Antonio Margarito is the real deal and I'm just a hatin fool for not recognizing.

[LEGION]

I actually give Cotto a much better chance at beating Floyd than Tony. Tony tends to plod forward sometimes, and will take shots to get in. Floyd will hit and run; and even if Tony manages to get inside Floyd, I still see Floyd being able to hang in there and use his speed to land inside; and get out fast. Floyd's defense is still the best in the business.

Cotto seems much improved in his boxing and uses his jab to great efficiency. And his has good timing; though no one is as good as Floyd. I see neither beating Floyd really, but I wouuld have to edge it to Cotto if I had to choose one to dethrone Pretty Boy.

Tony looked good last night on a guy who has a typical bully mentality. Likes to dominate and impose his will with his heavy hands, but can't come close to taking what he dishes out. Like I said yesterday in another thread, Cintron looked ready to flee against Feliciano, a guy who couldn't put a punch combination together to save his life, but who has a great beard. Tony can take a shot AND put punches together, and anyone that has those 2 things can beat a Cintron 8 days a week.

Cotto beat up a guy who really had no business being put in with the lion. Cotto/Margarito fight has to happen to see who should be the guy who gets a crack at Floyd; though Cotto already deserves that shot anyways.

[El Kabong]

Alfonso Gomez had fought at 160 so don't give me that "he had no business being in the ring with Cotto" bs!


Sure Floyd is technically skilled and has great handspeed and a different kind of power than Cotto or Toni but I just think he's a fragile fighter and no one has really put him to the test other than an old De la Hoya and hell I think Floyd was lucky to get away with that fight with a 0 in the loss column. Oscar didn't try to punish Floyd...everyone wants to work in around Floyd's defense via the jab and combinations....Miguel will beat up the defense and Floyd will take punishment either on his defense or through his defense.


Cotto is waiting to be an attractive fight for Floyd....and that is smart because when Floyd wants to fight HIM and not the other way around Cotto then holds all the cards and can affect the amount of money he's going to get AND more importantly the size of the ring.

[Deanrw]

Alfonso Gomez had fought at 160 so don't give me that "he had no business being in the ring with Cotto" bs!


Sure Floyd is technically skilled and has great handspeed and a different kind of power than Cotto or Toni but I just think he's a fragile fighter and no one has really put him to the test other than an old De la Hoya and hell I think Floyd was lucky to get away with that fight with a 0 in the loss column. Oscar didn't try to punish Floyd...everyone wants to work in around Floyd's defense via the jab and combinations....Miguel will beat up the defense and Floyd will take punishment either on his defense or through his defense.


Cotto is waiting to be an attractive fight for Floyd....and that is smart because when Floyd wants to fight HIM and not the other way around Cotto then holds all the cards and can affect the amount of money he's going to get AND more importantly the size of the ring.

Rep for that. I really think both can be too strong for him. I think both would either outpoint Floyd by putting him into a defensive shell and outwork him, or methodically break him down, force him to fight and stop him. Floyd is a great fighter, but these are two incredible strong fighters, in their prime, and on a mission.

I don't think Floyd wants to face guys like that right now. I think his heart is on making some good money before retiring, but no longer in the sport. I doubt we will see Floyd fight either of them.

[OumaFan]

Alfonso Gomez had fought at 160 so don't give me that "he had no business being in the ring with Cotto" bs!


Sure Floyd is technically skilled and has great handspeed and a different kind of power than Cotto or Toni but I just think he's a fragile fighter and no one has really put him to the test other than an old De la Hoya and hell I think Floyd was lucky to get away with that fight with a 0 in the loss column. Oscar didn't try to punish Floyd...everyone wants to work in around Floyd's defense via the jab and combinations....Miguel will beat up the defense and Floyd will take punishment either on his defense or through his defense.


Cotto is waiting to be an attractive fight for Floyd....and that is smart because when Floyd wants to fight HIM and not the other way around Cotto then holds all the cards and can affect the amount of money he's going to get AND more importantly the size of the ring.

Maybe "he had no business being in the ring with Cotto" is a bit much, maybe, but he had almost no shot to beat him, I don't care what (unnatural) weight he'd fought at. I say almost just cause I guess any boxer has some sort of chance to win any certain fight.

[LEGION]

Alfonso Gomez had fought at 160 so don't give me that "he had no business being in the ring with Cotto" bs!


Sure Floyd is technically skilled and has great handspeed and a different kind of power than Cotto or Toni but I just think he's a fragile fighter and no one has really put him to the test other than an old De la Hoya and hell I think Floyd was lucky to get away with that fight with a 0 in the loss column. Oscar didn't try to punish Floyd...everyone wants to work in around Floyd's defense via the jab and combinations....Miguel will beat up the defense and Floyd will take punishment either on his defense or through his defense.


