Was Muhammad Ali really the best

[Tito BHB]

Now the thing is he was "The Greatest"

Not neccesarily the best.. In my opinion you have to consider not just the way he fought and who he fought, but his character.. the time in which he was about.. and the circumstances surrounding him during the years in which he was in the publics eye..

He was entertaining, A poet, a comedian.. A heavyweight with fast hands, dancing feet, decent power.. A big mouth.. Plenty of great opposition to make him the legit name he became.. The circumstances of him refusing to go to war, became a muslim.. All of it together is just the story of a legend really..

And you kinda wish you knew as much about joe louis and sugar ray robinson so that they had as much publicism as ali and were as renound for theyr amazing skills..

But although greats themselves they couldnt have been as bold and demanded attention quite like ali..

But yeah i think he probably is the greatest.. In a literal sense.. But not specifically the bestt.

[El Kabong]

Hell Jack Johnson did everything Ali did only 50 years earlier

[DaxxKahn]

Hell Jack Johnson did everything Ali did only 50 years earlier

If you ever see footage of Jack...(What little there is of it).....He sure the hell was a slick ass fighter especially considerig when he was in an era where guys really just beat each other senmseless rather then box....

Public wise...I guess you could say Jack had problems with what Ali called the "White man"...He had to take some time out of the country...fight abroad....There are a lot of simularities

[ICB]

Record wise yes if we ignoring his gift decisions but IMO he is still overrated, he drew against Doug Jones IMO, he got lucky against Cooper having smelling salts which were illegal in UK at that time, he lost to Young, he lost to Shavers, he lost to Norton x2, And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

[amat]

Record wise yes if we ignoring his gift decisions but IMO he is still overrated, he drew against Doug Jones IMO, he got lucky against Cooper having smelling salts which were illegal in UK at that time, he lost to Young, he lost to Shavers, he lost to Norton x2, And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

The fight with Shavers was close, could have gone either way lots of close rounds but that was an older Ali and he had already delivered his last great hurrah. Same with Jones and Cooper.

And fighters legacies aren't defined by fights fought before they won the title. Roland Lastarza by many accounts beat Marciano when they fought before Marciano won the title but it does nothing to Rocky's legacy nor should it.

[ICB]

Record wise yes if we ignoring his gift decisions but IMO he is still overrated, he drew against Doug Jones IMO, he got lucky against Cooper having smelling salts which were illegal in UK at that time, he lost to Young, he lost to Shavers, he lost to Norton x2, And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

The fight with Shavers was close, could have gone either way lots of close rounds but that was an older Ali and he had already delivered his last great hurrah. Same with Jones and Cooper.

And fighters legacies aren't defined by fights fought before they won the title. Roland Lastarza by many accounts beat Marciano when they fought before Marciano won the title but it does nothing to Rocky's legacy nor should it.

Shavers was working for entire 3 minutes of the round where as Ali was fighting in spurts, i thought Shavers clearly won there fight by about 2 points. Well its not like Ali was that green when he fought Cooper, Jones, because shortly after these fights he did go on to beat Liston in one of his finest performances.

[DaxxKahn]

Record wise yes if we ignoring his gift decisions but IMO he is still overrated, he drew against Doug Jones IMO, he got lucky against Cooper having smelling salts which were illegal in UK at that time, he lost to Young, he lost to Shavers, he lost to Norton x2, And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

The second Norton fight was close but I still give it to Ali and the third Ali won hands down....

Your the only one I ever heard say Ali lost to Jimmy Young

[ICB]

Record wise yes if we ignoring his gift decisions but IMO he is still overrated, he drew against Doug Jones IMO, he got lucky against Cooper having smelling salts which were illegal in UK at that time, he lost to Young, he lost to Shavers, he lost to Norton x2, And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

The second Norton fight was close but I still give it to Ali and the third Ali won hands down....

