Looking back at old controversial fights.... (Updated) Jones vs. Tarver I

[Bookkeeper]

Ok, I thought the Morales-Barrera discussion went well. Good points made on both sides. We definitely need to examine Morales-Barrera II at some point, but I'd like to switch things up right now. I don't really want to look at the same two fighters twice in a row. We'll look at their second fight down the road.

For our second fight, we'll look at a fight that should be easier to score. The fight that I want to select third is going to bring lots of arguments (at least I think it will), so for our second fight we'll do one that we should be able to score in agreement.

March 13, 1999- Madison Square Garden
Lennox Lewis (34-1, WBC Heavyweight Champion) vs. Evander Holyfield (36-3, WBA & IBF Heavyweight Champion) for the Undisputed Heavyweight Championship
The three scorecards were 115-113 Holyfield, 116-113 Lewis, 115-115 Draw

My scorecard:

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Lewis | 10 | 10 | 10| 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 118
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
Holyfield | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 110

118-110 Lewis, 10 rounds to 2. I could've scored it 11-1 or even 12-0. Holyfield looked incredibly slow and did hardly anything the whole fight. Lewis didn't even look like he was trying that hard. He peppered Holyfield with jabs and right hands all night. Terrible decision by the judges.

It would be better if you put this in a fresh new thread for people to post on.

[ICB]

ill watch it tommorow and tell you my scorecard but i disagree with lewis winning 3rd round i think that was holyfields best round in the entire fight

[GAME]

My scorecard:

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Lewis | 10 | 10 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 117
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
Holyfield | 9 | 9 | 10| 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10| 9 | 112


I had it 5 rounds to Lewis . He boxed cautiously throughout but still did enough IMO . He hurt Evander in round two but didnt take advantage when Evander was blocking on the ropes with his leg raised . The 3rd was a big effort from Evander and he took it on aggression alone but pretty much after that it was all Lennox. He got lazy around the 9th , 10th and 11th and I punished him for that with my scoring even though Evander didnt do too much himself . Lewis closed the show with first class boxing in the 12th and a right hand in the closing seconds through the middle seemed to hurt Evander . 117-112 Lewis but he could have got the K.O if he utilised his size .

BTW great thread ! Cool clicks to everyone whos posted

[SweetPea]

Most people (including Lederman) score the 3rd for Holyfield. But even in that round, Lewis landed more punches and at a higher percentage.

[SweetPea]

Are people having a hard time finding this fight to download??

Because if so, we can just skip this one and do a fight that's easier to find.

[spanky-banky]

I've been thinking of starting a new thread and wanted to gauge interest before I did so....

I wanted to do something where each week I'd name a big fight from the last 10-15 years, and then we'd all go back and watch the fight and post our round-by-round scoring.

I know there have been plenty of threads in the past about fights with close decisions, but it's mostly just people saying, "I thought this guy got robbed," or "the judges were corrupt," etc.
I want the new thread to be a place where you have to actually go back, watch the fight, and post a detailed scorecard to back up your argument.

I figure even if we just get 12-15 posters who would commit to watch the selected fight each week, it would make for some interesting discussion, especially during weeks where there are no fights on HBO, Showtime, etc.

If anyone's interested in doing something like this, post here, and if there's enough interest, I'll choose the first fight and start a thread for it tomorrow. I'd only pick fights that are easily available either on youtube or easy to find on the internet.

i watched that fight last week and decided to score it..so, i scored it 115-112 for lewis,7 rds to 4 with 1 even..lewis still clearly won,but it wasnt as one sided as HBO called it. lewis fought to causious,he should have know better than to leave his fate in the hands of incompetent and bias judges.for gods sake,he had holyfield badly hurt in i cant remember which rd,but he just toyed with evender when had he been more agressive,he could have koed the past his prime holyfield.Thats right i remember now,lewis had holyfield hurt against the ropes and did nothing except paw at him with a pathetic left jab when he should have just let his big guns blaze.ooh well ,he still won the fight

[spanky-banky]

Ok, I thought the Morales-Barrera discussion went well. Good points made on both sides. We definitely need to examine Morales-Barrera II at some point, but I'd like to switch things up right now. I don't really want to look at the same two fighters twice in a row. We'll look at their second fight down the road.

For our second fight, we'll look at a fight that should be easier to score. The fight that I want to select third is going to bring lots of arguments (at least I think it will), so for our second fight we'll do one that we should be able to score in agreement.

March 13, 1999- Madison Square Garden
Lennox Lewis (34-1, WBC Heavyweight Champion) vs. Evander Holyfield (36-3, WBA & IBF Heavyweight Champion) for the Undisputed Heavyweight Championship
The three scorecards were 115-113 Holyfield, 116-113 Lewis, 115-115 Draw

My scorecard:

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Lewis | 10 | 10 | 10| 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 118
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
Holyfield | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 110

118-110 Lewis, 10 rounds to 2. I could've scored it 11-1 or even 12-0. Holyfield looked incredibly slow and did hardly anything the whole fight. Lewis didn't even look like he was trying that hard. He peppered Holyfield with jabs and right hands all night. Terrible decision by the judges.