Cotto is waiting to be an attractive fight for Floyd....and that is smart because when Floyd wants to fight HIM and not the other way around Cotto then holds all the cards and can affect the amount of money he's going to get AND more importantly the size of the ring.

I guess it's easy to say, after the fact, that Gomez had no business being in with Cotto{seeing as how it went down}. I just never personally really thought he had a chance in hell to win that fight.

All credit to Gomez for taking the shot given to him, and best wishes to him, but he was so outclassed as to almost be criminal. But I guess those things happen. I think Gomez would have done better to get a couple of other fights with, say, Cintron or Clottey, etc., before trying to get in with Miguel. Kind of like Hatton fighting Collazo, then Urango and Castillo and thinking he could go to war against Floyd?? Kind of putting the horse before the cart. I understand though the financial/notoriety gains from doing those kinds of things, but looked how it ended up working out...pretty bad. I wonder if Gomez wishes now he had maybe climbed the ladder a little more cautiously. All respect to him though.

[amat]

Some very good posting in this thread.

I don't think Margarito's win has any bearing on how I look at his loss to Williams. He beat Cintron before he fought Williams and Williams beat Cintron with movement, the same way Floyd would beat Margarito imo. When Margarito had his high spots in the Williams fight, it wasn't because Margarito all the sudden tried to fight, it was because Williams was getting flatfooted and wasn't able to provide the same movement. I think a rematch goes pretty much the same way.

That's not to discredit Margarito though, really, who didn't expect this? We all knew Tony hit hard, Cintron was more game and was able to land more punches but this didn't look all to different from the first fight. Tony was better technically but like p4pking said earlier, everything this night went completely as expected. Don't know why people would think otherwise.

I agree with Lyle in that Cotto is going to pick Margarito apart. I think Margarito is going to be able to scare him a few times throughout the fight but Margarito isn't exactly a short puncher and Cotto blocks punches very well from the outside, it's the inside and while setting up that he gets tagged the most. I think Cotto will get inside the long punches of Margarito and cash his check to the body. Don't think anybody is ever going to stop Margarito, but Cotto has a better chance then anyone because he goes to the body.

This is going to be a great fight though. Tony did look good but don't think he beats Cotto.

[Taeth]

Alfonso Gomez had fought at 160 so don't give me that "he had no business being in the ring with Cotto" bs!


Sure Floyd is technically skilled and has great handspeed and a different kind of power than Cotto or Toni but I just think he's a fragile fighter and no one has really put him to the test other than an old De la Hoya and hell I think Floyd was lucky to get away with that fight with a 0 in the loss column. Oscar didn't try to punish Floyd...everyone wants to work in around Floyd's defense via the jab and combinations....Miguel will beat up the defense and Floyd will take punishment either on his defense or through his defense.


Cotto is waiting to be an attractive fight for Floyd....and that is smart because when Floyd wants to fight HIM and not the other way around Cotto then holds all the cards and can affect the amount of money he's going to get AND more importantly the size of the ring.

Your wrong on all accounts. First of all Oscar did try to punish Floyd, he isn't a dirty fighter, but he was trying to get Floyd on the ropes and do everything he could to rough Mayweather up. As for nobody ever really testing Mayweather, have you seen more than like his last 4 fights? Here are the guys who tested him, or tried to

Demarcus Corley
Emmanuel Burton(watch this fight before you even start to talk)
Corrales tried to, but Mayweather movement was too good for him, and could be for COtto as well.
Castillo x 2
Victoriano Sosa
Jesus Chavez
Ricky Hatton(he was trying to rough Mayweather up on the inside, and he wasn't able to do that at all)

All of these guys tried to fight a tough fight with Mayweather and all of them failed. Castillo got away with murder in terms of punching and holding in Mayweather-Castillo I and thats where a lot of his punches in punchstat were given to him, but he still lost that fight by a round, and the second fight by 4 or 5 rounds.

Oscar didn't really Mayweather even close to a lot of these fights that had Mayweather bleeding from the nose, and an eye, and he, FLoyd, never folded once. Also when Mayweather broke his hand against Hernandez he finished the fight even though he severly broke his left hand.

[El Kabong]

I have boxed before thank you very much.

De la Hoya and all the rest of the fighters you mentioned wanted to work through Floyd's defense....Miguel Cotto is not going to do that.

When I say "work through the defense" I mean find openings and set up your punches like any normal fighter and any normal fight. The thing is Floyd isn't any normal fighter and when you're fighting him it's not going to be any normal fight. Miguel Cotto is going to hit Floyd Mayweather Jr. where ever he wants to AND it's going to hurt.

