No matter who he beats, can calzaghe be the lbs4lbs greatest?

[GermanHitman]

I would say so.. I would LOVE TO SEE A FIGHT BETWEEN CALZAGHE AND PAVLIK

[WelshDevilRob]

Joe Calzaghe is fading and his hands are not what they used to be - he can't generate as much power. His chin and volume punching are still there and his superb timing but he is not the fighter he was. He's still very, very good and he'll beat Hopkins IMO.

I suppose when he finishes his career, then that is the right time to judge whether he has done enough.

[buhlestnoble]

Based on wins over Hopkins and pavlik I would seriously consider joe as p4p best based on having faced perhaps the toughest opposition of any current fighter.

Its difficult to overtake floyd unless you bt him. He is a great fighter

Taeth disagree with your opinion on the closeness of the calzaghe Kessler fight. It was a clear cut UD for joe and I haven’t heard anyone else comment otherwise. Your argument loses direction considering how very close floyd was to loosing to a past his best de la hoya.

Hopkins is a great boxer but overrated. When you look at his record the only other genuine middleweight greats he ever fought, jones and taylor (not a great imo), he lost to. His best wins came against fighters he had significant physical advantages over…de la hoya, Trinidad, wright and tarver who had to lose 40lbs to make weight. Joe will be rated above him one day.

IMO p4p list is based on a fighters record…..his level of opposition….his titles….over how many weight division…..and how skilled a boxer you think he is and his potential NOT who would win if they were the same division. How can you predict who would win if Vasquez and say klitschko fought at the same weight…..oooo Vasquez would have the speed klitshko the power etc lol. I believe that when you have ranked the fighters based on some of the criteria and others I first mentioned you have the best possible idea of who would win IF they were the same weight anyway.

Teath cant respect your opinion on how calzaghe v mayweather would pan out. Saying floyd would have the power advantage etc I just find it stupid arguament. Not to get dragged in too far I would say that joe possesses the athleticism and stamina that arguably de la hoya lacked in their very close 1st fight!

On when a fighter peaks and when he is on the way down. Lets be honest this is pretty much guess work. It seems convenient tho how whenever top American fighters lose ie jones and Hopkins….all of a sudden they are past there peak. Many fighters are supposedly finished by the age of 30 so how we can say that joe is still at his peak (whatever that means) is again not based on any real science. Show me his VO2 max, his bench press max, his 100m etc. He may have reached his physical peak 5 years ago for all we know.

The bottom line…. Calzaghe isn’t American and hasn’t fought there yet so he is not well respected as he would be if he had fought there. Its as simple as that really cos the American media tell us who the p4p best fighters are and they are the ones who build up the fighters. Like lennox lewis, calzaghe wont be respected fully until he is retired and his former opponents, take kessler as an example, have proven how good they are to the US audience

[GermanHitman]

Based on wins over Hopkins and pavlik I would seriously consider joe as p4p best based on having faced perhaps the toughest opposition of any current fighter.

Its difficult to overtake floyd unless you bt him. He is a great fighter

Taeth disagree with your opinion on the closeness of the calzaghe Kessler fight. It was a clear cut UD for joe and I haven’t heard anyone else comment otherwise. Your argument loses direction considering how very close floyd was to loosing to a past his best de la hoya.

Hopkins is a great boxer but overrated. When you look at his record the only other genuine middleweight greats he ever fought, jones and taylor (not a great imo), he lost to. His best wins came against fighters he had significant physical advantages over…de la hoya, Trinidad, wright and tarver who had to lose 40lbs to make weight. Joe will be rated above him one day.

IMO p4p list is based on a fighters record…..his level of opposition….his titles….over how many weight division…..and how skilled a boxer you think he is and his potential NOT who would win if they were the same division. How can you predict who would win if Vasquez and say klitschko fought at the same weight…..oooo Vasquez would have the speed klitshko the power etc lol. I believe that when you have ranked the fighters based on some of the criteria and others I first mentioned you have the best possible idea of who would win IF they were the same weight anyway.

Teath cant respect your opinion on how calzaghe v mayweather would pan out. Saying floyd would have the power advantage etc I just find it stupid arguament. Not to get dragged in too far I would say that joe possesses the athleticism and stamina that arguably de la hoya lacked in their very close 1st fight!

