To me Calzaghe still ain't that good.

[DaxxKahn]

Look i am not question there greatness Cut all i am saying is what i think would happen if they fought Joe at SM.

Not Questioning....

Khan i did not say there were not special but i think Joe could have a shot to beat them and if you disagree o well.

You did not say they were not special fighters at those weights...Is this not your post I just copied?...from page 3 of this thread?....

I think people think of Roy Jones as a Ali of 168 and he only had a few fights there and Tony was good not unbeatable. I think Joe would have a chance to beat both of them lets not forget that a past it prime Joe made Kess look like a fool I doubt past it Roy or Tony could. Who knows Hell i will go with Joe to win i not following the coward i think Joe can pull off a win against both not like i can be proved wrong so what the hell

You said Calzaghe was past his prime and made Kessler look like a fool last night?....You are the only one who thinks Kessler looked like a fool because Kessler looked DAMN!!! good and made a DAMN!!! good account of himself.....

Then you go on to say Toney or Jones could not beat Kessler in the same fashion....

And Roy and Tony were in different weight classes for most of there careers just depends on how you look at who they beat and when they did it and what weight class they were at. Do i think Joe could go up as much weight as Roy and Tony did and still win i am not sure if he could. But at SM i think Joe has a good shot to win and do not think i am putting Roy and Tony down i am not Khan just talking about if they fought Joe what i think would happen thats it. So just thought i clear up anything you might of misunderstood what i was trying to say.

I answered a question that was stated in the beginning of the thread...Do I think Calzaghe could have beaten Roy Jones JR at 168 the answer is NO!! Period!!!!

Your not putting down Jones or Toney yet you stated several times Jones did not accomplish much at 168 and why does everyone think so highly of him at that weight...not in 1 post not in 2 post but almost every post up until the one where Mick said to question them is Absurd.....

PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU POST!!!!

Don't say you never said Jones was not great at SMW..when you stated he did not even spend enough time there to be considered a top SMW...

And I stated clearly in several threads that be it Calzaghe, Toney, Barkley, or the three bears...I have never seen a better fighter at 168 lbs then Roy Jones....At 169 Roy Jones was absolute perfection...Not a single flaw in his game...He could fight with his hands behind his back practically...His speed, his power and his ring generalship was something to marvel at.....I did not ask you to agree...I don't need you to agree...it is not just my opinion...

I also stated several times on the boards that Calzaghe is the best SMW champion to ever hold the title...The length of his reign and defenses speak for themselves...I spoke of Jones as a whole!! His skill at 168 can be compared to that of a WW Ray Robinson or Prime ALI....


Point out one fight at 168 he showed any flaws in his game?...Show me where any fighter at 168 even gave the hint he was beatable while facing him?...One guy who hurt him?...even stunned him?.....Hell we will go with an easy one....show me one fighter he faced at SMW that managed to land more then 2 combos in a row on him.....

[hackey100]

I really can't believe the shit that gets posted on here sometimes. Big sad click to the OP. What the hell can Calzaghe do to prove that he is probably the most gifted SMW in the sports history. Look clearly at what he has displayed. He has unbelievable hand speed, a great defence and clearly a granite chin and all backed up with plenty of power, especially earlier in his career. Even RJJ at his peak would at best have won a very close points decision. Toney?, you fucking idiot I like Calzaghe as a fighter, even if I believe he has been a bit slow to make the big fights, but one thing is clear to me, at 35 he has to be past his peak by a fair bit, yet still is able to win very well against somebody of Kessler's class.

How does posing the question of toney make him an idiot?

The subject as a whole does..

But if you disregard toney then you havent done your homework

I'm not disregarding Toney as a fighter of great capabilities, but as has been pointed out, his attitude and conditioning for fights is a big reason why his legacy is not what it should have been.

[Wacko3205]

I doubt it he would have beaten any of them, certainly not the 1st three. How good is he ? I still don't think he's that great, good, but not great. He beat Kessler (over rated) Lacy (over rated). For me he needs to beat one of Pavlik, Taylor, Hopkins or Winky Wright
He never really beaten a really BADDDDD fighter IMO. A real marquee fighter.

Totally ignorant post.

As rarely as I do this...you deserve a & I think you'll get a shitload more.

Calling Kessler over rated proves your'e a hater.

For you he needs to beat a bunch of blown up middles & a light middleweight?

One that has yet to prove himself 100% (Pavlik), one that just got blown out by the one that has yet to prove himself (Taylor), one that is a HOF that he actually needs to fight in Hopkins, & the other that just lost when he moved up...that one being Wright?

