If Calzaghe beats Hopkins will he be higher on the all time p4p rankings?

[Kev]

This is an interesting argument, because there is truth to it in many cases. It's a bit of a circular argument in this case because it presupposes your answer to the original question. If Hopkins is as good now as he ever has been, then naturally a Calzaghe win would dictate that he's a better fighter and it gives him the maximum amount of credit toward his "legacy" no matter how he performs.

I disagree, but it's not obvious that you're wrong. Bernard can't fight his former self so there's no way to really know.

What we do know is that Hopkins' performance at his age is part of what makes his resume so impressive. His dedication and his style (whether you perceive it as "boring" or "intelligent") are not separate from his "talent" -- they all go together. That's why Calzaghe beating him now doesn't necessarily measure up to what Bernard himself has already accomplished.

Yeah I agree it was a bit circular. Don't get me wrong I do think BHop has slipped a little bit but not by much.

I mean can anyone point me in the direction of Hopkins great earlier fights?

I've seen most of his career and he to my mind has never put on a really dominating performance against a world class fighter from his own weight class.

Oscar, Trindidad, Jones, Tarver and Winky aside Hopkins hasn't beaten anybody extraordinary, and of the names above Oscar and Trinidad were well out of their natural weight classes, Winky was also well out of his weight class. Tarver imo is Hopkins best ever win, and he was so flat that night that it's hard to give Hopkins the full credit for that one, Tarver just looked awful.

There's not a single name on BHops resume that I think Joe would have struggled with, well Roy Jones obviously but he beat Hopkins.

Hopkins has made his name off the back of fighting legendary welterweights and junior middleweights. Take those off his resume and there's no more substance than Joe's record.

I think if Joe beats B Hop, then goes on to beat Pavlik, Taylor or Tarver he goes higher all time for me.

True he would have fought his defining fights late, but then B Hop fought them even later

What did Hagler do. Your a hypocrite cause i bet u respect hagler though he did the same thing. His claim to fame was beatin a LW and WW. But at least Hopkins never lost to anyone smaller. But from a LB4Lb sense joe hasnt beatin anyone as good dlh and i think dlh was the weakest on hops resume. I gotta question for you. If floyd fought cotto and cotto won could we then discredit his win cause floyd started at 130? Nah no one would say that. I just think its bull that u tryin to do that now to give joe credibility. Facts is fact. The majority of the world picked tito over hop. Im lookin at the ring mag from 2001 right now where they do the pre-fight predictions. Guess what? 15 out of 20 boxing experts picked tito to win. But after he got dominanted he was too small but he wasnt to small after he sparked joppy out in 5. Why does everyone say tarver was flat like hop had nothing to do with that. tarver wasnt flat he was tentative. Tarver lookd like tarver when the fight started. But when he realized hopkins was gonna run from him like roy he got scared, and when he almost got dropped that was it for him. he got beat mentally and fought the rest of the fight to survive. Boxing aint always about size its about skill. and skill wise joe and hops resumes are leagues apart.

If Floyd lost to Cotto it would be a big win for Cotto because Floyd is a proven great at welterwight, the undisputed Ring champion at that weight and also a belt holder at 154.

De La Hoya did as much at 160 as Ricky Hatton has done at 147, i.e win a fight that everybody thought he lost and then get KTFO, i.e in most people's eyes his middleweight record was 0-2

Tito's record above 154 is 3-3. Ok it's unfair to count the Jones fight where he was at a huge weight disadvantage but even so a 3-2 record is hardly world class.

Beside's Tito is Hopkins biggest career win. It's a good win and has significance in a historical sense but I think you are kidding yourself if you think he was a tougher challenge than Kessler at 168.

A far more well known opponent yes, and a higher one on the all time p4p certainly but he's recognised for his brilliance at welterwieght and junior middle not at 160.

If Joe Calzaghe fought Shane Mosely after he's fought Hopkins or Miguel Cotto I certainly wouldn't give him a huge amount of credit for those wins and I'm guessing neither would you.

I'm not knocking Hopkins, I thin he's an all time great, I'm just saying that if he does lose to Calzaghe imo Calzaghe's resume will be better, undefeated, a two weight world champ and wins over prime undefeated opponents in Kessler and Lacy who were actually fighting in their natural weight class.

Wins over Oscar and Tito at middleweight and Winky at 170 whilst still good wins don't mean as much to me as wins over a prime opponent undefeated in that weight class.

I also agree that history will judge Hopkins better, BUT if Joe can beat for exampl Kelly Pavlik or the winner of Woods and Tarver after a Hopkins win imo he will have had a better career than B Hop