No De la Hoya isn't a dirty fighter and it did come back to kind of hurt him...people want Floyd to sit still or stop throwing punches so they can hit him...that is where the timing comes into play and Floyd like any fighter has tendencies and things he likes to do and it's up to Cotto to figure out how to make him pay for those tendencies.


As for Margarito he's tall, he fights short...it's never a positive thing to do to give up your height. He has long arms and he likes fighting on the inside....when is that good to do? What good is being 5'11 vs a shorter fighter if you're not going to use it. As for Margarito's defense he likes to have his hands straight up and down and a little bit apart...when you're in a crouch and you have a guard like that what punch would YOU throw against him? UPPERCUT especially if he's coming forward! You throw that land effectively and his arms close up a little bit to try and stop you and then it's time for the left hook to start landing.

Sure Cotto is going to have to bring his defensive 'A game' but his defense has shown to be more effective than Margarito's....correct me if I'm wrong but Cotto has shown what a good boxer he is in his last couple of fights. And he can move and use defense to block punches, his cross blocking is perfect to block any uppercuts. And vs uppercuts you can counter a number of ways but look at Ali-Frazier I, the knockdown was an Uppercut vs a Hook and the hook landed first, it was a different fight and a different style matchup BUT YES the hook can counter the uppercut.

But hey that's just my opinion, if you want to be an asshole and bring things up like "I am getting the feeling you have never boxed before" then fine but I believe everything I have listed gives a good account of the style matchup everyone can expect. You go ahead and tell me where I am wrong but I swear I'll be right in someone else's opinion and you'll be right in another because very few things are concrete in boxing when it comes to strategy, it's like rock, paper, scissors...something always balances another thing out. I am just giving my opinion...so don't be a dick

[Macho]

I have boxed before thank you very much.

De la Hoya and all the rest of the fighters you mentioned wanted to work through Floyd's defense....Miguel Cotto is not going to do that.

When I say "work through the defense" I mean find openings and set up your punches like any normal fighter and any normal fight. The thing is Floyd isn't any normal fighter and when you're fighting him it's not going to be any normal fight. Miguel Cotto is going to hit Floyd Mayweather Jr. where ever he wants to AND it's going to hurt.

No De la Hoya isn't a dirty fighter and it did come back to kind of hurt him...people want Floyd to sit still or stop throwing punches so they can hit him...that is where the timing comes into play and Floyd like any fighter has tendencies and things he likes to do and it's up to Cotto to figure out how to make him pay for those tendencies.


As for Margarito he's tall, he fights short...it's never a positive thing to do to give up your height. He has long arms and he likes fighting on the inside....when is that good to do? What good is being 5'11 vs a shorter fighter if you're not going to use it. As for Margarito's defense he likes to have his hands straight up and down and a little bit apart...when you're in a crouch and you have a guard like that what punch would YOU throw against him? UPPERCUT especially if he's coming forward! You throw that land effectively and his arms close up a little bit to try and stop you and then it's time for the left hook to start landing.

Sure Cotto is going to have to bring his defensive 'A game' but his defense has shown to be more effective than Margarito's....correct me if I'm wrong but Cotto has shown what a good boxer he is in his last couple of fights. And he can move and use defense to block punches, his cross blocking is perfect to block any uppercuts. And vs uppercuts you can counter a number of ways but look at Ali-Frazier I, the knockdown was an Uppercut vs a Hook and the hook landed first, it was a different fight and a different style matchup BUT YES the hook can counter the uppercut.

But hey that's just my opinion, if you want to be an asshole and bring things up like "I am getting the feeling you have never boxed before" then fine but I believe everything I have listed gives a good account of the style matchup everyone can expect. You go ahead and tell me where I am wrong but I swear I'll be right in someone else's opinion and you'll be right in another because very few things are concrete in boxing when it comes to strategy, it's like rock, paper, scissors...something always balances another thing out. I am just giving my opinion...so don't be a dick

Hey bro.....i think this guy owe you a real REP man......

[Taeth]

I have boxed before thank you very much.

De la Hoya and all the rest of the fighters you mentioned wanted to work through Floyd's defense....Miguel Cotto is not going to do that.

When I say "work through the defense" I mean find openings and set up your punches like any normal fighter and any normal fight. The thing is Floyd isn't any normal fighter and when you're fighting him it's not going to be any normal fight. Miguel Cotto is going to hit Floyd Mayweather Jr. where ever he wants to AND it's going to hurt.

No De la Hoya isn't a dirty fighter and it did come back to kind of hurt him...people want Floyd to sit still or stop throwing punches so they can hit him...that is where the timing comes into play and Floyd like any fighter has tendencies and things he likes to do and it's up to Cotto to figure out how to make him pay for those tendencies.


