I got a question.....

[CutMeMick]

Well as someone who has good stamina you could potentially use that to your advantage and have one long cardio session a week - working up to 2 or 2.5 hours. You'd want to perhaps alternate between the bike and the treadmill in say 20 min lots. That could help burn some fat and teach your body to metabilise fat a little more efficiently.

There's no point in thinking about that if you don't want to spend that much time in one session and get bored easily though. You'd also need to keep up your weights to prevent you just getting smaller rather than leaner which can happen.

Sounds like you enjoy resistancw work which you could keep up but just work out a structure which would suit you time wise. General principles which you already know would be not to work the same muscle group 2 days in a row so you could either do your whole body in a weights session and skip a day or two or break your body up into muscle groups to do a shorter session more often.

Cardio wise I think it'd be good to get into the habit of doing some say at least 3 probably 4 times a week but that could include your soccer game and unless you decide you enjoy it enough to go down the endurance path wouldn't need to take more than 30 mins.

If you want to do sprints - say to improve your explosive ability for soccer you'd want say at least a 15 minute easy warm up before doing intense intervals. Depending on the max speed of your treadmill you might be able to do some short sprints on that and I guess your exercise bike too if the resistance isn't set too high.

I wouldn't recommend mroe than 2 sprint sessions a week and since you probably sprint a lot playing soccer one is maybe more realistic - just make it a good one.

You'd already know Scrap's threads are good for stretches.

You can work the bags in a similar way. You might have short, hard rounds on your bag to really get your heart rate up with timed rests.

You will find that with pushups and boxing etc you use and strenthen your chest muscles a lot. To counterbalance that you will need to put some emphasis on your back when you do weights. It will also help to keep you from developing a hunched posture which will make your stomach look fattier than it really is.

Chin ups are great for your back plus some light dumbell exercises - on hands and knees, dumbell in one hand and raise laterally and return in a controlled fashion to feel the muscles right in the middle of your back. Light weight is best otherwise you use the wrong muscles which won't really help your posture.

You might want to check out the bodyweight exercises thread that Hitmanddony put up - there are heaps of good exercises in there.

I'd also do a search on plyometrics because they'd be great for your soccer to I imagine. You just need to make sure you have a safe surface for plyometrics and skipping. Doing those exercises on normal floors WILL damage you. You'll get shin splints and potentially back problems - i knew a guy who had to stop boxing for a while because he fractured his back this way! It sucked for him because he'd just won a national junior title and was doing really well!

If you don't have sprung floorboards you might be able to pick up some rubber matting made for this purpose somewhere.

Thanks a lot for your input I really appreciate it. I will def. keep all of this in mind.

Hello ALL.

My name is Robert aka. CutMeMick. I frequent the Boxing Talk, Let's Get It On among other boards the most. I've come here several times to read, I read a lot. I'm a learner I'm here to read and not post on this forum as you guys are the experts here. Except for alex_w...

Abyway....

Well today I odered this puppy:

Heavy Duty Triple Threat Gym


So my question is....
What do I do with it?

Being that I'm sure you guys know your way better through this Forum then me. I was hoping you'd guys could direct me to some threads on here that I could use for when my gym arrives.

I've also got a treadmill, excersice bike, jump rope and some weights.

I pretty much know the different types of excersices I can do with the equipment I've got. But I don't know where to start.

What I want to do is set up a routine that I can do. I should mention this ONLY for me to stay fit I am NOT doing this because I want to box. I know swimming is one of the best ways to stay fit but unfortunately I couldn't afford building a swimming pool in my house so I had to settle for the gym.

So I hope someone can help me out here in designing a routine that best suits me.

Thanks in advanced,
Mick

I don't live in a big place so i have to go to the gym a lot but i do tend to keep it simple. I have a chin up bar on my bedroom door, i have set of dumbbells, some big weights in the shed. Cross trainer and a fitness ball for my abs. Its shame you can't go swimming Mick i used to go all the time but i have had to cut down because im busy now.