It would be better if you put this in a fresh new thread for people to post on.

its funny how different people see the fight differently.I scored it 115-112for lewis which i think was a fair acessment.I mean ,you didnt even give enander the 3rd round?why not?He landed the cleaner punches,keep busy,and had lewis wobbled.I think 99% of the planet earth gave holy that round,quite fairly!...Maybe you should apply for a job with HBO,there score card was just as ridiculous as yours.No offence,but be fair,evender won 4 rounds to 7 and one even on my very unofficial score card.If i remember correctly ,i gave holyfield rds-3-9-10-11 and cant remember wich one was even,but im not going to watch it again anyways,cause it was a pretty forgetable fight!

[SweetPea]

its funny how different people see the fight differently.I scored it 115-112for lewis which i think was a fair acessment.I mean ,you didnt even give enander the 3rd round?why not?He landed the cleaner punches,keep busy,and had lewis wobbled.I think 99% of the planet earth gave holy that round,quite fairly!...Maybe you should apply for a job with HBO,there score card was just as ridiculous as yours.

In the 3rd round, Lewis landed more punches, and at a higher percentage. Holyfield just seemed to be incredibly active in that round because he did next to nothing in the first two rounds. He was so inactive in the first 2, that it made him seem overly active in the 3rd just because he let his hands go for a few combinations.
Holyfield landed one decent combo early on in that round that did knock Lewis back and forced him to cover up, but Lewis steadied himself and outworked Evander the rest of the round.
Watch the fight, at the end of the 3rd, Holyfield walks back to the corner looking pretty deflated, because he had released his big flurry, yet still Lewis had outlanded him.
Who won the 3rd is certainly debatable (that's why we have this thread), but it's hardly "ridiculous" to score it for Lewis.
By the same token, it's not ridiculous to have the fight scored as a lopsided victory for Lewis. He dominated that fight. Look at the round-by-round compubox numbers, they are staggering.

[killersheep]

My scorecard:

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Lewis | 10 | 10 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 117
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
Holyfield | 9 | 9 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 111



This fight was a total schooling, what's the next one?

Once again Sweetpea, this is a top idea CC

[spanky-banky]

its funny how different people see the fight differently.I scored it 115-112for lewis which i think was a fair acessment.I mean ,you didnt even give enander the 3rd round?why not?He landed the cleaner punches,keep busy,and had lewis wobbled.I think 99% of the planet earth gave holy that round,quite fairly!...Maybe you should apply for a job with HBO,there score card was just as ridiculous as yours.

In the 3rd round, Lewis landed more punches, and at a higher percentage. Holyfield just seemed to be incredibly active in that round because he did next to nothing in the first two rounds. He was so inactive in the first 2, that it made him seem overly active in the 3rd just because he let his hands go for a few combinations.
Holyfield landed one decent combo early on in that round that did knock Lewis back and forced him to cover up, but Lewis steadied himself and outworked Evander the rest of the round.
Watch the fight, at the end of the 3rd, Holyfield walks back to the corner looking pretty deflated, because he had released his big flurry, yet still Lewis had outlanded him.
Who won the 3rd is certainly debatable (that's why we have this thread), but it's hardly "ridiculous" to score it for Lewis.
By the same token, it's not ridiculous to have the fight scored as a lopsided victory for Lewis. He dominated that fight. Look at the round-by-round compubox numbers, they are staggering.

ok my bad! i probably went a bit over board with the ridiculous statment,and yes lewis dominated with his left jab,but in the 3rd lewis did land more jabs but holfield landed more meaniful shots... i see ur argument,but when i score a fight, i take alot into acount like agression,who landed the bigger bombs,who was busyer,who backed who up and so on, and i gave holy field that round for such reasons......Now if it was an amature fight,lewis would have easily won the 3rd,but in the pros we have to take alot more into account

[Lords Gym]

Ok, I thought the Morales-Barrera discussion went well. Good points made on both sides. We definitely need to examine Morales-Barrera II at some point, but I'd like to switch things up right now. I don't really want to look at the same two fighters twice in a row. We'll look at their second fight down the road.

For our second fight, we'll look at a fight that should be easier to score. The fight that I want to select third is going to bring lots of arguments (at least I think it will), so for our second fight we'll do one that we should be able to score in agreement.

