Kessler-Miranda Will Not Happen

[thewhale]

Well Maybe my man Kessler could look like this, after Miranda said hallo.
Kessler after slaps.jpg

As I understand it from Palle Miranda could still get a fight later on, but remember he is a whore after them ABC-titles

[CFH]

It means nothing. If Kessler won all that I'm saying right now will be said by boxing people. "Well Miranda only had two fights at super middleweight and never really fought anyone truly dangerous since Pavlik."

I'll put it to you this way, Kessler beating Miranda is nothing. Miranda is just a name at super middleweight who hasn't proven anything there yet except that he hits hard, which was already known.

Why doesnt Miranda fight Pascal or fight Mundine? Why is nobody calling out Anthony Mundine's name? If Miranda wants a title or some recognition why doesn't he call out Anthony Mundine's name?

Kessler is much more well known than Mundine, thus there is more money and exposure in a fight with him. Like JTRock said, Mundine is fighting Soliman anyways, and Miranda was probably trying to get a fight with Kessler done when Mundine was trying to choose an opponent. A guy who got KO'd by Sven fucking Ottke is not going to want to fight a punishing hitter like Miranda anyways. Miranda is better known than Mundine or Bute, so for Kessler it would make sense from a monetary perspective, as well drum up more publicity for both fighters if they fought eachother. If Miranda is just a name at SMW, who in that division has a bigger name, so to speak? Not Mundine, not Bute. Maybe someone like Bika, but only because of the Contender, and even then I doubt he is more popular the Miranda.

In regards to Pascal, he has become incredibly quiet ever since he watched Miranda destroy Banks from about 10 feet away, Miranda can't force him to fight. Before the Banks KO, Pascal was calling out Miranda and talking shit about him in every medium possible, now he doesn't say a word.

Also, Arther Abraham, for all his faults, was also a very dangerous opponent for Miranda.

If a fight ever comes off between Miranda and Kessler once Kessler beats him badly I'll come back here and tell you I told you so.

People overrate punchers beyond no end and its like you forget everything Kessler did before beating Calzaghe.

When you fans say that he should go for the biggest name to start off it sounds like you're hoping he lands one big shot and gains instant fame as oppose to fighting the people I mention because you're afraid he'll get beaten.

I want to address the edit you threw into your post after I already responded.

I have repeatedly stated throughout this thread and others that I think Kessler would handle Miranda fairly easily, more easily than Pavlik in fact. So I don't know what your juvinile "I'll come back and say I told you so" comment is referring to. I also gave, and give, Kessler a ton of credit for his fight with Calzaghe, I'm a Kessler fan and I was cheering for him against JC (though I became a fan of Calzaghe because of that fight). So what, exactly, did I forget about that fight?

When did I say anything that could constitute overrating a puncher? The only thing I can think of is when I said it looks like Pascal is afraid of Miranda. Well, it looks like, following the brutal KO of Banks, Pascal became very quiet in regards to Miranda, a subject he was quite vocal about leading up to their ESPN card, which was supposed to set-up a fight between them. Also, Winky Wright is one of my favorite fighters, so I'm hardly one of those boxing fans who only likes big punchers.

Why would I be "afraid [Miranda] will get beaten"? I'm a boxing fan, I like to watch good fights, and in boxing there is almost always a loser.

I thought someone who worked in a library would be able to read a little better.

[Majesty]

Kessler is much more well known than Mundine, thus there is more money and exposure in a fight with him. Like JTRock said, Mundine is fighting Soliman anyways, and Miranda was probably trying to get a fight with Kessler done when Mundine was trying to choose an opponent. A guy who got KO'd by Sven fucking Ottke is not going to want to fight a punishing hitter like Miranda anyways. Miranda is better known than Mundine or Bute, so for Kessler it would make sense from a monetary perspective, as well drum up more publicity for both fighters if they fought eachother. If Miranda is just a name at SMW, who in that division has a bigger name, so to speak? Not Mundine, not Bute. Maybe someone like Bika, but only because of the Contender, and even then I doubt he is more popular the Miranda.

In regards to Pascal, he has become incredibly quiet ever since he watched Miranda destroy Banks from about 10 feet away, Miranda can't force him to fight. Before the Banks KO, Pascal was calling out Miranda and talking shit about him in every medium possible, now he doesn't say a word.

Also, Arther Abraham, for all his faults, was also a very dangerous opponent for Miranda.

If a fight ever comes off between Miranda and Kessler once Kessler beats him badly I'll come back here and tell you I told you so.

People overrate punchers beyond no end and its like you forget everything Kessler did before beating Calzaghe.

When you fans say that he should go for the biggest name to start off it sounds like you're hoping he lands one big shot and gains instant fame as oppose to fighting the people I mention because you're afraid he'll get beaten.

I want to address the edit you threw into your post after I already responded.

I have repeatedly stated throughout this thread and others that I think Kessler would handle Miranda fairly easily, more easily than Pavlik in fact. So I don't know what your juvinile "I'll come back and say I told you so" comment is referring to. I also gave, and give, Kessler a ton of credit for his fight with Calzaghe, I'm a Kessler fan and I was cheering for him against JC (though I became a fan of Calzaghe because of that fight). So what, exactly, did I forget about that fight?