If your just looking to get lean and fit and not worried about muscles or etc. Then just do Cardio between 30 mins-45mins at least 5 days a week. And watch what your eating as well you can't expect to do 45 mins of Cardio then just eat whatever want. Now i can't tell you what to eat but im just saying be careful of what you eat and try and cut out fatty foods. And im not sure if your morning person or not but try and exercise in the morning if you can because when you wake up your body is low on Glycogen which forces you to burn fat at a higher ratio.


Monday

Morning = Cardio skipping or going on the treadmill whichever you prefer.

Afternoon = Ab work out Bicycle crunches etc. this site will give you the best ab work outs. Top 10 Most Effective Ab Exercises

Evening = Light dumbbells and more reps, is the best to get your arms lean.

Now i just done that to give you an example how to set up your routine, You said you do football on Sunday so maybe work out 4 days a week instead of 5 because football is a pretty good Cardio work out in itself. Cardio doesn't have to be boring, i sometimes go out with my mates and play basketball and etc. Any fun sport that gets you moving is a good Cardio work out. Also i go to boxing as you know and i find sparring to be a fun Cardio work out as well. Have you ever considered going to boxing gym just to get fit and lean ?? you don't have to do any fighting if you don't want you can just do it as a hobby to keep fit etc.

By the way if your looking to get a six pack or etc, i can really help you there so let me know.

Thanks for your input and I def. want a six pack.

I've always eaten well and I watch what I eat my problem is I'm not excersizing to burn the calories I'm taking in. I would def. be interested in the six pack routine.

[ICB]

Sounds like you enjoy resistancw work which you could keep up but just work out a structure which would suit you time wise. General principles which you already know would be not to work the same muscle group 2 days in a row so you could either do your whole body in a weights session and skip a day or two or break your body up into muscle groups to do a shorter session more often.

Cardio wise I think it' be good to get into the habit of doing some say at least 3 probably 4 times a week but that could include your soccer game and unless you decide you enjoy it enough to go down the endurance path wouldn't need to take more than 30 mins.

If you want to do sprints - say to improve your explosive ability for soccer you'd want say at least a 15 minute easy warm up before doing intense intervals. Depending on the max speed of your treadmill you might be able to do some short sprints on that and I guess your exercise bike too if the resistance isn't set too high.

I wouldn't recommend mroe than 2 sprint sessions a week and since you probably sprint a lot playing soccer one is maybe more realistic - just make it a good one.

You'd already know Scrap's threads are good for stretches.

You can work the bags in a similar way. You might have short, hard rounds on your bag to really get your heart rate up with timed rests.

You will find that with pushups and boxing etc you use and strenthen your chest muscles a lot. To counterbalance that you will need to put some emphasis on your back when you do weights. It will also help to keep you from developing a hunched posture which will make your stomach look fattier than it really is.

Chin ups are great for your back plus some light dumbell exercises - on hands and knees, dumbell in one hand and raise laterally and return in a controlled fashion to feel the muscles right in the middle of your back. Light weight is best otherwise you use the wrong muscles which won't really help your posture.

You might want to check out the bodyweight exercises thread that Hitmanddony put up - there are heaps of good exercises in there.

I'd also do a search on plyometrics because they'd be great for your soccer to I imagine. You just need to make sure you have a safe surface for plyometrics and skipping. Doing those exercises on normal floors WILL damage you. You'll get shin splints and potentially back problems - i knew a guy who had to stop boxing for a while because he fractured his back this way! It sucked for him because he'd just won a national junior title and was doing really well!

If you don't have sprung floorboards you might be able to pick up some rubber matting made for this purpose somewhere.

Thanks a lot for your input I really appreciate it. I will def. keep all of this in mind.

Hello ALL.

My name is Robert aka. CutMeMick. I frequent the Boxing Talk, Let's Get It On among other boards the most. I've come here several times to read, I read a lot. I'm a learner I'm here to read and not post on this forum as you guys are the experts here. Except for alex_w...



Well today I odered this puppy:

Heavy Duty Triple Threat Gym


So my question is....
What do I do with it?