On when a fighter peaks and when he is on the way down. Lets be honest this is pretty much guess work. It seems convenient tho how whenever top American fighters lose ie jones and Hopkins….all of a sudden they are past there peak. Many fighters are supposedly finished by the age of 30 so how we can say that joe is still at his peak (whatever that means) is again not based on any real science. Show me his VO2 max, his bench press max, his 100m etc. He may have reached his physical peak 5 years ago for all we know.

The bottom line…. Calzaghe isn’t American and hasn’t fought there yet so he is not well respected as he would be if he had fought there. Its as simple as that really cos the American media tell us who the p4p best fighters are and they are the ones who build up the fighters. Like lennox lewis, calzaghe wont be respected fully until he is retired and his former opponents, take kessler as an example, have proven how good they are to the US audience

Good post.. even though it hurts me because Kessler is a fave of mine.. i agree. I'm American and i know what Calzaghe is capable of i don't really think anyone can beat him unless its pavlik.. B-Hop is gonna get eff'd up.

[Pugilistic]

as long as mayweather is still here then no,


welcome to saddos by the way

[donnydarkoIRL]

At this stage the pound for pound status will prove evasive for Joe.

Having blossomed in the eyes of the boxing public at such a late stage of his career, the essential fights are only becoming possible now at this advanced stage of his career.
Calzaghe, although a gifted natural athlete, a diligent trainer and a superb boxer, is slightly diminished now in comparison to the Calzaghe of a couple of years ago.

Problems with his hands coupled with his ever increasing age mean that the big fights do pose a threat. In any Calzaghe fight a broken hand is a possibility. As is the risk of his body ageing quickly.

Although viewed as his crowning glory, the win over Kessler did represent a different side of Joe. In terms of power he casnnot administer the same punches he did in his earlier career nor can he take the punches he did early in his career.

Not unlike his forthcoming adversary Bernard Hopkins, Calzaghe's game right now is based upon guile, intellect and expierience. His primary weapons are his speed coupled with his movement, useless to an inexpierienced boxer, but to a tactician like Calzaghe these tools can be sufficient in huge match ups.

However when the topic of pound for pound arises some doubt lingers.
The very term suggests something physical. To me it means who has the best brain coupled with the best physical ability.

Calzaghe although a brilliant boxer, an extremely fit man and as I've mentioned a diligent trainer, does not have the best physical game in the sport. In my eyes he will never be No.1 pound for pound in my eyes, because he din't get the big fights in his prime

[bikersk]

At this stage the pound for pound status will prove evasive for Joe.

Having blossomed in the eyes of the boxing public at such a late stage of his career, the essential fights are only becoming possible now at this advanced stage of his career.
Calzaghe, although a gifted natural athlete, a diligent trainer and a superb boxer, is slightly diminished now in comparison to the Calzaghe of a couple of years ago.

Problems with his hands coupled with his ever increasing age mean that the big fights do pose a threat. In any Calzaghe fight a broken hand is a possibility. As is the risk of his body ageing quickly.

Although viewed as his crowning glory, the win over Kessler did represent a different side of Joe. In terms of power he casnnot administer the same punches he did in his earlier career nor can he take the punches he did early in his career.

Not unlike his forthcoming adversary Bernard Hopkins, Calzaghe's game right now is based upon guile, intellect and expierience. His primary weapons are his speed coupled with his movement, useless to an inexpierienced boxer, but to a tactician like Calzaghe these tools can be sufficient in huge match ups.

However when the topic of pound for pound arises some doubt lingers.
The very term suggests something physical. To me it means who has the best brain coupled with the best physical ability.

Calzaghe although a brilliant boxer, an extremely fit man and as I've mentioned a diligent trainer, does not have the best physical game in the sport. In my eyes he will never be No.1 pound for pound in my eyes, because he din't get the big fights in his prime

Good points made but if Joe can Vanquish Hopkins then his P4P rises and he will be considered a great (or should be). But to be considered P4P greatest i don't know what he could do to achieve that.

[donnydarkoIRL]

At this stage the pound for pound status will prove evasive for Joe.

Having blossomed in the eyes of the boxing public at such a late stage of his career, the essential fights are only becoming possible now at this advanced stage of his career.
Calzaghe, although a gifted natural athlete, a diligent trainer and a superb boxer, is slightly diminished now in comparison to the Calzaghe of a couple of years ago.

Problems with his hands coupled with his ever increasing age mean that the big fights do pose a threat. In any Calzaghe fight a broken hand is a possibility. As is the risk of his body ageing quickly.

