I'd like the Calzaghe victory to be the final chapter.

[ICB]

You are coming across like a hater. You also picked Hopkins to win, did you not? And dont talk the rubbish about going back and forth on who would win, ultimately you picked Hopkins. When it came to the actual fight you were watching it and hoping your pick would come off. You got it wrong and yet its your arrogance that doesnt allow you to accept your pick was simply wrong. Get over it!! Seriously.

I said Hopkins by controversial decision meaning i didn't think Calzaghe would get the nod in a close fight. I was shocked Calzaghe got the nod against Hopkins to be honest in such a close fight as well. And Miles you were also badly wrong was you not ?? you picked Calzaghe to dominate Hopkins and i told you no one dominates Hopkins and it would comeback to haunt you. But everything i said before the fight was correct regarding the tactics of the fight.

Yes, I said Calzaghe would beat up Hopkins. Ive no qualms with that. Hopkins was sharper and also dirtier than I was prepared for. But ultimately JC outlanded Hopkins and in most of the rounds. In the championship rounds Calzaghe was increasing the pressure and landing harder blows. Hopkins NEEDED those timeouts just to get through it. Calzaghe wasnt there to spoil, he brought the fight to Hopkins and he threw and landed a lot more.

I dont see what you are arguing really.

What im arguing is that what i implied is that really i thought Calzaghe would win like 7-5 but i didn't think he would get the decision in USA. Thats why i picked Hopkins by "Controversial" decision do you see what i mean now ??

[donnydarkoIRL]

When Hopkins threw most of the time he was landing, i couldn't care less what the punch stats say i looked back at the exchanges in slow motion and Hopkins punches were much more effective. Mayweather in the ODLH fight was only throwing 35 punches a round yet he still won clear cut, by making his punches count then he threw and thats what its all about, its no good throwing 90 punches a round if hardly any of them are effective IMO anyway.

Ice, you've all too often quoted compubox and advocated it's use.
Yet you turn around and come out wityh that?

Mayweather's performances cannot be compared to Hopkins.
Bernard was looking for a singhle shot and it would have been impressive had he stopped Calzaghe in that fashion.
Mayweather makes the opponent resepect his power by throwing in combination. Those are two things Bernard failed to do.
Ypu cannot say that Calzaghe respected Bernards power or was afraid of getting stopped when he was the aggresive fighter all night.

If landing less-telling punches meant that fighters would not be scored rounds, then fighters like Malignaggi, Williams and even the great Pernell Whittaker wouldn't be succesful at all.

Exactly. Calzaghe was always the busier man and landing more. And his punches were becoming more significant as the fight wore on. Hopkins wasnt doing much towards the end.

True.
Bernard was tired at the end and used the last low blow to grab a break.

The only time i've ever used punchstats is for the ODLH vs Mayweather fight, and even those stats aren't completely accurate either. Im not turning anything around the fact is Hopkins landed the cleaner more effective blows, in some of those rounds according to punchstats Calzaghe out landed Hopkins by 9 or 10 punches, for example in the 10th round according to the stats Hopkins landed 13 punches, where as Calzaghe landed 23 punches, now out of those 13 punches they were all clean effective punches, where as Calzaghe's 23 punches were mostly pitter patter, im actually glad now you gave me the punch stats because you have actually helped my argument, i scored the 10th round for Hopkins, the 8th round for Hopkins, Hopkins landed 15 punches in the 8th round, where as Calzaghe landed 22, now again 15 of Hopkins punches were effective where as Calzaghe's 22 punches were mostly pitter patter, I also scored all the first 4 rounds for Hopkins based on his punches being more effective. The punchstats in those rounds aren't one sided at all when you take into account how many of Hopkins punches were solid effective punches, where as Calzaghe was mostly landing pitter patter. Again Donny your missing the point i never compared Mayweather to Hopkins in that way, what i meant is that Hopkins out put was low like Mayweather's but when he threw he made his punches count.

Initially, these 3 threads prove that you have indeed advocated punch stats in the past and gone against others who claimed their fighter scored the cleaner harder punches.
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingforum/34622-what-courage-pernell-whitaker-felix-trindad-fight.html

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingforum/34264-lewis-holyfield-1-a.html

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...isgrace-2.html

Ice, if you get into the ring and get hit by an elite level boxer, even his jabs will hurt. "pitty Pat" punching is disrespectful to the sport. You know this.
By disrespecting a victorious world champion you disrespect the sport.