Being that I'm sure you guys know your way better through this Forum then me. I was hoping you'd guys could direct me to some threads on here that I could use for when my gym arrives.

I've also got a treadmill, excersice bike, jump rope and some weights.

I pretty much know the different types of excersices I can do with the equipment I've got. But I don't know where to start.

What I want to do is set up a routine that I can do. I should mention this ONLY for me to stay fit I am NOT doing this because I want to box. I know swimming is one of the best ways to stay fit but unfortunately I couldn't afford building a swimming pool in my house so I had to settle for the gym.

So I hope someone can help me out here in designing a routine that best suits me.

Thanks in advanced,
Mick

I don't live in a big place so i have to go to the gym a lot but i do tend to keep it simple. I have a chin up bar on my bedroom door, i have set of dumbbells, some big weights in the shed. Cross trainer and a fitness ball for my abs. Its shame you can't go swimming Mick i used to go all the time but i have had to cut down because im busy now.

If your just looking to get lean and fit and not worried about muscles or etc. Then just do Cardio between 30 mins-45mins at least 5 days a week. And watch what your eating as well you can't expect to do 45 mins of Cardio then just eat whatever want. Now i can't tell you what to eat but im just saying be careful of what you eat and try and cut out fatty foods. And im not sure if your morning person or not but try and exercise in the morning if you can because when you wake up your body is low on Glycogen which forces you to burn fat at a higher ratio.


Monday

Morning = Cardio skipping or going on the treadmill whichever you prefer.

Afternoon = Ab work out Bicycle crunches etc. this site will give you the best ab work outs. Top 10 Most Effective Ab Exercises

Evening = Light dumbbells and more reps, is the best to get your arms lean.

Now i just done that to give you an example how to set up your routine, You said you do football on Sunday so maybe work out 4 days a week instead of 5 because football is a pretty good Cardio work out in itself. Cardio doesn't have to be boring, i sometimes go out with my mates and play basketball and etc. Any fun sport that gets you moving is a good Cardio work out. Also i go to boxing as you know and i find sparring to be a fun Cardio work out as well. Have you ever considered going to boxing gym just to get fit and lean ?? you don't have to do any fighting if you don't want you can just do it as a hobby to keep fit etc.

By the way if your looking to get a six pack or etc, i can really help you there so let me know.

Thanks for your input and I def. want a six pack.

I've always eaten well and I watch what I eat my problem is I'm not excersizing to burn the calories I'm taking in. I would def. be interested in the six pack routine.

Well basically to get a six pack your body fat has to be round about 10 percent or lower depending on your body. That means doing a lot of Cardio to burn the fat as you know, but i can give you some really helpful AB exercises that worked for me.

The first one is called the "Bicycle Crunch" it is considered 250 percent more effective than a normal crunch, To do it lay on a mat and put your hands behind your head or behind your ears whichever is more comfortable for you. Then lift both legs off the ground only a few inches, then bend both legs and now what you want to do Mick, is get a bicycle sort of motion going, just practice at first getting your legs moving like your riding a bike, then what you want to do is twist your body and your elbow needs to touch the opposite leg, now im assuming your new to this so start of with only short amount like 10 of these in 3 sets, because this is very hard exercise so you don't want to over do it. If my explanation wasn't clear enough heres a picture of how its done.

http://www.health24.com/images/site/...e_crunch_1.gifThat will basically work your whole top Abs including the side of your abs, a little warning Mick perform these slow and also don't pull to hard on your neck.

Lower Abs

A pretty simple one here Mick lay flat on the floor then raise your legs about 12 inches off the floor with your legs straight out, then lower them until your feet/legs are almost touching the floor then repeat and raise them again 12 inches off the floor. I suggest 10 of these with 3 sets.

Remember Mick you need to work all 3 parts of your abs, The sides, Middle, and lower part.

Now Mick i really would suggest you get a chin up bar and Stability ball, these are both cheap and much more effective than the machines you spend hundreds of dollars on. Now the reason why Stability ball is best for your abs is because the amount of free motion it gives you, and all the different positions you can do which you wouldn't be able to do laying on the floor.

