Gaining Position and circling to the right (counter clockwise)

[Austin_B]

Hello, I am interested in getting y'all's input on a foot work pattern I regular find myself in. (The positions I am referring to are shown in the attached image)

Speaking as an orthodox and regarding circling counter clockwise- I am struggling to regain position and initiate circling right (counter clockwise).

I am often finding starting myself in position 1, without seeing a clear way for me to get to position 2 without giving over the initiative. I have found success in going from image 1, to a situation like image 2 by first performing an L-step, which has the effect of retreating from the opponent and moving toward my opponent's left. This works however It leads to me feeling as though I am "on the run" since I am having to retreat every time I simply want to circle right.
If I attempt to simply side step to my right (stepping right with my rear foot, then recovering my stance) I typically have not moved far enough to my right (my opponent's left) to gain position 2, and still remain lined up for their cross and potentially walking into their left hook.

How can I regain position (going from position 1 to position 2) without having to retreat using the L step everytime. What am I missing?
I appreciate any insights y'all have

Shout to Higus from sherdog who I first saw use illustrations like these to demonstrate footwork.

https://i.postimg.cc/pr1pNSd8/Boxing1.png

[Yuzo]

how well do you jab when you go to your right?

[Austin_B]

how well do you jab when you go to your right?

Thank you for your response, I am fairly comfortable moving laterally to the right as well as circling right while jabbing from a mechanics perspective, (though my jab in these scenarios would benefit from having more pop, especially in the case of circling right). From a positioning perspective though, I generally feel that I am going to run into a hook or line myself up for a cross as I am moving laterally to the right. This is amplified against taller opponents how can corral me with a left hook from far away, or if the opponent is standing very square pressing forward.

[Yuzo]

how you jab when you go to your left is you press down on your front foot and swing over the heel of your back foot and you can throw that jab forever and ever. how you jab when you go to your right is you have to stop whenever you want to throw a jab (or your feet will never really be under you) and he gets smart to it. you can't really jab and go to your right synchronously.

and by what you have described you seem to me to be going to your right not to box but to escape. you don't want him to throw his right hand. is that your philosophy? for this i may have some tips.

try to stay out on the perimeter of where his right hand can hit you. you will need to do some boxing to guess where that is.



that should look like this. stay along the perimeter that you shaped out and step back from it when you need to. a step back will create a lot of pull. essentially, whenever you step back what you are really trying to do is pull him to you.

now when you step back you can walk out to your right.



or square up your heels at the top of your step back and skip out to your right.



and you can skip around the ring a lot faster than you can walk around the ring in your stance.



these are escape moves that create more room for you than what is in your picture. and you want to have that spacing because there is still a chance that you can get hit by a right hand when you go to your right since the hip rotation to throw a right hand naturally points that punch in the same direction that you are going.



you shouldn't think that you are safe from a right hand just because you are going to your right.



you still need to have good spacing. but these are all just escape moves. you can make his right hand miss, but what you really want to do is meet his right hand. that is when you are really boxing.

[Austin_B]

how you jab when you go to your left is you press down on your front foot and swing over the heel of your back foot and you can throw that jab forever and ever. how you jab when you go to your right is you have to stop whenever you want to throw a jab (or your feet will never really be under you) and he gets smart to it. you can't really jab and go to your right synchronously.

and by what you have described you seem to me to be going to your right not to box but to escape. you don't want him to throw his right hand. is that your philosophy? for this i may have some tips.

try to stay out on the perimeter of where his right hand can hit you. you will need to do some boxing to guess where that is.



that should look like this. stay along the perimeter that you shaped out and step back from it when you need to. a step back will create a lot of pull. essentially, whenever you step back what you are really trying to do is pull him to you.

now when you step back you can walk out to your right.



or square up your heels at the top of your step back and skip out to your right.



and you can skip around the ring a lot faster than you can walk around the ring in your stance.



these are escape moves that create more room for you than what is in your picture. and you want to have that spacing because there is still a chance that you can get hit by a right hand when you go to your right since the hip rotation to throw a right hand naturally points that punch in the same direction that you are going.



you shouldn't think that you are safe from a right hand just because you are going to your right.



you still need to have good spacing. but these are all just escape moves. you can make his right hand miss, but what you really want to do is meet his right hand. that is when you are really boxing.