You my friend make about as much sense as Chinese Arithmatic to a baboon.

Joe has proven himself by utterly destroying two of the great hopes of 168lbs & has snuffed out the rest of the opposition like a candle wick. Neither Kess or Lacy were over rated...they just got handled by a true champion.

Deal with it.

[DaxxKahn]

I doubt it he would have beaten any of them, certainly not the 1st three. How good is he ? I still don't think he's that great, good, but not great. He beat Kessler (over rated) Lacy (over rated). For me he needs to beat one of Pavlik, Taylor, Hopkins or Winky Wright
He never really beaten a really BADDDDD fighter IMO. A real marquee fighter.

Totally ignorant post.

As rarely as I do this...you deserve a & I think you'll get a shitload more.

Calling Kessler over rated proves your'e a hater.

For you he needs to beat a bunch of blown up middles & a light middleweight?

One that has yet to prove himself 100% (Pavlik), one that just got blown out by the one that has yet to prove himself (Taylor), one that is a HOF that he actually needs to fight in Hopkins, & the other that just lost when he moved up...that one being Wright?

You my friend make about as much sense as Chinese Arithmatic to a baboon.

Joe has proven himself by utterly destroying two of the great hopes of 168lbs & has snuffed out the rest of the opposition like a candle wick. Neither Kess or Lacy were over rated...they just got handled by a true champion.

Deal with it.

Chinese arithmatic to a Baboo...LMAO that was a good one Wack I owe you a CC in 24....;


Now on to business.....You know it is not often I disagree with you but Lacey was over rated....He was no bum so do not get me wrong but he was not the maching everyone made him out to be...A good fighter though and at the time was with out a question the best opponent in the division for Joe...

This has all become pointless....Calzagh has beaten everyone who resides in the weight class soundly,,I can not understand what all the commotion is about

Give the man his respect and let it be....I could see if Calzaghe was some arrogant cuss with an attitude...Or some guy who wlaked around looking for smaller opponents but he has not...he has fought all legit SMW's.....

I still refuse to be a fan until he retires or runs Warren over with his car but hey one has nothing to do with the other....

[Preme]

I doubt it he would have beaten any of them, certainly not the 1st three. How good is he ? I still don't think he's that great, good, but not great. He beat Kessler (over rated) Lacy (over rated). For me he needs to beat one of Pavlik, Taylor, Hopkins or Winky Wright
He never really beaten a really BADDDDD fighter IMO. A real marquee fighter.

Totally ignorant post.

As rarely as I do this...you deserve a & I think you'll get a shitload more.

Calling Kessler over rated proves your'e a hater.

For you he needs to beat a bunch of blown up middles & a light middleweight?

One that has yet to prove himself 100% (Pavlik), one that just got blown out by the one that has yet to prove himself (Taylor), one that is a HOF that he actually needs to fight in Hopkins, & the other that just lost when he moved up...that one being Wright?

You my friend make about as much sense as Chinese Arithmatic to a baboon.

Joe has proven himself by utterly destroying two of the great hopes of 168lbs & has snuffed out the rest of the opposition like a candle wick. Neither Kess or Lacy were over rated...they just got handled by a true champion.

Deal with it.

Chinese arithmatic to a Baboo...LMAO that was a good one Wack I owe you a CC in 24....;


Now on to business.....You know it is not often I disagree with you but Lacey was over rated....He was no bum so do not get me wrong but he was not the maching everyone made him out to be...A good fighter though and at the time was with out a question the best opponent in the division for Joe...

This has all become pointless....Calzagh has beaten everyone who resides in the weight class soundly,,I can not understand what all the commotion is about

Give the man his respect and let it be....I could see if Calzaghe was some arrogant cuss with an attitude...Or some guy who wlaked around looking for smaller opponents but he has not...he has fought all legit SMW's.....

I still refuse to be a fan until he retires or runs Warren over with his car but hey one has nothing to do with the other....

what about if he hires terry marsh to have another crack at doing warren in?

[Fenster]

That break done you good, Daxx

[Wacko3205]

You said Calzaghe was past his prime and made Kessler look like a fool last night?....You are the only one who thinks Kessler looked like a fool because Kessler looked DAMN!!! good and made a DAMN!!! good account of himself.....

I only read the opening statement of this post...& responded to that...then I read your post...as I usually do & saw the above quote. Someone really said that?

Wow. You know...it's the differences in opinions & the various love of different fighters that make this forum tick...but sometimes...it's bullshit like the above statement that I think ruins boxing for some fans & newbs.

How can anyone think that Calzaghe looked old or past it...& how the hell did Kessler look like a fool? That's just gotdamned disrespectful & wrong.