Mayweather raised his punch output every time he has needed to. Hopkins was trying to grab a break for the last six rounds.

Fact is, Calzaghe won fairly.

[ICB]

Ice, you've all too often quoted compubox and advocated it's use.
Yet you turn around and come out wityh that?

Mayweather's performances cannot be compared to Hopkins.
Bernard was looking for a singhle shot and it would have been impressive had he stopped Calzaghe in that fashion.
Mayweather makes the opponent resepect his power by throwing in combination. Those are two things Bernard failed to do.
Ypu cannot say that Calzaghe respected Bernards power or was afraid of getting stopped when he was the aggresive fighter all night.

If landing less-telling punches meant that fighters would not be scored rounds, then fighters like Malignaggi, Williams and even the great Pernell Whittaker wouldn't be succesful at all.


True.
Bernard was tired at the end and used the last low blow to grab a break.

The only time i've ever used punchstats is for the ODLH vs Mayweather fight, and even those stats aren't completely accurate either. Im not turning anything around the fact is Hopkins landed the cleaner more effective blows, in some of those rounds according to punchstats Calzaghe out landed Hopkins by 9 or 10 punches, for example in the 10th round according to the stats Hopkins landed 13 punches, where as Calzaghe landed 23 punches, now out of those 13 punches they were all clean effective punches, where as Calzaghe's 23 punches were mostly pitter patter, im actually glad now you gave me the punch stats because you have actually helped my argument, i scored the 10th round for Hopkins, the 8th round for Hopkins, Hopkins landed 15 punches in the 8th round, where as Calzaghe landed 22, now again 15 of Hopkins punches were effective where as Calzaghe's 22 punches were mostly pitter patter, I also scored all the first 4 rounds for Hopkins based on his punches being more effective. The punchstats in those rounds aren't one sided at all when you take into account how many of Hopkins punches were solid effective punches, where as Calzaghe was mostly landing pitter patter. Again Donny your missing the point i never compared Mayweather to Hopkins in that way, what i meant is that Hopkins out put was low like Mayweather's but when he threw he made his punches count.

Initially, these 3 threads prove that you have indeed advocated punch stats in the past and gone against others who claimed their fighter scored the cleaner harder punches.
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingforum/34622-what-courage-pernell-whitaker-felix-trindad-fight.html

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingforum/34264-lewis-holyfield-1-a.html

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...isgrace-2.html

Ice, if you get into the ring and get hit by an elite level boxer, even his jabs will hurt. "pitty Pat" punching is disrespectful to the sport. You know this.
By disrespecting a victorious world champion you disrespect the sport.


Mayweather raised his punch output every time he has needed to. Hopkins was trying to grab a break for the last six rounds.

Fact is, Calzaghe won fairly.

Oh please Donny i hinted once at the punch stats in Marquez vs Pacquiao 2 fight because someone was going on about opinions don't matter thats why i mentioned punch stats or something like that, and Lewis vs Holyfield 1 and Pernell Whitaker vs Chavez are you being serious Donny ?? i mentioned that because they were robberies thats completely different. I just mis read what you said regarding Whitaker you was on about Tito vs Whitaker, well i will correct myself and say i mentioned punch stats in that fight because i was shocked the punch stats were so close considering Tito won about 9 rounds.

And are you trying to be funny or something Donny ?? i respect the sport more than your ever know. I train very hard when im getting ready for a fight and i respect every boxer who has a go at boxing it takes a lot of courage to get into the ring, most of my family have done boxing and i was brought up to respect boxing so please do not go there with me Donny, so what other way should i describe Calzaghe flurries in Hopkins fight ?? he throws a lot of those punches with almost an open glove which is pitter patter to me.

[leftylee]

I can see were ICB is coming from. He liked the more effective but less thrown shots from Hopkins and combined with the KD felt Hop should have won. Others might like Calzaghe's workrate, pressure and punches thrown however most Calzaghe's shots were slaps IMO. I thought the fight was a draw and I ain't complaining that Calzaghe got it coz I wouldn't be if Hopkins got it. Either way it was very close.

[ICB]

I can see were ICB is coming from. He liked the more effective but less thrown shots from Hopkins and combined with the KD felt Hop should have won. Others might like Calzaghe's workrate, pressure and punches thrown however most Calzaghe's shots were slaps IMO. I thought the fight was a draw and I ain't complaining that Calzaghe got it coz I wouldn't be if Hopkins got it. Either way it was very close.

