mikkel

[Primo Carnera]

canelo's chin is much better than andre's. bernard started out at light heavy & only remained at middleweight through dedication like marvin & gennady did. bernard could have remained at middle but there was nothing left for him to do there, so he moved up two weights for the antonio tarver fight

canelo's chin is much better than andre's.

How do we know this? No doubt Canelo has a great chin. We know that because it’s been tested on a number of occasions.
But we don’t know about Ward because quite frankly, I’m not sure he’s ever been tested in that department. He’s never looked uncomfortable in a fight from what I can remember.

bernard started out at light heavy & only remained at middleweight through dedication like marvin & gennady did.

And the exact same could be said about Ward.

[/QUOTE] bernard could have remained at middle but there was nothing left for him to do there, so he moved up two weights for the antonio tarver fight[/QUOTE]

Again, the exact same could be said about Ward. Ward beat everyone.
It’s very difficult to surmise about a fighter when he’s never been beat, because you’re in unknown territory. And Ward was unbeaten since he was 11.[/QUOTE]

if andre has never looked uncomfortable to you in a fight then you haven't watched enough of his fights

you said

"Hopkins was a natural LMW/MW only moving up the weights with age"

i disagree with that & pointed out that bernard started out as a light heavy. i think bernard was more a natural light heavyweight

i watched andre lose, although he got the decision. andre's record is also very decptive. his best wins are over overrated carl & mikkel[/QUOTE]
This thread intrigues me because it’s truly interesting how 2 people can be at complete ends of the spectrum on a fighter without any personal dislike of a guy.
Trust me, I’ve seen plenty of Ward, and against Kovalev , yeah he went down , but he wasn’t uncomfortable. A bit like when Floyd was stunned by Sugar Shane and went on to dominate that round and the fight.
If BHop was a natural LHW, Then why was all his best work at lower weights? That’s just taking advantage of modern day weigh in techniques etc.
in my mind BHop (and I don’t want to be disrespectful) is a poor man’s Andre Ward. He can smother your work and draw you into his fight , but not like Dre does.
One thing I’ll give Hopkins, is the level of fighter he had to fight throughout his career was way above what Ward had to contend with. But we can say that about most modern day greats we compare with guys from previous eras.
To clarify my opinion of Ward, I think he was a great fighter who potentially could have been an ATG, but his career seriously under achieved , mostly down to him and contractual decisions he made (not unlike Crawford).
But why I think highly of him when comparing him with others is because whatever weaknesses we “think” he might’ve had, it’s all conjecture.
And for the record, his win against Froch doesn’t rank particularly highly for me, that was standard business.
Kessler prime was better imo.

[TIC]

it's all just subjective. the discussion is what keeps the forum interesting

"A bit like when Floyd was stunned by Sugar Shane and went on to dominate that round and the fight"

the difference was floyd went on to dominate the fight. andre should have lost but was given the decision. if that's not uncomfortable i'm not sure what is

"If BHop was a natural LHW, Then why was all his best work at lower weights?"

i answered this already & you replied with "the exact same could be said about Ward". bernard got down & stayed around middle because of his dedication. yes modern day weigh ins helped but he was always talked about as a gym rat who lived the life. i would also argue that some of his best work was done at light heavy, not to mention his advanced age at that stage

"in my mind BHop (and I don’t want to be disrespectful) is a poor man’s Andre Ward"

that's exactly how i see andre. bernard had better defence, he was the better counter puncher, i see barnard as the bigger puncher, better chin, ring iq was pretty close but i give the edge to bernard. this one might surprise but i also think bernard was slightly faster. andre was more athletic

i still wish andre dirrell didn't pull out of the super six. the fight might not have been exciting to watch but a fight between the andre's at that time would have been intriguing to watch

[Primo Carnera]

it's all just subjective. the discussion is what keeps the forum interesting

"A bit like when Floyd was stunned by Sugar Shane and went on to dominate that round and the fight"

the difference was floyd went on to dominate the fight. andre should have lost but was given the decision. if that's not uncomfortable i'm not sure what is

"If BHop was a natural LHW, Then why was all his best work at lower weights?"

i answered this already & you replied with "the exact same could be said about Ward". bernard got down & stayed around middle because of his dedication. yes modern day weigh ins helped but he was always talked about as a gym rat who lived the life. i would also argue that some of his best work was done at light heavy, not to mention his advanced age at that stage

"in my mind BHop (and I don’t want to be disrespectful) is a poor man’s Andre Ward"

that's exactly how i see andre. bernard had better defence, he was the better counter puncher, i see barnard as the bigger puncher, better chin, ring iq was pretty close but i give the edge to bernard. this one might surprise but i also think bernard was slightly faster. andre was more athletic

i still wish andre dirrell didn't pull out of the super six. the fight might not have been exciting to watch but a fight between the andre's at that time would have been intriguing to watch

It’s mad how opposite we are on this. Especially the Bernard/Ward opinions from both of us. I think with Hopkins , I tend to hit a bit of a blind spot . I don’t think I truly studied his prime , and maybe I don’t really appreciate him enough.
And I need to rewatch the Kovalev fight because I think Ward’s “struggles” in this fight are over exaggerated.

[TIC]

there are probably many that don't appreciate bernard. he always had a lot to say & what he was usually saying turned a lot of people off. there is no denying his craft though, i lost count how many times he was considered a big underdog & pulled off the upset & being able to compete at world level at fifty says a lot

i think i had the first andre v sergei fight six rounds each with the knockdown winning sergei the fight, andre took most of the later rounds but he was far from comfortable in that fight. i don't think sergei was the same after that decision went against him, in my opinion it broke something in him