Wow! I appreciate the thorough response! These are very instructive, Thank you! I will certainly be practicing these sequences, very clarifying.
In regards to your question, I was not thinking so much in terms of the escape being the goal, but more so trying to move from a position that is 50/50 to one with a more decisive angle. But yes that is true, in an attempt to secure an angle I have been first escaping with the L-step to my right, than trying to reengage at a new relative position, such that I am no longer centered between their two feet.
Aside from L-stepping out and to my right, what I will also do when I find myself in position 1 is to circle left as shown in the picture below (moving from position 1 to position 3).
https://i.postimg.cc/KYyNfxLq/boxing-1-to-3.png

However I prefer circling to the right, so I am looking to find someway to go back on offense but circling to my right, rather than seeming to have to accept circling left due to our initial position. I am just wondering how I can quickly get back on offense and circling to the right when I am starting from position 1. Another position which also try to gain , but also have trouble acquiring is shown below. In position 4, I am also circling right , but have more of an inside position.
https://i.postimg.cc/13MGGwmt/boxing-1-to-4.png
For additional context, when my opponent is standing bladed, as on a skateboard, I find it much easier to retake an angle moving right. However when my opponent is more square, I can hardly ever seem to get back on the angle moving right, I tend end up in their line of fire if I insist on trying to get back on the angle to the right.
Essentially, I am rarely able to get my opponent and I circling right. We end up circling left the majority of the time, and I am trying to explore other options for movement.

Your point demonstrated in the clip with Daniel Dubois and Antony Joshua is definitely well taken! wow, great demonstration.

[Yuzo]

to fix that what you probably want is a step around. a step around (which is just a hop step) can get you there more suddenly. but its sort of a party trick. that is, whenever you step around him he can step around you too.



he can get smart to it. therein is your conundrum. you have to get to your position faster than he can get to his position and reset everything back. but to get there faster than he can you need some kind of a break away action, like a step around, but even that can be completely counteracted too.

you can't completely take away his right hand going to your right, but staying out on the end of his right hand and going to your right can greatly compound how hard that punch can be to throw at you. you can't completely stop him from restoring his and yours position, but whenever you do gain that position on him, and you will, even when you aren't deliberately trying to, the punch that you should want to throw is your hook inside his right elbow.



that should be a great punch for you.

Another position which also try to gain , but also have trouble acquiring is shown below. In position 4, I am also circling right , but have more of an inside position.
https://i.postimg.cc/13MGGwmt/boxing-1-to-4.png

that looks like you got the ring cut off on you. when that happens it creates a lot of open space for you to move into and in this case that open space is to your left. how comfortable are you doing that?

[Austin_B]

to fix that what you probably want is a step around. a step around (which is just a hop step) can get you there more suddenly. but its sort of a party trick. that is, whenever you step around him he can step around you too.



he can get smart to it. therein is your conundrum. you have to get to your position faster than he can get to his position and reset everything back. but to get there faster than he can you need some kind of a break away action, like a step around, but even that can be completely counteracted too.

you can't completely take away his right hand going to your right, but staying out on the end of his right hand and going to your right can greatly compound how hard that punch can be to throw at you. you can't completely stop him from restoring his and yours position, but whenever you do gain that position on him, and you will, even when you aren't deliberately trying to, the punch that you should want to throw is your hook inside his right elbow.



that should be a great punch for you.

Another position which also try to gain , but also have trouble acquiring is shown below. In position 4, I am also circling right , but have more of an inside position.
https://i.postimg.cc/13MGGwmt/boxing-1-to-4.png

that looks like you got the ring cut off on you. when that happens it creates a lot of open space for you to move into and in this case that open space is to your left. how comfortable are you doing that?

Wow, great info here. Thank you so much for sharing. The Hatton video shows this step around you are speaking about quite well. Okay wow, I have only used the hop step in forward advancing, or retreating. I never put together that the "hopping" footwork I am seeing people do in close, is that same, skipping, hop step mechanic.


