Top Ten Heavyweights of All Time

[Master]

Duke McKenzie said Usyk deserves to be in the all-time top 20 [best] heavyweights in the world, but we don't know where he sits in that top 20,"

"Your Fraziers, Foremans, Alis - then you have Lennox Lewis, your Tysons, Riddick Bowe, your Evander Holyfields, there's a lot of guys that would've given Usyk a lot of trouble that aren't the real big names."

Spencer Oliver chimed in: "Someone like Joe Frazier, who was relentless, but was a little bit predictable... Someone like Usyk who had that skill set, and you're talking about size and all that, you have to put Usyk as a massive favourite over Frazier.

"Usyk puts his name in that argument, even with the Muhammad Ali's, because of what he's done.

McKenzie concluded: "That's what I'm saying, he's in the top 20!"

https://talksport.com/boxing/3436880...-muhammad-ali/

[Mark TKO]

Duke McKenzie said Usyk deserves to be in the all-time top 20 [best] heavyweights in the world, but we don't know where he sits in that top 20,"

"Your Fraziers, Foremans, Alis - then you have Lennox Lewis, your Tysons, Riddick Bowe, your Evander Holyfields, there's a lot of guys that would've given Usyk a lot of trouble that aren't the real big names."

Spencer Oliver chimed in: "Someone like Joe Frazier, who was relentless, but was a little bit predictable... Someone like Usyk who had that skill set, and you're talking about size and all that, you have to put Usyk as a massive favourite over Frazier.

"Usyk puts his name in that argument, even with the Muhammad Ali's, because of what he's done.

McKenzie concluded: "That's what I'm saying, he's in the top 20!"

https://talksport.com/boxing/3436880...-muhammad-ali/

totally get this view ! It's very difficult - especially given his contemporaries

AJ, Dubois and Chisora are nowhere near an all time top ten - and Fury is his best win and that was razor thin the first time and I still say the second could have gone either way despite the four points the judges gave. We have to be thankful we got the last 20 seconds of round 9 in the first fight to give us something to differentiate them (and without it Fury would have won the first one). I would love to see a third and Fury getting KTFO now.

I get sick of other, less knowledgeable casuals, thinking Tyson in his prime would have destroyed Ali. Tyson wouldn't have got anywhere near him and would have looked an embarrassed pathetic, sorry figure by the later rounds

so for me it's

1) Ali
2) Lewis
3) Louis
4) Holmes
5) Foreman
6) Frazier
7) Johnson (basing that of course on what I've read not what I know !)
Holyfield
9) Liston
10) It's tough here - any from Usyk, Tyson, Dempsey, Bruno, Marciano etc etc....

And then again I think a prime Fury gives anyone on that list major problems - as I've said before imo the Fury who beat Wlad and Wilder II beats Usyk.

I can't see what Usyk can do to get himself any higher really - there's no challenges there

Top four easy to select though !

[Primo Carnera]

I’ll have to have a good think about it, but what I will say is ……If Usyk was British, the majority of this forum would have him in their top 5.

[Mark TKO]

I'm trying to find a reason to put Usyk higher. I can't. It's the standard of opposition and comprehensive wins. Fury is the only one on his list anywhere near that all time top ten. Not his fault.

Has he knocked any heavies out apart from Dubois?

As far as boxing IQs, ring craftsmanship go though etc he's right up there.

[Mark TKO]

And undisputed to me is just politics. We all knew he was better than Dubois. Yeah Lewis did it but again politics allowed it to happen - then not for however many years.

[Master]

Evander Holyfied was undisputed at 2 weights and beat Mike Tyson as well as an old Holmes.

However, he was inconsistent as champ and lost to Bowe, Moorer and Lennox during his best years.

I think Evander would have won a great fight against Usyk at cruiserweight but lost to him at heavyweight.

[TitoFan]

Good thread.