Kessler looked fantastic last night. I would go on to say that that is the best he has ever looked...but your'e not going to look as dominate against Calzaghe as you did against Andrade, Beyer, or Mundine.

Both of these men gave their all & brought forth one of the most exciting fights that I have seen in a long time. This fight was just as impressive as Taylor Pavlik...but I actually liked it better because it was so damned competitive & high paced.

[DaxxKahn]

You said Calzaghe was past his prime and made Kessler look like a fool last night?....You are the only one who thinks Kessler looked like a fool because Kessler looked DAMN!!! good and made a DAMN!!! good account of himself.....

I only read the opening statement of this post...& responded to that...then I read your post...as I usually do & saw the above quote. Someone really said that?

Wow. You know...it's the differences in opinions & the various love of different fighters that make this forum tick...but sometimes...it's bullshit like the above statement that I think ruins boxing for some fans & newbs.

How can anyone think that Calzaghe looked old or past it...& how the hell did Kessler look like a fool? That's just gotdamned disrespectful & wrong.

Kessler looked fantastic last night. I would go on to say that that is the best he has ever looked...but your'e not going to look as dominate against Calzaghe as you did against Andrade, Beyer, or Mundine.

Both of these men gave their all & brought forth one of the most exciting fights that I have seen in a long time. This fight was just as impressive as Taylor Pavlik...but I actually liked it better because it was so damned competitive & high paced.

Yeah that was Mr140....He started stirring the pot because I stated that the 168 pound version of Roy Jones may have been one of the All time greatest fighters to ever step in the ring.....I did not say he was the greatest 168lb champ of all time because with 7 or 8 fights at that weight he wasn't champ long enough...I was speaking as Jones 168lb skill level in general...The 140 starts with Jones was over rated, he was not that good,

Magic Man and I started speaking of James Toney and it depends on what version and what kind of mood he was in if he faced Joe at 168 prime for prime who would win...then he starts saying Toney and Jones were not that good at 168...why is everyone on their bandwagon ( so to speak).....

I told him he is crazy to think Roy at 168 was not one of the best fighters to ever put on gloves he responded the first time with this

I think people think of Roy Jones as a Ali of 168 and he only had a few fights there and Tony was good not unbeatable. I think Joe would have a chance to beat both of them lets not forget that a past it prime Joe made Kess look like a fool I doubt past it Roy or Tony could. Who knows Hell i will go with Joe to win i not following the coward i think Joe can pull off a win against both not like i can be proved wrong so what the hell

Joe is past prime....Neither Jones or Toney could do to Kessler what Joe did...ETC.....Then he denied ever saying any of it

He was just looking to start something and was caught changing his words.....either that he was spilling so much BS he forgot what he was saying?

That break done you good, Daxx

Ahh we all gotta take em now and then Fenster... .....CC to ya Mate...good to be back

[DaxxKahn]

I doubt it he would have beaten any of them, certainly not the 1st three. How good is he ? I still don't think he's that great, good, but not great. He beat Kessler (over rated) Lacy (over rated). For me he needs to beat one of Pavlik, Taylor, Hopkins or Winky Wright
He never really beaten a really BADDDDD fighter IMO. A real marquee fighter.

Totally ignorant post.

As rarely as I do this...you deserve a & I think you'll get a shitload more.

Calling Kessler over rated proves your'e a hater.

For you he needs to beat a bunch of blown up middles & a light middleweight?

One that has yet to prove himself 100% (Pavlik), one that just got blown out by the one that has yet to prove himself (Taylor), one that is a HOF that he actually needs to fight in Hopkins, & the other that just lost when he moved up...that one being Wright?

You my friend make about as much sense as Chinese Arithmatic to a baboon.

Joe has proven himself by utterly destroying two of the great hopes of 168lbs & has snuffed out the rest of the opposition like a candle wick. Neither Kess or Lacy were over rated...they just got handled by a true champion.

Deal with it.

Chinese arithmatic to a Baboo...LMAO that was a good one Wack I owe you a CC in 24....;


Now on to business.....You know it is not often I disagree with you but Lacey was over rated....He was no bum so do not get me wrong but he was not the maching everyone made him out to be...A good fighter though and at the time was with out a question the best opponent in the division for Joe...

This has all become pointless....Calzagh has beaten everyone who resides in the weight class soundly,,I can not understand what all the commotion is about

Give the man his respect and let it be....I could see if Calzaghe was some arrogant cuss with an attitude...Or some guy who wlaked around looking for smaller opponents but he has not...he has fought all legit SMW's.....