As for the chin up bar not only can you do killer lower ab work outs like hanging leg raises which is one of the best lower ab work outs, its also extremely good for your biceps amongst other stuff etc. I tell you what only after about 2 weeks of doing chin ups i noticed a difference. Now im not sure how strong you are but a beginner to a chin up bar will probably struggle so just try and do few chin ups without fully extending your arms. After few days of getting used to it start fully extending your arms and you will reap the benefits, not only is this good for getting rid of fat, its also extremely good your biceps and you will be ripped in no time if you keep at it.

Now i want you to start off with these 3 ab work outs just to get started.

Bicycle crunches 3 sets of 10.

Normal crunches with your arms across your chest knees bent 3 sets of 15.

Leg Raises = Lower ab work out 3 sets of 10.

Now i recommend you train your abs as much as you can, remember your abs don't need days to recover like your arms. But start off with 3 days a week. Change the order you do these work outs, and after about 1 week of getting used to it, up the amount you do. And when you can do all 3 of these exercises 5 sets of 20 then i will give you more complicated and more varied ab work outs, but i like i said if you really are committed to getting sick pack then a stability is what you need.

I had to cut out some of your quote by the way Mick because this whole text went over 10000 characters.

[ono]

If you're doing cardio on an empty stomach i would advise doing low intensity for somewhere in the region of 30 mins. Anything other than low intensity will lead to muscle loss (a lot). By low intensity i mean walking (quite a fast pace).

Light dumbells and more reps is certainly not the way to get your arms 'lean.' Being lean is a result of low body fat. The above statement is a complete myth. You cannot spot reduce on a certain body part by constantly working it. Nor will you grow muscle or give your arms a leaner definition. Nothing will ever happen, other than you'l get good at it....which is erm... great . It's very pointless and it's a myth i actually believed when i first started training.

Also a chin up bar will not help you get rid of body fat. It's impossible unless you did 1,000,000 chin ups a day...which i doubt you have time for. It basically primarily works the lats (lower and upper) and secondarily it works the biceps.

Plz dont simply train your abs as much as you can. They are exactly the same as every muscle group in the body. They need time to recover.

Listen a 6pac is basically the result of very low bodyfat. No matter how many fancy ab crunches you do, nobody will ever be able to see your abs until your bodyfat is around 10% (to see upper abs) and around 8% to see lower.

[ICB]

If you're doing cardio on an empty stomach i would advise doing low intensity for somewhere in the region of 30 mins. Anything other than low intensity will lead to muscle loss (a lot). By low intensity i mean walking (quite a fast pace).

Light dumbells and more reps is certainly not the way to get your arms 'lean.' Being lean is a result of low body fat. The above statement is a complete myth. You cannot spot reduce on a certain body part by constantly working it. Nor will you grow muscle or give your arms a leaner definition. Nothing will ever happen, other than you'l get good at it....which is erm... great . It's very pointless and it's a myth i actually believed when i first started training.

Also a chin up bar will not help you get rid of body fat. It's impossible unless you did 1,000,000 chin ups a day...which i doubt you have time for. It basically primarily works the lats (lower and upper) and secondarily it works the biceps.

Plz dont simply train your abs as much as you can. They are exactly the same as every muscle group in the body. They need time to recover.

Listen a 6pac is basically the result of very low bodyfat. No matter how many fancy ab crunches you do, nobody will ever be able to see your abs until your bodyfat is around 10% (to see upper abs) and around 8% to see lower.

I never said Light Dumbbells will magically get him leaner arms, all i said was that will help him to get leaner arms by doing less weight with more reps. Mixed in with his Cardio i learnt along time ago about the spot reducing in one spot doesn't get rid of fat. You have to do Cardio to get rid of fat all over your body but he already knows he has to do Cardio i was just giving him a few tips.

Chin ups do indeed help get rid of overall body fat because its compound movement you aren't working on one specific body part like you would be if you done dumbbells or etc. And why shouldn't he train his abs as much as he can ?? i didn't mean 7 days a week but 4 or 5 days a week is fine. Your Abs don't need as much time to recover as say your arms or etc, so you can work your abs easily about 4 or 5 times a week.