When did I say anything that could constitute overrating a puncher? The only thing I can think of is when I said it looks like Pascal is afraid of Miranda. Well, it looks like, following the brutal KO of Banks, Pascal became very quiet in regards to Miranda, a subject he was quite vocal about leading up to their ESPN card, which was supposed to set-up a fight between them. Also, Winky Wright is one of my favorite fighters, so I'm hardly one of those boxing fans who only likes big punchers.

Why would I be "afraid [Miranda] will get beaten"? I'm a boxing fan, I like to watch good fights, and in boxing there is almost always a loser.

I thought someone who worked in a library would be able to read a little better.

Um I didnt edit my post And my response wasn't exclusive to you it was to most people thinking that Miranda could handle Kessler easily And Pascal didn't get quiet or was that his evil twin sitting at ringside watching the knockout then doing the throat slice then going up in Miranda's face again after he KO'd banks?

[CFH]

If a fight ever comes off between Miranda and Kessler once Kessler beats him badly I'll come back here and tell you I told you so.

People overrate punchers beyond no end and its like you forget everything Kessler did before beating Calzaghe.

When you fans say that he should go for the biggest name to start off it sounds like you're hoping he lands one big shot and gains instant fame as oppose to fighting the people I mention because you're afraid he'll get beaten.

I want to address the edit you threw into your post after I already responded.

I have repeatedly stated throughout this thread and others that I think Kessler would handle Miranda fairly easily, more easily than Pavlik in fact. So I don't know what your juvinile "I'll come back and say I told you so" comment is referring to. I also gave, and give, Kessler a ton of credit for his fight with Calzaghe, I'm a Kessler fan and I was cheering for him against JC (though I became a fan of Calzaghe because of that fight). So what, exactly, did I forget about that fight?

When did I say anything that could constitute overrating a puncher? The only thing I can think of is when I said it looks like Pascal is afraid of Miranda. Well, it looks like, following the brutal KO of Banks, Pascal became very quiet in regards to Miranda, a subject he was quite vocal about leading up to their ESPN card, which was supposed to set-up a fight between them. Also, Winky Wright is one of my favorite fighters, so I'm hardly one of those boxing fans who only likes big punchers.

Why would I be "afraid [Miranda] will get beaten"? I'm a boxing fan, I like to watch good fights, and in boxing there is almost always a loser.

I thought someone who worked in a library would be able to read a little better.

Um I didnt edit my post And my response wasn't exclusive to you it was to most people thinking that Miranda could handle Kessler easily And Pascal didn't get quiet or was that his evil twin sitting at ringside watching the knockout then doing the throat slice then going up in Miranda's face again after he KO'd banks?

Didn't edit your post? What does this mean then:
Last edited by Majesty : Today at 12:43 PM.

Pascal acted like a scared child after Miranda almost decapitated Banks. He even acted like people were trying to hold him back. Real fucking tough. He may have made the throat slashing gesture, but he didn't get into Miranda's face, he just yelled at Miranda from ringside while Edison was in the ring. He hasn't said a word since, that to me proves he's scared shitless of Miranda. As he should be.

[Majesty]

Well Dude since you want me to make a shoot directly towards you I'll do so

Because the Ottke fight happened a while back it is no longer relevant? That's a load of bullshit, Mundine got knocked COLD by relatively light-punching Ottke, that will always relevent in discussions about Mundine. It is especially relevent when discussing a potential fight between Mundine and a fighter who possess a great deal of power. When exactly does a fight become irrelevent? After 5 years? 10?

Alright Mundine has fought the harder then Ottke punching Danny Green and Antawn Echols AND Kessler and his chin stood up just fine and he wasn't ever wobbled, so what does getting knocked out by Ottke when he had exhausted himself and was relatively new to the sport.

If it meant anything wouldnt he have been knocked out by Green or Echols or KESSLER? Yeah thats what I thought, lets go on to your next statement.

Kessler also has a killer right hand, a comprable or better one than Mundine IMO.

Kessler would get credit for beating Miranda, he's a very popular and somewhat feared fighter. He'd get more credit for beating him than he would for beating Mundine again. Kessler also got all the credit he needed after giving Calzaghe a tough fight, what he needs to do is get back in the ring, and the public eye, against a well-known but beatable opponent. IE Miranda.

Its your opinion that Kessler has a harder right hand. I think Mundine has a better one.

Kessler wouldn't get credit for beating Miranda. And I am asking why doesnt MIRANDA fight Mundine, not why should Kessler fight him again.

So basically you're saying that Kessler should go the easy route and face Miranda because Miranda has a name and is somewhat feared? Look Kessler won't get credit for beating Miranda, Miranda is flawed to the point that Kessler would pick him apart and beat him. And when he does you know exactly what the boxing people will be saying exactly what I'm saying now.

I assume that by Andrande you mean Andrade, who just fought, why should Miranda have to wait the 3 -4 months, minimum, until Librado is ready to fight again?