I still refuse to be a fan until he retires or runs Warren over with his car but hey one has nothing to do with the other....

what about if he hires terry marsh to have another crack at doing warren in?

Possible....Hell I'll split payroll with him lol

[Wacko3205]

I doubt it he would have beaten any of them, certainly not the 1st three. How good is he ? I still don't think he's that great, good, but not great. He beat Kessler (over rated) Lacy (over rated). For me he needs to beat one of Pavlik, Taylor, Hopkins or Winky Wright
He never really beaten a really BADDDDD fighter IMO. A real marquee fighter.

Totally ignorant post.

As rarely as I do this...you deserve a & I think you'll get a shitload more.

Calling Kessler over rated proves your'e a hater.

For you he needs to beat a bunch of blown up middles & a light middleweight?

One that has yet to prove himself 100% (Pavlik), one that just got blown out by the one that has yet to prove himself (Taylor), one that is a HOF that he actually needs to fight in Hopkins, & the other that just lost when he moved up...that one being Wright?

You my friend make about as much sense as Chinese Arithmatic to a baboon.

Joe has proven himself by utterly destroying two of the great hopes of 168lbs & has snuffed out the rest of the opposition like a candle wick. Neither Kess or Lacy were over rated...they just got handled by a true champion.

Deal with it.

Chinese arithmatic to a Baboo...LMAO that was a good one Wack I owe you a CC in 24....;


Now on to business.....You know it is not often I disagree with you but Lacey was over rated....He was no bum so do not get me wrong but he was not the maching everyone made him out to be...A good fighter though and at the time was with out a question the best opponent in the division for Joe...

This has all become pointless....Calzagh has beaten everyone who resides in the weight class soundly,,I can not understand what all the commotion is about

Give the man his respect and let it be....I could see if Calzaghe was some arrogant cuss with an attitude...Or some guy who wlaked around looking for smaller opponents but he has not...he has fought all legit SMW's.....

I still refuse to be a fan until he retires or runs Warren over with his car but hey one has nothing to do with the other....

We'll just have to agree to disagree on Lacy. I think that Lacy still has game in him & will prove that he's not an over rated fighter.

I do want to say this...& I hate to offend you...but you do a HUGE disservice to yourself by stating that you refuse to be a fan of Joe's until he dumps Warren. While I agree that Warren is a toad...he's just the promoter...he's not the fighter. That's your choice...but I hold a lot of your opinions in high regard...but that one...it's just silly babe.

Again...no offense...but Joe is Joe & Warren aint throwing Joe's shots.

That being said...I am glad that you give Calzaghe some credit now...I just wonder what everyone will say if Hopkins agrees to the bout & Joe blasts him out too?

[Mr140]

Yea it is hard to see flaws in Jones at 168 but he did not fight much there. If he fought his whole career there and was a champ a long time there then i could see how good he really was at the weight. But most of his career was LH and were he was champ a long time at LH. And as far as Tony is concerned he was great but not unbeatable and he did lose and moved up and did better i think at other weights. And as far as me saying Kess look like a Fool to harsh but he was beat and look a lower level then Cal better way to put it. And the question to begin with is do i think Joe could beat them i said yea and that is were i disagree with a lot people on the post that think there is no way Joe could beat a Roy and i think Joe could.

[Wright]

They'll say that Hopkins was too old, way past his prime and a pussy of the first order. I've said before that I'm not keen on Calzaghe, but with some people Joe could beat Godzilla, King Kong and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles at the same time and he'd still be shit. Calzaghe deserves more respect, as does Kessler.

[DaxxKahn]

I doubt it he would have beaten any of them, certainly not the 1st three. How good is he ? I still don't think he's that great, good, but not great. He beat Kessler (over rated) Lacy (over rated). For me he needs to beat one of Pavlik, Taylor, Hopkins or Winky Wright
He never really beaten a really BADDDDD fighter IMO. A real marquee fighter.

Totally ignorant post.

As rarely as I do this...you deserve a & I think you'll get a shitload more.

Calling Kessler over rated proves your'e a hater.

For you he needs to beat a bunch of blown up middles & a light middleweight?

One that has yet to prove himself 100% (Pavlik), one that just got blown out by the one that has yet to prove himself (Taylor), one that is a HOF that he actually needs to fight in Hopkins, & the other that just lost when he moved up...that one being Wright?

You my friend make about as much sense as Chinese Arithmatic to a baboon.

Joe has proven himself by utterly destroying two of the great hopes of 168lbs & has snuffed out the rest of the opposition like a candle wick. Neither Kess or Lacy were over rated...they just got handled by a true champion.