[ono]

If you're doing cardio on an empty stomach i would advise doing low intensity for somewhere in the region of 30 mins. Anything other than low intensity will lead to muscle loss (a lot). By low intensity i mean walking (quite a fast pace).

Light dumbells and more reps is certainly not the way to get your arms 'lean.' Being lean is a result of low body fat. The above statement is a complete myth. You cannot spot reduce on a certain body part by constantly working it. Nor will you grow muscle or give your arms a leaner definition. Nothing will ever happen, other than you'l get good at it....which is erm... great . It's very pointless and it's a myth i actually believed when i first started training.

Also a chin up bar will not help you get rid of body fat. It's impossible unless you did 1,000,000 chin ups a day...which i doubt you have time for. It basically primarily works the lats (lower and upper) and secondarily it works the biceps.

Plz dont simply train your abs as much as you can. They are exactly the same as every muscle group in the body. They need time to recover.

Listen a 6pac is basically the result of very low bodyfat. No matter how many fancy ab crunches you do, nobody will ever be able to see your abs until your bodyfat is around 10% (to see upper abs) and around 8% to see lower.

I never said Light Dumbbells will magically get him leaner arms, all i said was that will help him to get leaner arms by doing less weight with more reps. Mixed in with his Cardio i learnt along time ago about the spot reducing in one spot doesn't get rid of fat. You have to do Cardio to get rid of fat all over your body but he already knows he has to do Cardio i was just giving him a few tips.

Chin ups do indeed help get rid of overall body fat because its compound movement you aren't working on one specific body part like you would be if you done dumbbells or etc. And why shouldn't he train his abs as much as he can ?? i didn't mean 7 days a week but 4 or 5 days a week is fine. Your Abs don't need as much time to recover as say your arms or etc, so you can work your abs easily about 4 or 5 times a week.

The cardio will make him look leaner. High rep/low weight has nothing to do with it.

Compund movements build muscle mass as they require you to recruit the most muscle fibers. They are not really effective for fat loss as your body doesn't expend anywhere near the amount of calories it would do from a hard cardio session. Even if you trained HIT (which would be very difficult using solely compound movements) it would still be very tough to lose body fat using compund movements.

As for your abs, they need as much time to recover as the rest of your body does. They actually need longer than your biceps do, to recover from a heavy session.

[Sharla]

If you're doing cardio on an empty stomach i would advise doing low intensity for somewhere in the region of 30 mins. Anything other than low intensity will lead to muscle loss (a lot). By low intensity i mean walking (quite a fast pace).

I'm not sure I agree with this. High intesity exercise like sprints will increase muscle mass in your legs. What is low intensity will depend on how fit you are so it doesn't have to mean walking.

I also would say that while I don't usually have a problem eating small amounts before an intense workout most people will have issues if they eat within an hour immediately before a hard workout. I wouldn't say that exercising hard on an empty stomach is bad as long as you don't feel drained. I would often leave breakfast until after my harder morning workouts if I do it early enough - say 5 or 6 am.

[Youngblood]

If you're doing cardio on an empty stomach i would advise doing low intensity for somewhere in the region of 30 mins. Anything other than low intensity will lead to muscle loss (a lot). By low intensity i mean walking (quite a fast pace).

I'm not sure I agree with this. High intesity exercise like sprints will increase muscle mass in your legs. What is low intensity will depend on how fit you are so it doesn't have to mean walking.

I also would say that while I don't usually have a problem eating small amounts before an intense workout most people will have issues if they eat within an hour immediately before a hard workout. I wouldn't say that exercising hard on an empty stomach is bad as long as you don't feel drained. I would often leave breakfast until after my harder morning workouts if I do it early enough - say 5 or 6 am.

I run soon as I get up. New routine is wake, eat a banana, wash face, few rounds of skipping, then off to do tabatas. Few rounds of skipping after. Then whey protein and L-glutamine shake right after and then some breakfast within 1/2 hr.