That hook inside the elbow is great, that is a new one for me as well. Very cool, I only ever thought about throwing the left hook outside the elbow. Yes, your description of having the ring cut off on me is accurate. In regards to your question, I am comfortable while circling jabbing left, although I think my toolset is limited in how to make stuff happen off of that jab. I suppose I have just been quite focused on getting the angle circling right, as it seemed more defensively sound given that you circling towards the opponent's back, however the clip with Joshua provides good caveat that notion, and underscores the importance of good foot position if circling to my right.

Maybe I am trying to force the angle going right to much if I am having to cover so much distance. Could one hop step from a position facing and orthodox opponent's right side (open side) , all the way to a position facing their left side (closed side)? Or would such a distance and cutting across their center like that in range be a mistake? I noticed in the video, Hatton is performing a step around while starting from a position in the of his opponent center, then moving to either side, while I was trying to find some maneuver from an angle on their right all the way to an angle on their left.
Alternatively, perhaps I should just develop more skill use the angle on their right (open side) instead of trying to force the angle on their left.
Thank you again for everything you have shared, very helpful!

[Yuzo]

you are basically trying to get around his shoulder the same way that you'd drive a car around a bend in the road. the difference is the bend in the road is always moving around with you too. when you are further away you can skip around his shoulder faster than you can walk there in your stance (but this puts both of your feet in the air and they have to come back down to the ground to punch) and when you are near him you can step around (a hop step) to get around his shoulder more suddenly. step arounds work the best on a guy that is standing still. when you think you got a guy standing still, say, to rest, thats your cue.

you are basically jockeying for position. you won't always be in position, but when you do gain your position back, and you will, put your hook inside his right elbow.

Maybe I am trying to force the angle going right to much if I am having to cover so much distance. Could one hop step from a position facing and orthodox opponent's right side (open side) , all the way to a position facing their left side (closed side)? Or would such a distance and cutting across their center like that in range be a mistake? I noticed in the video, Hatton is performing a step around while starting from a position in the of his opponent center, then moving to either side, while I was trying to find some maneuver from an angle on their right all the way to an angle on their left.

you seem to me to be trying to force your way through instead of just taking what he is giving you and using all of that big open space. my advice is to take the open space. when you get that much room you can basically reset the ring and space everything back out the way you want.

Alternatively, perhaps I should just develop more skill use the angle on their right (open side) instead of trying to force the angle on their left.

a jab circling to your left is a punch that makes boxing very, very easy. should that appeal to you the best advice that i can ever give you is to get really good at throwing that punch.

[Austin_B]

you are basically trying to get around his shoulder the same way that you'd drive a car around a bend in the road. the difference is the bend in the road is always moving around with you too. when you are further away you can skip around his shoulder faster than you can walk there in your stance (but this puts both of your feet in the air and they have to come back down to the ground to punch) and when you are near him you can step around (a hop step) to get around his shoulder more suddenly. step arounds work the best on a guy that is standing still. when you think you got a guy standing still, say, to rest, thats your cue.

you are basically jockeying for position. you won't always be in position, but when you do gain your position back, and you will, put your hook inside his right elbow.

Maybe I am trying to force the angle going right to much if I am having to cover so much distance. Could one hop step from a position facing and orthodox opponent's right side (open side) , all the way to a position facing their left side (closed side)? Or would such a distance and cutting across their center like that in range be a mistake? I noticed in the video, Hatton is performing a step around while starting from a position in the of his opponent center, then moving to either side, while I was trying to find some maneuver from an angle on their right all the way to an angle on their left.

you seem to me to be trying to force your way through instead of just taking what he is giving you and using all of that big open space. my advice is to take the open space. when you get that much room you can basically reset the ring and space everything back out the way you want.

Alternatively, perhaps I should just develop more skill use the angle on their right (open side) instead of trying to force the angle on their left.

a jab circling to your left is a punch that makes boxing very, very easy. should that appeal to you the best advice that i can ever give you is to get really good at throwing that punch.

Thank you for the advice regarding taking the open space, and really working on my left circling jab-I appreciate it! The earlier tip provided on the jab have already proven useful. Much appreciated!