UFO's & Ghosts

[Kev]

Science has proof, they have methods and facts to back their claims up. All religion has is a book with a guy who can walk on water. Now guys tell me this, if a guy came up to you today and said "i can walk on water", would you believe it? Just like i told one of those religious door knockers the other day, i respect peoples right to have religion, i just dont believe in them. Even had him agreeing that a guy walking on water is pretty rediculous and lets just think. Back in those times people were pretty god damn gullable, they thought the earth was flat, witches existed and medicine in some cases was thought to be a trade of witch craft. Now lets add a guy who can heal the blind and walk on water. Where are these things today? They dont exist. IMO if you wanna believe in jesus than F*** why are aliens hard to believe in, theyre more likely to be out there on a distant planet with superior technology than some guy walking around this earth with the power to walk on F****** water.

Hmm Jesus was able to walk on water because he was God. If he was an ordinary man then obviously he wouldn't be able to walk on water but the whole point of the bible is that God Himself came to earth in the form of Jesus. If he was God then of course he could walk on water, if he wasn't then of course of he couldn't.

It's a matter of faith not of intellect. By the way people wern't any more gullible back then than they are now. They had witches and demons we have aliens and ghosts.

And the earth being flat was only a westernised view pre Columbus, ancient man knew the earth was round, indeed the bible says the earth is round in Isiah, even the Quran describes the earth as being a similar shape to an egg.

If I do recall, copernicus was almost put to death by the church when he brought forth the (correct) idea of heliocentricizm. Because the church disagreed with that (how dare anybody defy those put in power by "god" ) they refused to accept it. Chinese armies fired at a lunar eclipse because they thought a dragon was eating the sun. They felt the bubonic plague was caused by "god"'s wrath for their immorality. The claim that we are just as naive as them back then is a joke. They were afraid of "god" and felt that he indeed controlled every aspect of their lives.

I'd like to bring your attention to another bible verse you haven't addressed yet bilbo. The one where somebody has a pissing contest with somebody else over whose god is real. Somebody believes in the "god" and another believed in bhaal. Supposedly they set up two piles of logs to be lit. The first one was to be lit by bhaal and the guy calls for him to light the logs and it never happens. The "loyal" "god" follower then douses his pile with water (or he digs a trench and puts the logs in a pool kinda thing can't remember for sure) and calls for "god" to light them and he does successfully eventhough the man had wet the logs twice. Why doesn't he show himself and his alledged powers like that anymore. Cleary he "used to" show off his stuff to prove himself to non-believers.

The church throughout history has been a often corrupt and always worldly institution populated by men with their own agendas and desire for power. I don't see how people committing wrongs in the name of God disproves God any more than nations waging war over oil disproves the existence of oil.

God, like oil, like money is one of the most powerful forces in this world and people constantly fight with each other over their own claims to God, and ultimately power. For Copernicus to be relevent at all in proving or disproving the existence of God then his discoveries would have to be at variance with what was written in the bible, they are not.

As for people being more gullible in the past, again they really wern't. Your examples could just as easiliy be replicated today, just watch any television channel and you'll hear stories of people who were abducted by aliens, had out of body experiences, saw a ghostly vision or had a premonition of the future. As for the plague being caused by God's wrath, I actually think much of the world's ills are caused by sin, not a direct act of vengeance by a cruel God but rather the inevitable consuequences of slipping further and futher away from God.

Just because we can understand weather patterns and climate change doesn't mean there isn't a more powerful force behind it.

If I move my arm scientists can explain the action in terms of muscle contraction, electrical impulses from the brain, blood flow etc but they cannot detect the overriding reason for my arm moving, namely that I willed it.

Besides even in the current age even scientists can be guilty of stupid thinking at times. Just a few years the National Geographic went with a front page article, of a fossil dinosaur bird that proved finally and beyond all doubt that birds were descended from therapods (dinosaurs), it turned out to be a deliberate hoax by a Chinese fisherman who had carefully composited two seperate fossils together.

Much of the evidence presented for evolution at the Scopes Monkey trial consisted of Piltdown man, a fake, Nebraska man, actually the tooth of a pig and Ernest Haekels pictures of Embryonic Recapitutalion, again faked, so it seems that even scientists fall for stupid things sometimes

Finally regarding the contest between Elisha and the prohpets of Baal, Elisha was a prophet sent by God for that specific purpose. It was a miraculous intervention and demonstration of God's power. If you actually read the bible you would see that it is not full of miraculous events that happen all the time, but that they are extremely rare often seperated by hundreds of years.

You may think that ancient man saw miracles on a daily basis but the bible doesn't report this. The world is devoid of miracles until those times when God intervenes. Jesus had just as many doubters in his own age trust me.