Although viewed as his crowning glory, the win over Kessler did represent a different side of Joe. In terms of power he casnnot administer the same punches he did in his earlier career nor can he take the punches he did early in his career.

Not unlike his forthcoming adversary Bernard Hopkins, Calzaghe's game right now is based upon guile, intellect and expierience. His primary weapons are his speed coupled with his movement, useless to an inexpierienced boxer, but to a tactician like Calzaghe these tools can be sufficient in huge match ups.

However when the topic of pound for pound arises some doubt lingers.
The very term suggests something physical. To me it means who has the best brain coupled with the best physical ability.

Calzaghe although a brilliant boxer, an extremely fit man and as I've mentioned a diligent trainer, does not have the best physical game in the sport. In my eyes he will never be No.1 pound for pound in my eyes, because he din't get the big fights in his prime

Good points made but if Joe can Vanquish Hopkins then his P4P rises and he will be considered a great (or should be). But to be considered P4P greatest i don't know what he could do to achieve that.

A win over Hopkins would see his stocks rise considerably that much is true.

In pound for pound terms he may climb a little or perhaps solidify his place at number three or so.

However, it is a commonly held belief that Calzaghe has only two fights left in him. Unfortunately he just hasn't enough time left.

[bikersk]

At this stage the pound for pound status will prove evasive for Joe.

Having blossomed in the eyes of the boxing public at such a late stage of his career, the essential fights are only becoming possible now at this advanced stage of his career.
Calzaghe, although a gifted natural athlete, a diligent trainer and a superb boxer, is slightly diminished now in comparison to the Calzaghe of a couple of years ago.

Problems with his hands coupled with his ever increasing age mean that the big fights do pose a threat. In any Calzaghe fight a broken hand is a possibility. As is the risk of his body ageing quickly.

Although viewed as his crowning glory, the win over Kessler did represent a different side of Joe. In terms of power he casnnot administer the same punches he did in his earlier career nor can he take the punches he did early in his career.

Not unlike his forthcoming adversary Bernard Hopkins, Calzaghe's game right now is based upon guile, intellect and expierience. His primary weapons are his speed coupled with his movement, useless to an inexpierienced boxer, but to a tactician like Calzaghe these tools can be sufficient in huge match ups.

However when the topic of pound for pound arises some doubt lingers.
The very term suggests something physical. To me it means who has the best brain coupled with the best physical ability.

Calzaghe although a brilliant boxer, an extremely fit man and as I've mentioned a diligent trainer, does not have the best physical game in the sport. In my eyes he will never be No.1 pound for pound in my eyes, because he din't get the big fights in his prime

Good points made but if Joe can Vanquish Hopkins then his P4P rises and he will be considered a great (or should be). But to be considered P4P greatest i don't know what he could do to achieve that.

A win over Hopkins would see his stocks rise considerably that much is true.

In pound for pound terms he may climb a little or perhaps solidify his place at number three or so.

However, it is a commonly held belief that Calzaghe has only two fights left in him. Unfortunately he just hasn't enough time left.

Yeah that seems to be true for Joe. Can't see him being considered P4P 1. He's left it a bit late i guess.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Lately he's made a great arguement for his ATG status though. I feel he is certainly an ATG Super Middleweight, although that is helped by the lack of history in the division I guess.

[Kel]

"Hopkins is a great boxer but overrated. When you look at his record the only other genuine middleweight greats he ever fought, jones and taylor (not a great imo), he lost to. His best wins came against fighters he had significant physical advantages over…de la hoya, Trinidad, wright and tarver who had to lose 40lbs to make weight. Joe will be rated above him one day"

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

No one will have a shot at # 1(I know Pac is some people's #1) until Floyd retires... Calzaghe is a great fighter. No doubt... But there is just no ultra great superstars that he'd be able to go up against that would sway people in that way... I mean, Floyd is fighting the Delahoyas and the Hattons... Calzaghe is fighting the Hokins and Kesslers... They are the very best he can find right now and he gets credit from me but niether of those fighters will catapult him to #1. If Calzaghe beats Pavlik he might reach in the top three... But one... no. Not even two as Pac is solidly there.

Welcome to the board!

[Tins06]

Got to agree there is nothing Joe can do to get himself p4p no1 spot or 2 really.You can make point after point but it boils down to a simple thing in the end..The names just aint there for Joe.