Well... emboldened by Primo's list with Carnera at #1 (proving there are no wrong choices here) ... I hereby submit my own list (complete with inaccuracies and biases)


1. Ali (slam dunk choice)
2. Louis (ditto)
3. Lewis (In his peak as dominant as any fighter out there. Avenged both of his knockout losses.)
4. Foreman (A beast. Beat many fighters by fear alone. Knocked out some impressive opponents. Came back years later to regain the title.)
5. Wlad (He could be boring as hell. But like Foreman, beat many fighters by fear alone. After Louis, the longest reign as defending champion.)
6. Frazier (Only lost to the very best: Ali and Foreman. But he beat Ali in The Fight of the Century in 1971.)
7. Marciano (Didn't see him on any lists, but deserves a spot. Something to be said for retiring undefeated.)
8. Usyk (Tough to ignore. He's beaten the best the division has to offer, which admittedly isn't a golden era of heavyweight boxing.)
9. Tyson (Another beast. Brought many fans to boxing with his style. At his peak could arguably beat anybody.)
10. Holmes (YEP... I'm biased. Never liked this guy cause he talks way too much. First class whiner. Was lucky to come in as Ali was wasting away as a fighter. He's lucky I put him in at #10.)

[Spicoli]

Evander Holyfied was undisputed at 2 weights and beat Mike Tyson as well as an old Holmes.

However, he was inconsistent as champ and lost to Bowe, Moorer and Lennox during his best years.

I think Evander would have won a great fight against Usyk at cruiserweight but lost to him at heavyweight.

I dunno, the hypotheticals and subjectivity is always magnified in atg list as stated earlier. I mean sure 'old Holmes' but also old Holmes who had just schooled Mercer off his destruction of Morrison. A gold medalist Mercer too . Mercer had just dropped his belt rather than fight Moorer. Thought he had hit the easy lotto with old Holmes, oops.

To each their own of course. But while Moorer will forever be known as the man who shared Foreman history while blinking at the lights, or was detonated by Tua later in career, or a certified terror train at lt hvy who never got his big shot, he wasn't completely crap either. Probably fought the most disciplined fight of his career with Holyfield behind his power jab...and it still should have only been a draw if not for the asinine round 2 scoring. Every single hvy has had their own inconsistency. I mean both Lewis and Wlad were poleaxed at their top and honestly imo by guys lesser than a top form Moorer. Lost to Bowe, then beat him. Lost to Moorer, then beat him. Lost to Lennox, then improved much and gave a very competitive fight. Respect to Lewis. I look at level of consistent top comp moreso I guess. Not running up standard defenses of belts we also dismiss as fans monthly. That's how I see Holyfield big picture. We can asterisk guys with points in respected careers, pick apart records as has been said. But Holyfield has the distinction of defeating and competing with 4 of the named greats on many fans ATG lists. If Tyson makes the cut for some. And people forget it was Tyson who got out of not 1 but 2 contracted fights with Holyfield prior to finally meeting. And I still say Holyfield beats him at any point . That's always been an unwarranted shadow over him I think.

Usyk-Holyfield would have been absolutely fantastic, and half inclined to agree. Can see Usyk mobility, upper body and rapid jab giving Holyfield hell. But also see combination punching and forced exchanges plus for Evander. Also think that as far as his much respected heavyweight run, Usyk with Fury or AJ or Dubois has not faced the same mental make up and overall resolve he would with Holyfield. Honestly two of the hardest wills and minds to compliment the division last two eras. We'll never know just great to have Usyk in company and almost feels like torch passed.

[Primo Carnera]

So here goes. It could change tomorrow, but this is how I see it tonight.

Carnera
Louis
Ali
Lewis
Holyfield
Usyk
Tyson
Holmes
Foreman
W. Klitschko

[Primo Carnera]

So here goes. It could change tomorrow, but this is how I see it tonight.

Carnera
Louis
Ali
Lewis
Holyfield
Usyk
Tyson
Holmes
Foreman
W. Klitschko

I did say that my opinion could change from one day to the next, and looking at this, I feel that I may have put Foreman a little low for what he achieved, but the basis of that was that while he achieved incredible things, you go through his record and the guys he beat weren’t stellar apart from one or two exceptions (the way he destroyed Norton and Frazier).
And if I use the same mindset, then maybe I have Usyk a bit high because none of the guys he beat are anywhere near this level INCLUDING FURY! Of course, that’s not his fault. But it just shows how difficult it is.