Good post about time have some rep on me Lee.

[leftylee]

I can see were ICB is coming from. He liked the more effective but less thrown shots from Hopkins and combined with the KD felt Hop should have won. Others might like Calzaghe's workrate, pressure and punches thrown however most Calzaghe's shots were slaps IMO. I thought the fight was a draw and I ain't complaining that Calzaghe got it coz I wouldn't be if Hopkins got it. Either way it was very close.

Good post about time have some rep on me Lee.

Thanks, have some rep back

[donnydarkoIRL]

The only time i've ever used punchstats is for the ODLH vs Mayweather fight, and even those stats aren't completely accurate either. Im not turning anything around the fact is Hopkins landed the cleaner more effective blows, in some of those rounds according to punchstats Calzaghe out landed Hopkins by 9 or 10 punches, for example in the 10th round according to the stats Hopkins landed 13 punches, where as Calzaghe landed 23 punches, now out of those 13 punches they were all clean effective punches, where as Calzaghe's 23 punches were mostly pitter patter, im actually glad now you gave me the punch stats because you have actually helped my argument, i scored the 10th round for Hopkins, the 8th round for Hopkins, Hopkins landed 15 punches in the 8th round, where as Calzaghe landed 22, now again 15 of Hopkins punches were effective where as Calzaghe's 22 punches were mostly pitter patter, I also scored all the first 4 rounds for Hopkins based on his punches being more effective. The punchstats in those rounds aren't one sided at all when you take into account how many of Hopkins punches were solid effective punches, where as Calzaghe was mostly landing pitter patter. Again Donny your missing the point i never compared Mayweather to Hopkins in that way, what i meant is that Hopkins out put was low like Mayweather's but when he threw he made his punches count.

Initially, these 3 threads prove that you have indeed advocated punch stats in the past and gone against others who claimed their fighter scored the cleaner harder punches.
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingforum/34622-what-courage-pernell-whitaker-felix-trindad-fight.html

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingforum/34264-lewis-holyfield-1-a.html

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...isgrace-2.html

Ice, if you get into the ring and get hit by an elite level boxer, even his jabs will hurt. "pitty Pat" punching is disrespectful to the sport. You know this.
By disrespecting a victorious world champion you disrespect the sport.


Mayweather raised his punch output every time he has needed to. Hopkins was trying to grab a break for the last six rounds.

Fact is, Calzaghe won fairly.

Oh please Donny i hinted once at the punch stats in Marquez vs Pacquiao 2 fight because someone was going on about opinions don't matter thats why i mentioned punch stats or something like that, and Lewis vs Holyfield 1 and Pernell Whitaker vs Chavez are you being serious Donny ?? i mentioned that because they were robberies thats completely different. I just mis read what you said regarding Whitaker you was on about Tito vs Whitaker, well i will correct myself and say i mentioned punch stats in that fight because i was shocked the punch stats were so close considering Tito won about 9 rounds.

And are you trying to be funny or something Donny ?? i respect the sport more than your ever know. I train very hard when im getting ready for a fight and i respect every boxer who has a go at boxing it takes a lot of courage to get into the ring, most of my family have done boxing and i was brought up to respect boxing so please do not go there with me Donny, so what other way should i describe Calzaghe flurries in Hopkins fight ?? he throws a lot of those punches with almost an open glove which is pitter patter to me.

I'm not a funny guy at all, I'm deadly serious.
You claimed you never mentioned punch stats.
I just searched "Cold Boxing punch stats," and got hundreds of results.
Ice it's what you are famous for on this site, using punch stats.


Disrespecting a legitimate world champion who has proved his mettle against some very good fighters is not onle making light of his career, but of every opponent he ever faced, ever belt he ever held and every fan who ever supported him.

I'm not going to reply to your family details as thats when feelings get hurt.

Have you ever broken your hand?

[Gandalf]

I said Hopkins by controversial decision meaning i didn't think Calzaghe would get the nod in a close fight. I was shocked Calzaghe got the nod against Hopkins to be honest in such a close fight as well. And Miles you were also badly wrong was you not ?? you picked Calzaghe to dominate Hopkins and i told you no one dominates Hopkins and it would comeback to haunt you. But everything i said before the fight was correct regarding the tactics of the fight.