[buhlestnoble]

Fair points ICB. Mayweather is top of my p4p too of course. Its interesting that you post his record up though and what strikes me is that to a casual boxing fan there probably aren’t that many big names there. Don’t get me wrong his unbeaten record is 1st class but perhaps equally strong in his argument to be p4p best is the skills he has dazzled us with.

Its interesting though that imo calzaghes record stands up pretty well actually and its growing faster than and certainly catching up with mayweather’s. Some wins over good quality fighters, former respected world champs and this has been validated in many ways by the Kessler victory. But in many ways like mayweather, its been the way that calzaghe has been so dominating in most of his fights, certainly in the big ones that makes him a very strong p4p contender.

On mayweathers opposition you have to admit that apart from de la hoya there isn’t another current legitimate super fighter in his record. Castillo and corrales are very good but not in the de la hoya league. I often think if de la hoya had fought mayweathers opposition (de la hoya started as a superfeather weight like floyd) he probably would have the same unbeaten record and this view leads to interesting questions. Mayweathers recent opposition has been a bit disappointing, he pretty much skipped the light welter weight division entirely and still hasn’t fought any genuine current welterweight champ (baldomir was no undisputed champ).

Calzaghe for me has one thing mayweather hasn’t achieved and that’s a win over an unbeaten champion fighter at his prime at his own weight class….like Kessler and even lacy who was hugely rated and expected to win. Hatton at welter doesn’t count as he was too small. The closeness of the de la hoya fight in many ways validates my opinion, for me he NEEDS TO FIGHT COTTO before I close the book. As it happens I do think he will win that one and then I agree the door would be pretty much shut on calzaghe but to say that joe cant even make no 2 on the list is crazy!

[ICB]

Fair points ICB. Mayweather is top of my p4p too of course. Its interesting that you post his record up though and what strikes me is that to a casual boxing fan there probably aren’t that many big names there. Don’t get me wrong his unbeaten record is 1st class but perhaps equally strong in his argument to be p4p best is the skills he has dazzled us with.

Its interesting though that imo calzaghes record stands up pretty well actually and its growing faster than and certainly catching up with mayweather’s. Some wins over good quality fighters, former respected world champs and this has been validated in many ways by the Kessler victory. But in many ways like mayweather, its been the way that calzaghe has been so dominating in most of his fights, certainly in the big ones that makes him a very strong p4p contender.

On mayweathers opposition you have to admit that apart from de la hoya there isn’t another current legitimate super fighter in his record. Castillo and corrales are very good but not in the de la hoya league. I often think if de la hoya had fought mayweathers opposition (de la hoya started as a superfeather weight like floyd) he probably would have the same unbeaten record and this view leads to interesting questions. Mayweathers recent opposition has been a bit disappointing, he pretty much skipped the light welter weight division entirely and still hasn’t fought any genuine current welterweight champ (baldomir was no undisputed champ).

Calzaghe for me has one thing mayweather hasn’t achieved and that’s a win over an unbeaten champion fighter at his prime at his own weight class….like Kessler and even lacy who was hugely rated and expected to win. Hatton at welter doesn’t count as he was too small. The closeness of the de la hoya fight in many ways validates my opinion, for me he NEEDS TO FIGHT COTTO before I close the book. As it happens I do think he will win that one and then I agree the door would be pretty much shut on calzaghe but to say that joe cant even make no 2 on the list is crazy!

Gernaro Hernandez had never been beaten at Super Featherweight and had a win over the great Azumah Nelson, Corrales was also a P4P fighter. Im not really going to break down Mayweather's opposition because i have had this discussion to many times. But IMO Mayweather's opposition is much better than Calzaghe's no question. Fighters like Woodhall, Brewer, Eubank, are decent wins but all 3 of those fighters were shot and Woodhall, Brewer were coming off bad losses, and Eubank was a late replacement. No doubt Calzaghe has beat the best in the division but that doesn't mean its been good opposition though. And sorry bro but i couldn't disagree with you more with your last statement i'll copy and paste it.

Calzaghe for me has one thing mayweather hasn't achieved and that's a win over an unbeaten champion fighter at his prime at his own weight class.

Totally disagree Corrales was young and an unbeaten champion. Plus he was in the top 10 P4P rankings i believe he was ranked 7th or something like that. Most experts had that 50-50 match up and Mayweather just destroyed Corrales flooring him x5 times.