Its a better fight for him then Kessler and puts him more into the super middleweight picture and gives him a good name. I say Adrande because I think that Miranda could beat him and he fights more of the style that Miranda could fight better against as opposed to throwing him in with Kessler and getting him systematically picked apart. Who says he has to wait? Fight another fight on ESPN then fight Adrande on HBO, that would set up a fight with him and Kessler which would mean more then it would now. And if you disagree with that I suggest you give me a better plan.

Miranda gave a great showing against Abraham despite circumstances surrounding and during the fight that would have been laughable had they not been so pathetic. Most people who saw that fight feel that is was gift-wrapped and handed to Abraham, so don't just say Abraham beat Miranda off-hand like that was the only factor in the situation. Also, the Pavlik - Miranda fight was one of the most exciting fights I have ever seen, and despite being overpowered, Miranda gave a decent account of himself.

Fact is he lost both times, no matter how you slice it he lost one, granted the first was controversial, But there's no way you can erase getting knocked out like he did against Pavlik and he hasn't fought a puncher since then. And before you try to say that "then why can you erase Mundines loss to Ottke" easily, Mundine went on to face punchers including Kessler with little problem when it came to his chin and won a world title twice while he was at it, if he was the same Mundine that got stopped by Ottke do you think he'd have been as successful after? There is no proof that Miranda isn't the same Miranda that lost to Pavlik. I haven't seen any improvement in his style since then, he fights the same, so what he KO'd banks, he has always been a KO puncher, how does that say how he would do against Kessler? Please tell me.

I've already said I feel that Miranda would be fairly easy fight for Kessler, I'm certainly not saying I think Edison could beat him,

Like I said before dude it wasn't a direct response to you, however THIS is, so you can respond accordingly.

so I don't know where you're getting that bullshit response from. Who has Mundine fought at SWM and beat that is any more impressive than Miranda's resume? Antowon Echols? Soliman? Green? A bunch of other mid-level journeymen that no one has heard of? Give me a break.

Who heard of Banks before the contender?

Green, Echols, Soliman, Green are ALL better then anyone Miranda has beaten ESPECIALLY at Super Middleweight. Some for world titles was it not? Name me one champ Miranda has beaten and I'll shut up. Until then, You're just blowing smoke further into a hype train I won't believe.

And before you say "Its not who he beat(Banks) its how he beat him..." Then put it like this, Sam soliman gave Winky Wright a VERY tough fight and had never been stopped. Mundine dominated him and knocked him out. So I'd put Mundine stopping Soliman more impressive then Miranda stopping Banks. Seriously when you mention Mundine's opponents as glorified journeyman yet are trying to place him below Miranda I had to hold back a laugh

[amat]

Talk about blowing smoke? Ha. You always do these round about things where you take one subject and try to drive home a point that has nothing to do with the topic on hand. Starr was the master of it, now you're doiing the same thing

Mundine doesn't fit into this thread. Why? Because this thread is about Kessler and Miranda. Not about Mundine. If you want to talk about Anthony Mundine, talk about his star studded resume, in his last 5 fights he has taken on such house hold names as Reuben Acosta, Sam Soliman, Pablo Nievas, Jose Claberto and Nader Hamdan! Now, in a fight that is sure to break all live gate and television rating records, he returns to face Sam Soliman for the 3rd time, this time it counts!

In that same span, Miranda has beaten Willie Gibbs, Howard Eastman, lost close to Abraham because he was in Germany (not Australia), beat Allan Green and lost to the defending middleweight champion of the world before bouncing back with two KO's.

Sam Soliman's biggest career victory is a loss to Winky Wright in a fight in which Winky had the flu, his skin was 3 shades lighter and he still won with relative ease. He was a bit confused but that's because Soliman's a weird fighter who punches from all angles, not the least bit effectively. A lot of punching, nothing really meaningful, kind of like that whole post I just read. Hate to be so critical, I'm not usually, but come on.

So next time you decide to compare two fighters for no real reason, make sure the fighter you pick actually warrants being talked about. Mundine hasn't been relevant for 2 years, the most interest taken in him was over a contact lens.

And make no mistake about it, it's pretty clear from the article that Kessler doesn't have your purist tentions as a reason for not fighting Miranda. Not saying he's scared, but something is up.

And the truth is, Miranda looked really good versus Pavlik, he landed some bombs and while his hype was pretty much destroyed, in the end he doesn't look so bad. You can argue that he gave a better showing then JT did their first bout even without the knockdown.

And to say Kessler won't get credit for beating Miranda is ludicrous. Do you remember how much credit Pavlik got for beating him? He went from no one picking him to beat Miranda to half the people on the board picking him to beat Taylor. And now Miranda has 2 KO wins, including the KO of the year so far over David Banks.

Miranda is still a hugely popular fighter and would represent one of the best fighters Kessler has ever faced, in a comeback bout no less. He wouldn't get credit? BS.

[Deanrw]

Great Post Amat!!

[eagle]

Kessler is much more well known than Mundine, thus there is more money and exposure in a fight with him. Like JTRock said, Mundine is fighting Soliman anyways, and Miranda was probably trying to get a fight with Kessler done when Mundine was trying to choose an opponent. A guy who got KO'd by Sven fucking Ottke is not going to want to fight a punishing hitter like Miranda anyways. Miranda is better known than Mundine or Bute, so for Kessler it would make sense from a monetary perspective, as well drum up more publicity for both fighters if they fought eachother. If Miranda is just a name at SMW, who in that division has a bigger name, so to speak? Not Mundine, not Bute. Maybe someone like Bika, but only because of the Contender, and even then I doubt he is more popular the Miranda.