Yes, I said Calzaghe would beat up Hopkins. Ive no qualms with that. Hopkins was sharper and also dirtier than I was prepared for. But ultimately JC outlanded Hopkins and in most of the rounds. In the championship rounds Calzaghe was increasing the pressure and landing harder blows. Hopkins NEEDED those timeouts just to get through it. Calzaghe wasnt there to spoil, he brought the fight to Hopkins and he threw and landed a lot more.

I dont see what you are arguing really.

What im arguing is that what i implied is that really i thought Calzaghe would win like 7-5 but i didn't think he would get the decision in USA. Thats why i picked Hopkins by "Controversial" decision do you see what i mean now ??

Im talking about what are you arguing now. In regards to thinking Hopkins won. I could get what you are saying if it was a fight where the landed punches were close and one guy landed the harder shots. But not in a fight where the other guy was outlanded by over 100. Thats just delusional.

[ICB]

Yes, I said Calzaghe would beat up Hopkins. Ive no qualms with that. Hopkins was sharper and also dirtier than I was prepared for. But ultimately JC outlanded Hopkins and in most of the rounds. In the championship rounds Calzaghe was increasing the pressure and landing harder blows. Hopkins NEEDED those timeouts just to get through it. Calzaghe wasnt there to spoil, he brought the fight to Hopkins and he threw and landed a lot more.

I dont see what you are arguing really.

What im arguing is that what i implied is that really i thought Calzaghe would win like 7-5 but i didn't think he would get the decision in USA. Thats why i picked Hopkins by "Controversial" decision do you see what i mean now ??

Im talking about what are you arguing now. In regards to thinking Hopkins won. I could get what you are saying if it was a fight where the landed punches were close and one guy landed the harder shots. But not in a fight where the other guy was outlanded by over 100. Thats just delusional.

First off he did not out land Hopkins by almost 100 punches that is inaccurate stat, and secondly didn't Pavlik out land Taylor by almost 100 punches according to "Punchstats" in there 2nd fight ?? yet many people had Taylor winning that fight so are they all delusional as well ?? but the difference is here that Hopkins also scored a knock down which made the fight even closer.

[Gandalf]

What im arguing is that what i implied is that really i thought Calzaghe would win like 7-5 but i didn't think he would get the decision in USA. Thats why i picked Hopkins by "Controversial" decision do you see what i mean now ??

Im talking about what are you arguing now. In regards to thinking Hopkins won. I could get what you are saying if it was a fight where the landed punches were close and one guy landed the harder shots. But not in a fight where the other guy was outlanded by over 100. Thats just delusional.

First off he did not out land Hopkins by almost 100 punches that is inaccurate stat, and secondly didn't Pavlik out land Taylor by almost 100 punches according to "Punchstats" in there 2nd fight ?? yet many people had Taylor winning that fight so are they all delusional as well ?? but the difference is here that Hopkins also scored a knock down which made the fight even closer.

You saw only the fight you wanted to see and little will persuade you otherwise. Pavlik beat Taylor by my reckoning so I dont know what thats all about either. The Hopkins knockdown was 1 point extra and doesnt play a deciding role for me.

Do you remember Barrera: Marquez? I had issues with that scoring and so did you. Part of that was because Barrera was actually punch for punch with Marquez. I thought Barrera controlled more rounds than Marquez. Didnt Marquez land the harder shots there though? By this latest reckoning you should have scored that fight to Marquez.

At least try and be consistent with how you score a fight.

[ICB]

Im talking about what are you arguing now. In regards to thinking Hopkins won. I could get what you are saying if it was a fight where the landed punches were close and one guy landed the harder shots. But not in a fight where the other guy was outlanded by over 100. Thats just delusional.

First off he did not out land Hopkins by almost 100 punches that is inaccurate stat, and secondly didn't Pavlik out land Taylor by almost 100 punches according to "Punchstats" in there 2nd fight ?? yet many people had Taylor winning that fight so are they all delusional as well ?? but the difference is here that Hopkins also scored a knock down which made the fight even closer.

You saw only the fight you wanted to see and little will persuade you otherwise. Pavlik beat Taylor by my reckoning so I dont know what thats all about either. The Hopkins knockdown was 1 point extra and doesnt play a deciding role for me.