Your the only one I ever heard say Ali lost to Jimmy Young

The only one who you have seen ?? most of the ring side reporters had Young winning the Ali fight and majority of the boxing fans i know thinks Young won there fight as well. Yes Ali was overweight and he looked like crap, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was indeed a gift. And you can't be serious regarding Norton vs Ali 3 ?? thats one of the most controversial fights in history, and to say Ali won that hands down is just silly Daxx IMO not trying to be rude here by the way, when it is considered by most boxing fans that there 3rd fight is much more controversial than there 2nd meeting.

[DaxxKahn]

Record wise yes if we ignoring his gift decisions but IMO he is still overrated, he drew against Doug Jones IMO, he got lucky against Cooper having smelling salts which were illegal in UK at that time, he lost to Young, he lost to Shavers, he lost to Norton x2, And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

The second Norton fight was close but I still give it to Ali and the third Ali won hands down....

Your the only one I ever heard say Ali lost to Jimmy Young

The only one who you have seen ?? most of the ring side reporters had Young winning the Ali fight and majority of the boxing fans i know thinks Young won there fight as well. Yes Ali was overweight and he looked like crap, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was indeed a gift. And you can't be serious regarding Norton vs Ali 3 ?? thats one of the most controversial fights in history, and to say Ali won that hands down is just silly Daxx IMO not trying to be rude here by the way, when it is considered by most boxing fans that there 3rd fight is much more controversial than there 2nd meeting.

I had Ali winning all 3 of those...Just my Opp

[ICB]

The second Norton fight was close but I still give it to Ali and the third Ali won hands down....

Your the only one I ever heard say Ali lost to Jimmy Young

The only one who you have seen ?? most of the ring side reporters had Young winning the Ali fight and majority of the boxing fans i know thinks Young won there fight as well. Yes Ali was overweight and he looked like crap, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was indeed a gift. And you can't be serious regarding Norton vs Ali 3 ?? thats one of the most controversial fights in history, and to say Ali won that hands down is just silly Daxx IMO not trying to be rude here by the way, when it is considered by most boxing fans that there 3rd fight is much more controversial than there 2nd meeting.

I had Ali winning all 3 of those...Just my Opp

Thats interesting Daxx did you have Leonard beating Hagler ?? just out of curiosity i just want to see how you score fights.

[DaxxKahn]

The only one who you have seen ?? most of the ring side reporters had Young winning the Ali fight and majority of the boxing fans i know thinks Young won there fight as well. Yes Ali was overweight and he looked like crap, but that still doesn't change the fact that it was indeed a gift. And you can't be serious regarding Norton vs Ali 3 ?? thats one of the most controversial fights in history, and to say Ali won that hands down is just silly Daxx IMO not trying to be rude here by the way, when it is considered by most boxing fans that there 3rd fight is much more controversial than there 2nd meeting.

I had Ali winning all 3 of those...Just my Opp

Thats interesting Daxx did you have Leonard beating Hagler ?? just out of curiosity i just want to see how you score fights.

No I had Hagler up by 2....IMO Leonard got the nod because he was Leonard (No other way to put it)...

[rene69]

And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

It was me and you're talking about a 20 yr old Ali had hadn't even entered his prime yet. But the real question is...was he beaten? No he wasn't.

[ICB]

And someone mentioned that Louis would get slaughtered by Ali because Louis was flat footed, but then i ask that person how did flat footed fighters like Jones and Cooper give Ali so much trouble ??

It was me and you're talking about a 20 yr old Ali had hadn't even entered his prime yet. But the real question is...was he beaten? No he wasn't.

He wasn't that far from his prime because he fought both Cooper and Jones in 63, and in just less than a year after his fight with Cooper he beat Liston in one of his finest performances.

[:::PSL:::]

ATG?.. No.

I have him behind SRR.

[ICB]

ATG?.. No.

I have him behind SRR.

I have him behind, SRR, Armstrong, Pep, and you could make a case for others but guys like Greb etc, i don't really know enough about to make a real strong argument, but some people even say Sam Langford is the greatest P4P fighter of all time.