Favorite Defensive Fighters

[Chris Nagel]

There was a consequence of his fights going the distance. You see he was a bleeder, I remember reading how devestated when the fight was stopped due to cut that he recieved from Cervantes. He was a tough fighter though, he wanted to go on like any game fighter would.

I think that Julio Cesar Chavez shows us what a good counterpuncher should be, he was hard hitting and hard to hit.

[greynotsoold]

Chavez is real underrated defensively. If you watch his fights in slo-motion, which, I'm kind of embarassed to say, I've done many, many times , you'll see how infrequently he gets hit cleanly. Try his first fight with Taylor, without the pro-Taylor commentary and in slo-motion, and it isn't really a close fight at all.

[Chris Nagel]

That goes back to common bias. When most people judge, they typically lean towards the busier fighter.

[ICB]

Chavez is real underrated defensively. If you watch his fights in slo-motion, which, I'm kind of embarassed to say, I've done many, many times , you'll see how infrequently he gets hit cleanly. Try his first fight with Taylor, without the pro-Taylor commentary and in slo-motion, and it isn't really a close fight at all.

So your implying Chavez was winning the fight

[Sharla]

I never was able to find any of his fights, but I remember hearing him talking about this one fight, I believe it was for the title, he says, "While there's guys that have to be carried out of the ring, I had to be carried into the ring." It was probably one of those times where a fighter gets a shot at a title a weight class below their natural weight, and that they had to weighed in at ringside. That was hard time to be a fighter.

I'm sorry to go off topic here but perhaps he got that sluggish feeling pre-fight. Me and my brother (judo player)both get it just before going in to compete. It's not a problem once we start and I almost always finish with too much left in the tank - but still have that pre-fight heavy feeling. Perhaps something to do with the adrenalin. It's not something I feel all the time before working out abut I almost always feel it right before competing even though I've tapered and my bro is the same. I know adrenalin does me a favour when competing because i don't feel pain from the hard hits the same way - i know they were decent shots but that's about it. Still I've spoken to my bro about it and PMed hitmandonny about it and the consensus seems to be to do a nice short, hard burst of work before going in to wake the body up a bit.

[greynotsoold]

Fight your first round before you enter the ring...........
Yeah, Chavez was winning that fight. When I saw it, the night it happened, in a loud bar, I thought chavez was ahead and that the kd sealed it for him, in a close fight. When I saw it later, with Lampley et. al... calling it, I thought it was a different fight. So I watched it in slo-motion and it wasn't that close at all. Chavez beat the heck out of him.

[ICB]

Fight your first round before you enter the ring...........
Yeah, Chavez was winning that fight. When I saw it, the night it happened, in a loud bar, I thought chavez was ahead and that the kd sealed it for him, in a close fight. When I saw it later, with Lampley et. al... calling it, I thought it was a different fight. So I watched it in slo-motion and it wasn't that close at all. Chavez beat the heck out of him.

Oh come off it thats not true and you know it Taylor won every single round easy except for maybe 2 of the last rounds he gave Chavez a boxing lesson why do you think it is considered so controversial ?? because if it was a close fight it wouldn't have been controverisal but the fact is Taylor was miles ahead on points and got stopped with 2 seconds left thats why there is so much controvery because Taylor was winning on points easy if you think Chavez was winning that fight you can't score a boxing fight properly let me guess Chavez deserved a draw in Whitaker fight aswell ??

And just to end this debate right now Chavez's own corner even said he was losing the fight so there you have it.

[Scrap]

Joe youre right about Chavez defence wise. He was a teriffic mover use to enjoy watching him for his style he was as perfect as you could get, great footwork smooth, great technician.

[Chris Nagel]

I never was able to find any of his fights, but I remember hearing him talking about this one fight, I believe it was for the title, he says, "While there's guys that have to be carried out of the ring, I had to be carried into the ring." It was probably one of those times where a fighter gets a shot at a title a weight class below their natural weight, and that they had to weighed in at ringside. That was hard time to be a fighter.

I'm sorry to go off topic here but perhaps he got that sluggish feeling pre-fight. Me and my brother (judo player)both get it just before going in to compete. It's not a problem once we start and I almost always finish with too much left in the tank - but still have that pre-fight heavy feeling. Perhaps something to do with the adrenalin. It's not something I feel all the time before working out abut I almost always feel it right before competing even though I've tapered and my bro is the same. I know adrenalin does me a favour when competing because i don't feel pain from the hard hits the same way - i know they were decent shots but that's about it. Still I've spoken to my bro about it and PMed hitmandonny about it and the consensus seems to be to do a nice short, hard burst of work before going in to wake the body up a bit.

I had to go over the clip again to see if I was right. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=D7rNks9X1e8)

Art said it was difficult making the weight at 144 which was the class that he beat Jimmy Carter at. When he got a shot at the Carter's title it was at 135 pounds, he practically had to kill himself to make the wieght. He was so weak that he had to be carried into the ring. That was hard times to be a fighter.

[Sharla]

Interesting vid CC Chris - funny he said the best thing he did in that era was when he divorced his 3rd wife!

[ThomasTabin]

He is never mentioned for this but my personal favorite has to be Mike McCallum. He had a very good awareness of his opponent's body and of his own. As though he had a total understanding of both. As a result he was virtually impossible to hit. Even more impressive when you consider that he mostly stood directly in front of his opponent. He is a must for young fighters to watch. He is standing right in front of you but why cant you hit him? theres a big lesson to be learned there.

[greynotsoold]

Yeah, McCallum was something. He proved two things:
First, you can hit the body effectively from a distance and;
Second, you can hit the body effectively without wading in and getting hit in return.

[ThomasTabin]

An interesting tip on McCallum's left hook to the body. He threw it so that it would come up from under. landing right under the elbow. You raise your elbow even a little bit on McCallum he is going digging like no tomorrow.

Also interesting because most boxers cannot throw the left hook to the body in this way. their lead arm is not held low at the waist like McCallum and as a result is unable to come up from under to hit bellow the elbow. They keep that lead arm high up and must drop it in order to scoop that left hook like McCallum did. Something they never do because it leaves their squared up body exposed. The problems are many in number for them and only seem to compound further and further as you go down the line.

[greynotsoold]

The key to throwing the hook to the body that way is this, I think; you have to get your shoulder to the level of the target.

[Chris Nagel]

I agree that it depends on your stance. You can't do it when your body is square to your opponent. Mike McCallum had so many options at his disposal and his stance had a lot to do with it.

Looking at the left hook, it does not have to be a 1-dimensional punch. I think that just like the jab it can be deceptive and in that aspect can access a lot of different angles that many guys haven't considered. Every single guard has an opening that's ripe for the picking. I think that just being able to make simple adjustments in the way that you throw your left hook so that you have a more angles to choose from is just one of the ways that you can give your left hook or any punch for that matter deadly and with more variety.