In regards to Pascal, he has become incredibly quiet ever since he watched Miranda destroy Banks from about 10 feet away, Miranda can't force him to fight. Before the Banks KO, Pascal was calling out Miranda and talking shit about him in every medium possible, now he doesn't say a word.

Also, Arther Abraham, for all his faults, was also a very dangerous opponent for Miranda.

That Ottke fight is sooooooo far back that it shouldn't even be discussed anymore as Mundine has improved leaps and bounds since then.

One other thing Mundine has is a killer right hand, which Miranda seems to be open for at most times.

And Im not saying Miranda won't get credit for fighting Kessler, I'm saying that Kessler won't get any credit for beating Miranda.

Tell me what in Miranda's resume against people like Kessler has he succeeded? Abraham defeated him and Pavlik knocked him out. Both of those fighters were people who could fight at a distance better then he could. Kessler is the best of those three at fighting at a distance and is a good boxer he only got beaten by Calzaghe who fights better at distances then he does. Miranda isnt even in that league. Let him beat someone of note at super middle before he fights Kessler.

Let him fight the Adrande then if he is desperate for a fight.

Because the Ottke fight happened a while back it is no longer relevant? That's a load of bullshit, Mundine got knocked COLD by relatively light-punching Ottke, that will always relevent in discussions about Mundine. It is especially relevent when discussing a potential fight between Mundine and a fighter who possess a great deal of power. When exactly does a fight become irrelevent? After 5 years? 10?

Kessler also has a killer right hand, a comprable or better one than Mundine IMO.

Kessler would get credit for beating Miranda, he's a very popular and somewhat feared fighter. He'd get more credit for beating him than he would for beating Mundine again. Kessler also got all the credit he needed after giving Calzaghe a tough fight, what he needs to do is get back in the ring, and the public eye, against a well-known but beatable opponent. IE Miranda.

I assume that by Andrande you mean Andrade, who just fought, why should Miranda have to wait the 3 -4 months, minimum, until Librado is ready to fight again?

Miranda gave a great showing against Abraham despite circumstances surrounding and during the fight that would have been laughable had they not been so pathetic. Most people who saw that fight feel that is was gift-wrapped and handed to Abraham, so don't just say Abraham beat Miranda off-hand like that was the only factor in the situation. Also, the Pavlik - Miranda fight was one of the most exciting fights I have ever seen, and despite being overpowered, Miranda gave a decent account of himself. I've already said I feel that Miranda would be fairly easy fight for Kessler, I'm certainly not saying I think Edison could beat him, so I don't know where you're getting that bullshit response from. Who has Mundine fought at SWM and beat that is any more impressive than Miranda's resume? Antowon Echols? Soliman? Green? A bunch of other mid-level journeymen that no one has heard of? Give me a break.

If Mundine being Ko'd by Ottke is still relevant so is Pac being Ko'd by singsurat, or Haye losing to Thompson.

Just cos a guy has a bad fight years ago in one of their early bouts dont mean its all that relevant now.

Since Ottke Mundine has been in with big hitters like Echols, Kessler and Green and hasnt been KO'd by any of those guys.

Many seem to forget that Mundine had no amateur background and fought Ottke in his 10th fight, anyone who thinks that is still relevant obviously hasnt seen Mundines top shelf wins against the likes of Green and Soliman.

[boozeboxer]

Amat you are spot on abotu Winky-Sam Soliman.

[Majesty]

And the truth is, Miranda looked really good versus Pavlik, he landed some bombs and while his hype was pretty much destroyed, in the end he doesn't look so bad. You can argue that he gave a better showing then JT did their first bout even without the knockdown.

All that is your opinion, to me Miranda didn't look that good against Pavlik, it was an exciting fight don't get me wrong, but Pavlik shut him down and once Miranda's power wasn't a factor he was backed up and knocked out. I don't get this whole "at least it was a good fight logic" when the fact remains that he lost he got outboxed and he lost. And personally I think Kessler is a better version of Pavlik at Super Middleweight just with more boxing skill and less one punch power.

If we're gonna talk last fights

Edison fought(and this is at middleweight)

Was Howard Eastman who isn't going anywhere anytime soon
He lost to Abraham(no way you slice it YES it was controversial, but the point deduction he lost was from a headbutt he did out of frustration and thats something you can't act like the ref did in a foul way, Wacko did the best job at describing that fight) I wanted him to beat Abraham, but I accepted that he lost, always felt he could KO abraham in a rematch(until the Pavlik fight but more on that later)

Willie Gibbs...I don't have to say anything, he was a good prospect till Eduard knocked him out, and not only that he just lost recently to Raymond Joval if I'm not mistaking.
Allan Green, someone whom almost got knocked out by some guy named McCrary, he got up and won so I'll give you credit for that, but Allan Green is years away from being a title contender if he gets one.
Pavlik knocked him out no way you slice it he lost and he got beat the same way. Now to be honest with you, I thought that Miranda would win this fight. I heard that he had been working on his defense, developing his jab and keeping his hands up. The fight happens and what do I see? Leaping left hook, Wind up right hand, same pawing jab. I said to myself and everyone around me after that first round that Pavlik was going to knock him out. Miranda didn't change and he never will, thats why I'm not buying the hype this time.