March 13, 1999- Madison Square Garden
Lennox Lewis (34-1, WBC Heavyweight Champion) vs. Evander Holyfield (36-3, WBA & IBF Heavyweight Champion) for the Undisputed Heavyweight Championship
The three scorecards were 115-113 Holyfield, 116-113 Lewis, 115-115 Draw

My scorecard:

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Lewis | 10 | 10 | 10| 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 118
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
Holyfield | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 110

118-110 Lewis, 10 rounds to 2. I could've scored it 11-1 or even 12-0. Holyfield looked incredibly slow and did hardly anything the whole fight. Lewis didn't even look like he was trying that hard. He peppered Holyfield with jabs and right hands all night. Terrible decision by the judges.

It would be better if you put this in a fresh new thread for people to post on.

its funny how different people see the fight differently.I scored it 115-112for lewis which i think was a fair acessment.I mean ,you didnt even give enander the 3rd round?why not?He landed the cleaner punches,keep busy,and had lewis wobbled.I think 99% of the planet earth gave holy that round,quite fairly!...Maybe you should apply for a job with HBO,there score card was just as ridiculous as yours.No offence,but be fair,evender won 4 rounds to 7 and one even on my very unofficial score card.If i remember correctly ,i gave holyfield rds-3-9-10-11 and cant remember wich one was even,but im not going to watch it again anyways,cause it was a pretty forgetable fight!

#2 I pretty much agree with you . The thing is, most of the tall heavyweights are just kind of boring and forgettable in general.. I never find myself looking for old Lewis ,or Klitchko fights , most heavyweights over 6”4 are just boring. plain and simple. They do just enough to win and that’s it. Never really risk anything.. Just makes for a horrible watch over all .

[spanky-banky]

BUT I THINK I SPEAK FOR EVERONE ON HERE WHEN I SAY, LEWIS CLEARLY WON AND IT WAS FUN DEBATING............SO WHATS THE NEXT FIGHT?

HOW ABOUT HAGLER V'S LEONARD! I SCORED IT FOR LEONARD BUT ILL HAVE TO WATCH IT AGAIN IN DETAIL AND SCORE IT

[ICB]

i have this fight on tape somewhere cant find it though but from what i remember i gave lewis first 2 rounds i gave holyfield 3rd round and maybe 4th then lewis dominated until 9th and holyfield won 2 rounds with one even then lewis won 12 th round so ill try do score card from what i remember

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Lewis | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 116
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
Holyfield | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 113


i cant remember which round i had even it was either round 9 10 or 11 i had even so ill just say 11 but i dont think anyone on planet unless there something wrong with them had this fight a draw

[ICB]

Ok, I thought the Morales-Barrera discussion went well. Good points made on both sides. We definitely need to examine Morales-Barrera II at some point, but I'd like to switch things up right now. I don't really want to look at the same two fighters twice in a row. We'll look at their second fight down the road.

For our second fight, we'll look at a fight that should be easier to score. The fight that I want to select third is going to bring lots of arguments (at least I think it will), so for our second fight we'll do one that we should be able to score in agreement.

March 13, 1999- Madison Square Garden
Lennox Lewis (34-1, WBC Heavyweight Champion) vs. Evander Holyfield (36-3, WBA & IBF Heavyweight Champion) for the Undisputed Heavyweight Championship
The three scorecards were 115-113 Holyfield, 116-113 Lewis, 115-115 Draw

My scorecard:

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | total
Lewis | 10 | 10 | 10| 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 118
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
Holyfield | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 9 | 110

118-110 Lewis, 10 rounds to 2. I could've scored it 11-1 or even 12-0. Holyfield looked incredibly slow and did hardly anything the whole fight. Lewis didn't even look like he was trying that hard. He peppered Holyfield with jabs and right hands all night. Terrible decision by the judges.

It would be better if you put this in a fresh new thread for people to post on.

its funny how different people see the fight differently.I scored it 115-112for lewis which i think was a fair acessment.I mean ,you didnt even give enander the 3rd round?why not?He landed the cleaner punches,keep busy,and had lewis wobbled.I think 99% of the planet earth gave holy that round,quite fairly!...Maybe you should apply for a job with HBO,there score card was just as ridiculous as yours.No offence,but be fair,evender won 4 rounds to 7 and one even on my very unofficial score card.If i remember correctly ,i gave holyfield rds-3-9-10-11 and cant remember wich one was even,but im not going to watch it again anyways,cause it was a pretty forgetable fight!

#2 I pretty much agree with you . The thing is, most of the tall heavyweights are just kind of boring and forgettable in general.. I never find myself looking for old Lewis ,or Klitchko fights , most heavyweights over 6”4 are just boring. plain and simple. They do just enough to win and that’s it. Never really risk anything.. Just makes for a horrible watch over all .

agreed lords i can think of few exciting 6 foot 4 and over that are quite exciting

riddick bowe
andrew golota from what ive seen from his looks to be quite exciting fighter

[killersheep]

At some point I'd like for us to do Mayweather Castillo I, before Castillo - Hatton