As for Margarito he's tall, he fights short...it's never a positive thing to do to give up your height. He has long arms and he likes fighting on the inside....when is that good to do? What good is being 5'11 vs a shorter fighter if you're not going to use it. As for Margarito's defense he likes to have his hands straight up and down and a little bit apart...when you're in a crouch and you have a guard like that what punch would YOU throw against him? UPPERCUT especially if he's coming forward! You throw that land effectively and his arms close up a little bit to try and stop you and then it's time for the left hook to start landing.

Sure Cotto is going to have to bring his defensive 'A game' but his defense has shown to be more effective than Margarito's....correct me if I'm wrong but Cotto has shown what a good boxer he is in his last couple of fights. And he can move and use defense to block punches, his cross blocking is perfect to block any uppercuts. And vs uppercuts you can counter a number of ways but look at Ali-Frazier I, the knockdown was an Uppercut vs a Hook and the hook landed first, it was a different fight and a different style matchup BUT YES the hook can counter the uppercut.

But hey that's just my opinion, if you want to be an asshole and bring things up like "I am getting the feeling you have never boxed before" then fine but I believe everything I have listed gives a good account of the style matchup everyone can expect. You go ahead and tell me where I am wrong but I swear I'll be right in someone else's opinion and you'll be right in another because very few things are concrete in boxing when it comes to strategy, it's like rock, paper, scissors...something always balances another thing out. I am just giving my opinion...so don't be a dick

I am not trying to an asshole about the boxing thing, but in the gym you find pretty quickly that how Cotto holds his hands(beside his head) he eats uppercuts all day, Mosley when he threw the few he did landed them, Judah landed them when he threw them, even Gomez landed an uppercut or two in their fight even though he couldn't land anything else Torrest ripped Cotto a new one with uppercuts. That IMO is the only punch that really lands on Cotto effectively because the right hand over top is usually hitting his glove, and or the top of his head which doesn't really hurt, and only really skilled boxers can time it so they hit Cotto just as he's throwing his punches, Mosley was able to do that, but I doubt Margarito has the skill to do this.

AS for Mayweather vs Cotto what is Cotto going to do if he isn't going to work through Mayweather's defense? Hatton had a unique ability to land punches as well, also was a good body puncher, and Mayweather totally limited Hatton's connect % to only 18. Both Oscar and Hatton had way more footspeed than Cotto which allowed them to keep Floyd against the ropes.
Now where it gets interesting is Mayweather is able to avoid punches no matter who he is fighting he figures how to avoid being hit very often. Judah was hitting him early with 57% of his powerpunches, but by the end it was down to 29%, and in the last round he missed almost every power punch he threw. I think earlier on Mayweather needed to get used to Judah's speed and the fact Mayweather was closing the distance when usually its the other fighter.
Now what makes this interesting is that Cotto has been able to land solid shots on everyone he has faced. He has faced slick fighters in Judah, Malignaggi, and Mosley(sort of), and he has been able to hit them all early. Now none of these guys are particularly great defensively though Mosley used to have a lot better defense when he was younger, Judah doesn't switch up his defense so its easy to figure him out because he doesn't use a lot of head movement, and he never really brought his right hand up to block Cotto's jab. Maglinaggi probably had the best defense of all three of them at this point in their careers and Cotto hit him easily. However Mayweather is a whole other story, he is the only one who has better timing than Cotto, and speed, and didn't crack under the pressure(like Judah who had the other two components). Mayweather loves going backwards unlike two of these three fighters, and Paulie fought aggressively against Cotto because, I assume, of the early cut. This leads me to believe Mayweather who has faced a lot more good offensive fighters will find a way to negate Cotto's offense, because while Cotto has one of the best offenses today Mayweather has one of the three best defenses ever(along with Pep and Whitaker)

[El Gamo]

Have some rep on me JT,nice to know that you see something in Tony and aren't afraid to admit. You've slated that guy alot in the past,as have most posting in this thread so it's cool to see.

Amat and P4P King,I disagree that we didn't see anything new. Margarito was jabbing quite a bit. His handspeed looked slightly quicker(still not great but trust me,it was better than usual) and he was using head movement after he realised Kermit would just keep pumping the jab.He also started quciker. Those are improvements imo. And sure he was favourite to win but after round 1,I was getting nervous!He adjusted well to get onto the inside.

Someone with slick movement and good jab would cause him problems but I wouldn't discount him. The 2 guys that have beante him:Williams(threw 1,2000 plus punches,was taller,bigger) and Santos(Tony should have gotten the decision,Santos was MUCH bigger), you're not going to find 2 guys like that at WW.

[amat]

I actually did notice the head movement, he did a bit of bobbing and weaving and thought he intergrated that pretty well on the inside. And I was wrong, he can punch short on the inside but I think the smaller Cotto will still be able to slip and block most everything and punch in between Margarito's long punches.