Since he has beaten Henry Porras and David Banks... to try to legitimize these two fighters would like trying to prove Paris Hilton is a virgin... you just can't do it.

Until there's a Miranda fight that shows us something different, he would get beat by Kessler.

If Miranda showed a defense better jab better hook in his last fight then I'd be on that train. But all he did was knock Banks out, showing power, which we already knew he had. nothing new. Get what I'm saying?

And to say Kessler won't get credit for beating Miranda is ludicrous. Do you remember how much credit Pavlik got for beating him? He went from no one picking him to beat Miranda to half the people on the board picking him to beat Taylor. And now Miranda has 2 KO wins, including the KO of the year so far over David Banks.

Again who are the two people Miranda knocked out? And I bring up Mundine as part of the equation that there are other super middleweights for him to fight, thats why I also mentioned Pascal and Adrande. Truth be told if Mundine had done that to Banks no one would be blowing as much hype behind Mundine as they do behind Miranda.

Look, Im a Miranda fan, but just because he ko's a bum who wasn't even known before the contender show which he lost in the first round. I see it for what it is, it was a devastating KO, possibly KO of the year, but in no way confirms anything that says he could beat Kessler.

That fight told us one thing, that Miranda had one punch knockout power, he's still the same Miranda and people are still going to overrate him because he hits hard. Read what I said, I said that all the fight did was confirm that Miranda was a power puncher that was already known, and I also mention Mundine as in there was a change seen in him and he became a more well rounded and complete fighter after losing to Ottke. Between both of Miranda's losses, his style remained the same. He is still the same Miranda and would still get beaten the same way. Till I see a good jab and an ability to fight on the inside then I'll give him a chance against Kessler. But he's still the same Miranda who throws all his shots from the outside with the same setup jab he's always had, the same Miranda that would get picked apart by Kessler.

Miranda is still a hugely popular fighter and would represent one of the best fighters Kessler has ever faced, in a comeback bout no less. He wouldn't get credit? BS.

He won't get credit from the people who see things like I do. Everytime he has stepped up to someone of Kessler's class he has been beaten. First one is controversial, second one was exciting but he was ultimately knocked out in a fight he had lost control over by about the mid rounds when he was being pushed back. I have no doubt Kessler who is naturally bigger and at a higher weight class would do the same to him.

You can give credit to Kessler for beating Miranda if you want to, but leave me to my opinion on how I see this fight happening. If Kessler fights Miranda and beats him he'll get no credit from me, because Miranda JUST got to Super Middleweight and he hasn't even been tested there yet and it would be suicide to just throw him in with a guy like Kessler. And by Kessler will get no credit from me I'm not saying I won't respect him for taking the fight or stuff like that. I'm saying it won't show anything new. Miranda can be outboxed and Kessler is a great boxer with power. Stuff we already knew. Get where I'm coming from?

I'm not speaking from an "I hate Miranda" perspective. I like the guy, I want to see him succeed but throwing him in with Kessler is the wrong thing to do because Kessler would stylistically beat him badly. And I don't want to see that happen. Thats why I'm saying let him fight Pascal, or Adrande or Mundine, people that can test him at Super Middleweight. As opposed to throwing him in with someone like Kessler and getting him tested and beaten. Because the three fights I mentioned are safer ones then a fight with Kessler and ones he can get tested in and still win.

Do you get it now?

If Mundine being Ko'd by Ottke is still relevant so is Pac being Ko'd by singsurat, or Haye losing to Thompson.

Just cos a guy has a bad fight years ago in one of their early bouts dont mean its all that relevant now.

Since Ottke Mundine has been in with big hitters like Echols, Kessler and Green and hasnt been KO'd by any of those guys.

Many seem to forget that Mundine had no amateur background and fought Ottke in his 10th fight, anyone who thinks that is still relevant obviously hasnt seen Mundines top shelf wins against the likes of Green and Soliman.

Finally someone gets my point.

[OumaFan]

Mundine's pretty much irrelevant till he decides to go back to fighting decent comp. Its a nice convenient excuse to say nobody will fight him but come on, dude fights embarrassing competition for an elite guy. Would Calzaghe fight him, doubtful, would Bute, probably doubtful too, but you can't tell me that guys like Miranda, Andrade, maybe even Alan Green wouldn't fight him. He's a very good fighter, just doesn't seem to have a whole lot of ambition.

Anyway, Showtime's pissed at Kessler, talking about not having back on.

Also saying that they're now trying to make a Miranda-Abraham rematch but they're not sure if Miranda will go back down to 160.

[Majesty]

Mundine's pretty much irrelevant till he decides to go back to fighting decent comp. Its a nice convenient excuse to say nobody will fight him but come on, dude fights embarrassing competition for an elite guy. Would Calzaghe fight him, doubtful, would Bute, probably doubtful too, but you can't tell me that guys like Miranda, Andrade, maybe even Alan Green wouldn't fight him. He's a very good fighter, just doesn't seem to have a whole lot of ambition.