Do you remember Barrera: Marquez? I had issues with that scoring and so did you. Part of that was because Barrera was actually punch for punch with Marquez. I thought Barrera controlled more rounds than Marquez. Didnt Marquez land the harder shots there though? By this latest reckoning you should have scored that fight to Marquez.

At least try and be consistent with how you score a fight.

Firstly why are you comparing Marquez vs Barrera to Hopkins vs Calzaghe ?? there two totally different fights. Marquez landed more power punches according to punch stats but thats only because he had two one sided rounds especially the 7th so again its misleading stat, Barrera landed the harder shots IMO, did you see Marquez's face ?? he looked like he had been smashed into brick wall.

[Gandalf]

First off he did not out land Hopkins by almost 100 punches that is inaccurate stat, and secondly didn't Pavlik out land Taylor by almost 100 punches according to "Punchstats" in there 2nd fight ?? yet many people had Taylor winning that fight so are they all delusional as well ?? but the difference is here that Hopkins also scored a knock down which made the fight even closer.

You saw only the fight you wanted to see and little will persuade you otherwise. Pavlik beat Taylor by my reckoning so I dont know what thats all about either. The Hopkins knockdown was 1 point extra and doesnt play a deciding role for me.

Do you remember Barrera: Marquez? I had issues with that scoring and so did you. Part of that was because Barrera was actually punch for punch with Marquez. I thought Barrera controlled more rounds than Marquez. Didnt Marquez land the harder shots there though? By this latest reckoning you should have scored that fight to Marquez.

At least try and be consistent with how you score a fight.

Firstly why are you comparing Marquez vs Barrera to Hopkins vs Calzaghe ?? there two totally different fights. Marquez landed more power punches according to punch stats but thats only because he had two one sided rounds especially the 7th so again its misleading stat, Barrera landed the harder shots IMO, did you see Marquez's face ?? he looked like he had been smashed into brick wall.

You keep saying first or firstly and never actually follow up with a second or secondly.

Regardless, I bring it up because the way you argue is flawed and lacks consistency. Barrera was the controller of many of those rounds just as Calzaghe was against Hopkins. Barrera's big punch was essentially the jab against Marquez. It doesnt matter who landed the harder shots, at the end of the day. Barrera's harder shots were not even counted.

That was a fight that was close. This wasnt really that close. Is it really about "who has the most busted up face"? No it isnt. Not by a long shot.

[ICB]

You saw only the fight you wanted to see and little will persuade you otherwise. Pavlik beat Taylor by my reckoning so I dont know what thats all about either. The Hopkins knockdown was 1 point extra and doesnt play a deciding role for me.

Do you remember Barrera: Marquez? I had issues with that scoring and so did you. Part of that was because Barrera was actually punch for punch with Marquez. I thought Barrera controlled more rounds than Marquez. Didnt Marquez land the harder shots there though? By this latest reckoning you should have scored that fight to Marquez.

At least try and be consistent with how you score a fight.

Firstly why are you comparing Marquez vs Barrera to Hopkins vs Calzaghe ?? there two totally different fights. Marquez landed more power punches according to punch stats but thats only because he had two one sided rounds especially the 7th so again its misleading stat, Barrera landed the harder shots IMO, did you see Marquez's face ?? he looked like he had been smashed into brick wall.

You keep saying first or firstly and never actually follow up with a second or secondly.

Regardless, I bring it up because the way you argue is flawed and lacks consistency. Barrera was the controller of many of those rounds just as Calzaghe was against Hopkins. Barrera's big punch was essentially the jab against Marquez. It doesnt matter who landed the harder shots, at the end of the day. Barrera's harder shots were not even counted.

That was a fight that was close. This wasnt really that close. Is it really about "who has the most busted up face"? No it isnt. Not by a long shot.

See i hate when people try and pick apart my posting i think you need to look at yourself Miles, your comparing Barrera vs Marquez to Hopkins vs Calzaghe, and there not even comparable one little bit, first off it was not only that Marquez's face was busted up you could see Barrera was landing the slightly more hurtful shots. Secondly Hopkins vs Calzaghe is not even comparable Calzaghe was landing nowhere near with the some ferocity or power of Marquez or Barrera, Hopkins clearly landed the more hurtful shots and like i said if a boxer lands 10 power shots in a round and the other boxer lands 25 non effective punches then i'll score it for the guy who landed 10 power shots, just because i scored Marquez vs Barrera a draw and it was hard to score, doesn't mean i can't have Hopkins winning thats silly logic because every fight is different.