Deal with it.

Chinese arithmatic to a Baboo...LMAO that was a good one Wack I owe you a CC in 24....;


Now on to business.....You know it is not often I disagree with you but Lacey was over rated....He was no bum so do not get me wrong but he was not the maching everyone made him out to be...A good fighter though and at the time was with out a question the best opponent in the division for Joe...

This has all become pointless....Calzagh has beaten everyone who resides in the weight class soundly,,I can not understand what all the commotion is about

Give the man his respect and let it be....I could see if Calzaghe was some arrogant cuss with an attitude...Or some guy who wlaked around looking for smaller opponents but he has not...he has fought all legit SMW's.....

I still refuse to be a fan until he retires or runs Warren over with his car but hey one has nothing to do with the other....

We'll just have to agree to disagree on Lacy. I think that Lacy still has game in him & will prove that he's not an over rated fighter.

I do want to say this...& I hate to offend you...but you do a HUGE disservice to yourself by stating that you refuse to be a fan of Joe's until he dumps Warren. While I agree that Warren is a toad...he's just the promoter...he's not the fighter. That's your choice...but I hold a lot of your opinions in high regard...but that one...it's just silly babe.

Again...no offense...but Joe is Joe & Warren aint throwing Joe's shots.

That being said...I am glad that you give Calzaghe some credit now...I just wonder what everyone will say if Hopkins agrees to the bout & Joe blasts him out too?

Hell I know it is a lousey excuse but any excuse is better then none right :P...I was being a smart ass about that TBH....I think Joe himself is a quality guy...win lose or draw last night Joe has always acted like a gentleman in the way he conducts himself something that IMO is just as important in being a champion as throwing punches in the ring...

I have to give Joe his credit...Not because I think I should or the fact that I am worried about what anyone here will say if I don't but simply for the fact the man has EARNED the respect of everyone...he has fought hard and taken the shit end of things for a long long time and he took the punches to give the punches came out ahead and to deny the man what he has done in terms of accomplishments is just plain ignorance....I will say this...If he goes back to fight guys ;like Manfredo again he will lose a notch in my book...That is the part where I get mad a Calzaghe ....leave me explain why....

Warren the bum he is makes fights like that for his guy....Joe is a top notch P4P champion not some puppet...He can tell Warren "hey are you kidding me this guy is not worthy of being my sparring partner"....By now he has the power to decide who he fights or doesn't.....Then after a fight with someone like Manfredo he questions why he does not get respect?...Well hell mate look at your opponent!!!!....Hope that makes sense.....IMO he is beyond guys like that so why fight them?....You don't need the money?....That is my only and always has been my only thing that turns me off about Joe.....

With that being said...Joe the fighter and Joe the guy outside the ring have earned my respect... To say different would only take away any credibility I have not only with the boxing commumity but myself as a fan who knows good from bad..something I pride myself on.....


As for Jeff we will just continue to disagree...I never said he was a nobody or not a good fighter just not the unstoppable machine the media made him out to be.....The only person stopping Lacey from getting back in the mix is lacey...IMO the loss to JC hurt his psyche...and only he can fix that or be banished to fighting c level opp for the rest of his career

[Mar]

This is just my opinion but there is nothing bad anyone can say about either fighter, joe was just simply amazing and kessler fought real well as well, we were on our feet for most of the fight, calzaghe is definatly the man in this division hands down right now.

[WelshDevilRob]

Would he have beaten a peak Roy Jones at super middle ? Hell no
Would he have beaten a peak James Toney at super middle ? No
Would he have beaten a peak Gerald McClellan at super middle ? No
Would he have beaten a peak Steve Collins at super middle ? Yes. Easily
Would he have beaten a peak Nigel Benn at super middle ? Yes

Spot on VD , Calzaghe is a fine fighter , but he wouldnt have lived with Toney/Mcclellen /Jones
he beats Benn inside 4 , and Collins gets stopped in 10 barely laying a glove on Joe.

He beats Benn but loses to McClellan? Have you seen the fight where Gerald gets crushed by Benn.
Benn was a better fighter than McClellan as he proved in the ring.

What did James Toney ever do except get a bogus decision over unknown Dave Tiberi and getting beat by Montell Griffin and Drake Thadzi - yet he can beat calzaghe - nonsense. Oh yeh James lost to Roy Jones Jnr who I would pick to beat them all.

I don't even know why Steve Collins is in the original list as he beat a shot Nigel Benn but lost to McCallum and Reggie Johnson.

Joe stylewise would have trouble against Benn and lose to RJJ but he'd certainly beat Collins, McClellan and Toney.