Anyway, Showtime's pissed at Kessler, talking about not having back on.

Also saying that they're now trying to make a Miranda-Abraham rematch but they're not sure if Miranda will go back down to 160.

Winky Wright is also calling out Miranda at 160 and from what I hear Green wants a rematch at 68.

[eagle]

Mundine's pretty much irrelevant till he decides to go back to fighting decent comp. Its a nice convenient excuse to say nobody will fight him but come on, dude fights embarrassing competition for an elite guy. Would Calzaghe fight him, doubtful, would Bute, probably doubtful too, but you can't tell me that guys like Miranda, Andrade, maybe even Alan Green wouldn't fight him. He's a very good fighter, just doesn't seem to have a whole lot of ambition.

Anyway, Showtime's pissed at Kessler, talking about not having back on.

Also saying that they're now trying to make a Miranda-Abraham rematch but they're not sure if Miranda will go back down to 160.

Bad move by showtime methinks. Kessler will be a star for a long while, not a fighter they wanna lose.

[CFH]

Well Dude since you want me to make a shoot directly towards you I'll do so

Because the Ottke fight happened a while back it is no longer relevant? That's a load of bullshit, Mundine got knocked COLD by relatively light-punching Ottke, that will always relevent in discussions about Mundine. It is especially relevent when discussing a potential fight between Mundine and a fighter who possess a great deal of power. When exactly does a fight become irrelevent? After 5 years? 10?

Alright Mundine has fought the harder then Ottke punching Danny Green and Antawn Echols AND Kessler and his chin stood up just fine and he wasn't ever wobbled, so what does getting knocked out by Ottke when he had exhausted himself and was relatively new to the sport.

If it meant anything wouldnt he have been knocked out by Green or Echols or KESSLER? Yeah thats what I thought, lets go on to your next statement.

Kessler also has a killer right hand, a comprable or better one than Mundine IMO.

Kessler would get credit for beating Miranda, he's a very popular and somewhat feared fighter. He'd get more credit for beating him than he would for beating Mundine again. Kessler also got all the credit he needed after giving Calzaghe a tough fight, what he needs to do is get back in the ring, and the public eye, against a well-known but beatable opponent. IE Miranda.

Its your opinion that Kessler has a harder right hand. I think Mundine has a better one.

Kessler wouldn't get credit for beating Miranda. And I am asking why doesnt MIRANDA fight Mundine, not why should Kessler fight him again.

So basically you're saying that Kessler should go the easy route and face Miranda because Miranda has a name and is somewhat feared? Look Kessler won't get credit for beating Miranda, Miranda is flawed to the point that Kessler would pick him apart and beat him. And when he does you know exactly what the boxing people will be saying exactly what I'm saying now.




Its a better fight for him then Kessler and puts him more into the super middleweight picture and gives him a good name. I say Adrande because I think that Miranda could beat him and he fights more of the style that Miranda could fight better against as opposed to throwing him in with Kessler and getting him systematically picked apart. Who says he has to wait? Fight another fight on ESPN then fight Adrande on HBO, that would set up a fight with him and Kessler which would mean more then it would now. And if you disagree with that I suggest you give me a better plan.




Fact is he lost both times, no matter how you slice it he lost one, granted the first was controversial, But there's no way you can erase getting knocked out like he did against Pavlik and he hasn't fought a puncher since then. And before you try to say that "then why can you erase Mundines loss to Ottke" easily, Mundine went on to face punchers including Kessler with little problem when it came to his chin and won a world title twice while he was at it, if he was the same Mundine that got stopped by Ottke do you think he'd have been as successful after? There is no proof that Miranda isn't the same Miranda that lost to Pavlik. I haven't seen any improvement in his style since then, he fights the same, so what he KO'd banks, he has always been a KO puncher, how does that say how he would do against Kessler? Please tell me.

I've already said I feel that Miranda would be fairly easy fight for Kessler, I'm certainly not saying I think Edison could beat him,

Like I said before dude it wasn't a direct response to you, however THIS is, so you can respond accordingly.

so I don't know where you're getting that bullshit response from. Who has Mundine fought at SWM and beat that is any more impressive than Miranda's resume? Antowon Echols? Soliman? Green? A bunch of other mid-level journeymen that no one has heard of? Give me a break.

Who heard of Banks before the contender?

Green, Echols, Soliman, Green are ALL better then anyone Miranda has beaten ESPECIALLY at Super Middleweight. Some for world titles was it not? Name me one champ Miranda has beaten and I'll shut up. Until then, You're just blowing smoke further into a hype train I won't believe.

And before you say "Its not who he beat(Banks) its how he beat him..." Then put it like this, Sam soliman gave Winky Wright a VERY tough fight and had never been stopped. Mundine dominated him and knocked him out. So I'd put Mundine stopping Soliman more impressive then Miranda stopping Banks. Seriously when you mention Mundine's opponents as glorified journeyman yet are trying to place him below Miranda I had to hold back a laugh

I don't know how to break your quote up into seperate sections like you did with mine, so I'll just respond to each of your points here.

None of what you say about Mundines recent opposition changes the fact that he was knocked completely COLD by Ottke. If Sven Ottke can knock someone out, my guess is Miranda would be able as well - IF, and it's a big if, he could land cleanly. If it was simply due to exhaustion like you claim, why did Mundine lay on the canvas for a significant period of time if he was merely exhausted? Because he wasn't exhausted, he was unconscious. He's also been floored several times since then.

Edison Miranda is better known than Mundine (outside of maybe Aus.). Like you say, he has flaws which Kessler will be able to exploit, thus making Kessler look good. If Kessler looks good against a fairly highly-regarded, somewhat feared, and very popular fighter, how will he not be given credit? You still haven't explained why he wouldn't. Regardless of Miranda's faults, he is more well-known, and more highly regarded than Mundine by the majority of people, thus he will be given a ton of credit if he beats Miranda and looks good doing so. Regardless of which fighter (Miranda or Mundine) possess better skill.

Again, to your point about fighting Andrade, why should Miranda have to wait 3 - 4 months MINIMUM for Andrade to be ready to fight? And you want him to take a tune-up on ESPN in the meantime, then fight Andrade, then fight Kessler? So unless Miranda is fighting every 2 months, he should have to wait 1 - 1 1/2 years to fight Kessler? Why would he do that? What if he gets butted and suffers a serious cut or something during the ESPN fight? Whose to say where Kessler will be by that point, or do you expect him to sit idle and wait for Miranda.
Your proposal makes ZERO buisness sense. None. A better proposal would be to forget about Kessler all together if he doesn't want to fight. Miranda could try calling out a Bute or a Bika, or another highly-regarded fighter. I'd still like to see him fight Pascal, but Pascal got spooked. I'd actually also quite like to see a Miranda - Mundine fight, but that doesn't fit what seems to Mundine's plan of fighting guys who pose little threat to him.

You challenge me to name one champ that Miranda has beaten, which isn't really relevent considering Mundine has never beaten a champ either, though almost everyone feels Miranda beat Abraham - a champ. That's one more champ than Mundine has ever beat. And how am I "blowing smoke into a hype machine"? I said I thought Miranda would be beaten by Kessler rather easily, that's a strange way to hype someone up.

You compare the improvement of Mundine since Ottke (which I will grant you, he's vastly improved) to Miranda's improvement since Pavlik. Mundine has fought over 20 times since then, Miranda has fought twice since Pavlik, looking very good in both fights. It remains to be seen how much Miranda has improved, but your point is completely invalid because of the vast difference in time between the Ottke - Mudine fight and the Pavlik -Miranda fight.

Also, when Sam Soliman is the best fighter you can point to Mundine beating, it doesn't make Mundine look very good. Miranda would SMOKE Soliman if they fought. It doesn't matter if Soliman gave Winky a tough fight, styles makes fights, and if Winky had any power he would have had a much easier time with Soliman, and like Amat mentioned, Wright was ill.

I would take Banks over Echols, and maybe over Soliman and Green as well.
Additionally, I don't know how many times I have to say this to you, you keep asking why I think Miranda would be successful against Kessler -
I DO NOT THINK MIRANDA WOULD DO WELL AGAINST KESSLER! So stop acting like that is what I am saying. For fucksake.

Sorry if this is kind of a scattered post, I tried to respond to each of your points, if you need any clarification just ask.

[eagle]

Well Dude since you want me to make a shoot directly towards you I'll do so

Because the Ottke fight happened a while back it is no longer relevant? That's a load of bullshit, Mundine got knocked COLD by relatively light-punching Ottke, that will always relevent in discussions about Mundine. It is especially relevent when discussing a potential fight between Mundine and a fighter who possess a great deal of power. When exactly does a fight become irrelevent? After 5 years? 10?

Alright Mundine has fought the harder then Ottke punching Danny Green and Antawn Echols AND Kessler and his chin stood up just fine and he wasn't ever wobbled, so what does getting knocked out by Ottke when he had exhausted himself and was relatively new to the sport.

If it meant anything wouldnt he have been knocked out by Green or Echols or KESSLER? Yeah thats what I thought, lets go on to your next statement.



Its your opinion that Kessler has a harder right hand. I think Mundine has a better one.

Kessler wouldn't get credit for beating Miranda. And I am asking why doesnt MIRANDA fight Mundine, not why should Kessler fight him again.

So basically you're saying that Kessler should go the easy route and face Miranda because Miranda has a name and is somewhat feared? Look Kessler won't get credit for beating Miranda, Miranda is flawed to the point that Kessler would pick him apart and beat him. And when he does you know exactly what the boxing people will be saying exactly what I'm saying now.




Its a better fight for him then Kessler and puts him more into the super middleweight picture and gives him a good name. I say Adrande because I think that Miranda could beat him and he fights more of the style that Miranda could fight better against as opposed to throwing him in with Kessler and getting him systematically picked apart. Who says he has to wait? Fight another fight on ESPN then fight Adrande on HBO, that would set up a fight with him and Kessler which would mean more then it would now. And if you disagree with that I suggest you give me a better plan.




Fact is he lost both times, no matter how you slice it he lost one, granted the first was controversial, But there's no way you can erase getting knocked out like he did against Pavlik and he hasn't fought a puncher since then. And before you try to say that "then why can you erase Mundines loss to Ottke" easily, Mundine went on to face punchers including Kessler with little problem when it came to his chin and won a world title twice while he was at it, if he was the same Mundine that got stopped by Ottke do you think he'd have been as successful after? There is no proof that Miranda isn't the same Miranda that lost to Pavlik. I haven't seen any improvement in his style since then, he fights the same, so what he KO'd banks, he has always been a KO puncher, how does that say how he would do against Kessler? Please tell me.



Like I said before dude it wasn't a direct response to you, however THIS is, so you can respond accordingly.

so I don't know where you're getting that bullshit response from. Who has Mundine fought at SWM and beat that is any more impressive than Miranda's resume? Antowon Echols? Soliman? Green? A bunch of other mid-level journeymen that no one has heard of? Give me a break.

Who heard of Banks before the contender?

Green, Echols, Soliman, Green are ALL better then anyone Miranda has beaten ESPECIALLY at Super Middleweight. Some for world titles was it not? Name me one champ Miranda has beaten and I'll shut up. Until then, You're just blowing smoke further into a hype train I won't believe.

And before you say "Its not who he beat(Banks) its how he beat him..." Then put it like this, Sam soliman gave Winky Wright a VERY tough fight and had never been stopped. Mundine dominated him and knocked him out. So I'd put Mundine stopping Soliman more impressive then Miranda stopping Banks. Seriously when you mention Mundine's opponents as glorified journeyman yet are trying to place him below Miranda I had to hold back a laugh

I don't know how to break your quote up into seperate sections like you did with mine, so I'll just respond to each of your points here.

None of what you say about Mundines recent opposition changes the fact that he was knocked completely COLD by Ottke. If Sven Ottke can knock someone out, my guess is Miranda would be able as well - IF, and it's a big if, he could land cleanly. If it was simply due to exhaustion like you claim, why did Mundine lay on the canvas for a significant period of time if he was merely exhausted? Because he wasn't exhausted, he was unconscious. He's also been floored several times since then.

Edison Miranda is better known than Mundine (outside of maybe Aus.). Like you say, he has flaws which Kessler will be able to exploit, thus making Kessler look good. If Kessler looks good against a fairly highly-regarded, somewhat feared, and very popular fighter, how will he not be given credit? You still haven't explained why he wouldn't. Regardless of Miranda's faults, he is more well-known, and more highly regarded than Mundine by the majority of people, thus he will be given a ton of credit if he beats Miranda and looks good doing so. Regardless of which fighter (Miranda or Mundine) possess better skill.

Again, to your point about fighting Andrade, why should Miranda have to wait 3 - 4 months MINIMUM for Andrade to be ready to fight? And you want him to take a tune-up on ESPN in the meantime, then fight Andrade, then fight Kessler? So unless Miranda is fighting every 2 months, he should have to wait 1 - 1 1/2 years to fight Kessler? Why would he do that? What if he gets butted and suffers a serious cut or something during the ESPN fight? Whose to say where Kessler will be by that point, or do you expect him to sit idle and wait for Miranda.
Your proposal makes ZERO buisness sense. None. A better proposal would be to forget about Kessler all together if he doesn't want to fight. Miranda could try calling out a Bute or a Bika, or another highly-regarded fighter. I'd still like to see him fight Pascal, but Pascal got spooked. I'd actually also quite like to see a Miranda - Mundine fight, but that doesn't fit what seems to Mundine's plan of fighting guys who pose little threat to him.

You challenge me to name one champ that Miranda has beaten, which isn't really relevent considering Mundine has never beaten a champ either, though almost everyone feels Miranda beat Abraham - a champ. That's one more champ than Mundine has ever beat. And how am I "blowing smoke into a hype machine"? I said I thought Miranda would be beaten by Kessler rather easily, that's a strange way to hype someone up.

You compare the improvement of Mundine since Ottke (which I will grant you, he's vastly improved) to Miranda's improvement since Pavlik. Mundine has fought over 20 times since then, Miranda has fought twice since Pavlik, looking very good in both fights. It remains to be seen how much Miranda has improved, but your point is completely invalid because of the vast difference in time between the Ottke - Mudine fight and the Pavlik -Miranda fight.

Also, when Sam Soliman is the best fighter you can point to Mundine beating, it doesn't make Mundine look very good. Miranda would SMOKE Soliman if they fought. It doesn't matter if Soliman gave Winky a tough fight, styles makes fights, and if Winky had any power he would have had a much easier time with Soliman, and like Amat mentioned, Wright was ill.

I would take Banks over Echols, and maybe over Soliman and Green as well.
Additionally, I don't know how many times I have to say this to you, you keep asking why I think Miranda would be successful against Kessler -
I DO NOT THINK MIRANDA WOULD DO WELL AGAINST KESSLER! So stop acting like that is what I am saying. For fucksake.

Sorry if this is kind of a scattered post, I tried to respond to each of your points, if you need any clarification just ask.

Mundine down several times since Ottke fight? Ok name these several times.
Banks better than Green, Soliman and Echols? U are fucking kidding right?