Shower and I feel great and ready for the day. No aches or pains, and lots of energy.

[ono]

If you're doing cardio on an empty stomach i would advise doing low intensity for somewhere in the region of 30 mins. Anything other than low intensity will lead to muscle loss (a lot). By low intensity i mean walking (quite a fast pace).

I'm not sure I agree with this. High intesity exercise like sprints will increase muscle mass in your legs. What is low intensity will depend on how fit you are so it doesn't have to mean walking.

I also would say that while I don't usually have a problem eating small amounts before an intense workout most people will have issues if they eat within an hour immediately before a hard workout. I wouldn't say that exercising hard on an empty stomach is bad as long as you don't feel drained. I would often leave breakfast until after my harder morning workouts if I do it early enough - say 5 or 6 am.

Hig intensity training on an empty stomach will result in a loss of muscle mass.

Exercising like this on a empty stomach is the last thing you want to do if you want to build muscle.

Suppose it all depends on what your goals are.

[Sharla]

If you're doing cardio on an empty stomach i would advise doing low intensity for somewhere in the region of 30 mins. Anything other than low intensity will lead to muscle loss (a lot). By low intensity i mean walking (quite a fast pace).

I'm not sure I agree with this. High intesity exercise like sprints will increase muscle mass in your legs. What is low intensity will depend on how fit you are so it doesn't have to mean walking.

I also would say that while I don't usually have a problem eating small amounts before an intense workout most people will have issues if they eat within an hour immediately before a hard workout. I wouldn't say that exercising hard on an empty stomach is bad as long as you don't feel drained. I would often leave breakfast until after my harder morning workouts if I do it early enough - say 5 or 6 am.

Hig intensity training on an empty stomach will result in a loss of muscle mass.

Exercising like this on a empty stomach is the last thing you want to do if you want to build muscle.

Suppose it all depends on what your goals are.

Nope! This is so wrong get your facts straight! Something sitting in your stomach is not yet available to your muscles. It takes energy to digest food. You need to digest it before you can use it. If you train too intensely too quickly after eating you'll just want to throw up because your body will find ti too hard to train intensely and use energy to digest your food at the same time.

You can train while ingesting very high GI, small amounts like energy gels which are pretty much pure glucose but thse things are usually reserved for endurance events like marathons, long triathlons etc where you're likely to compete for durations longer than 2 hours and use all of your glycogen reserves.

Glucose will help fuel long (relatively low intensity) endurance events but what you need to stop loosing muscle mass is protein and carbohydrates AFTER training. when your muscles need to repair - often i think they recommend something 20 mins after a session.

[Dizaster]

There is just a tonne of good stuff in this thread...

I just moved out recently and have been out of the habit of exercising for quite a while..

I've got 2 sets of dumbells and a small exercise bench so I can vary my exercises... I had a big chin-up/dip station at my old house but havn't moved it to the new house yet as I don't have any room for it..
The crown jewel of my equipment is a super expensive exercise bike like the ones they have in gyms.. Fully programmable with slopes etc... It can even save your workout and you can race against yourself next time... I enjoy using that while watching a movie or television.. I think it helps HUGELY to find a way of enjoying your exercise... As much as possible anyway, while your still pushing yourself...
I also had a punching bag, speed bag & double ended bag in my old garage, but again I don't really have anywhere to put these in the new house which is really sad..


I'm looking at getting one of those stands that Mick bought... I know it doesn't allow much freedom of movement around the bag, but i'm not going to be competing so i'm willing to accept that downfall of not having the free movement.. I can still work myself hard, as boxing is the one exercise/fitness thing that I genuinally look forward to....


Anyway Mick, anytime i'm looking at getting back into my exercise, I visit my 2 favourite websites on the subject... I've posted these about 15 times on Saddo's over the years, but it's because they are so inspirational and have good info.... The same guy runs them both, and he actually sells the program, but the website alone has enough great info to get you started and actually enough info to really get you good results....
Sometime when I have the money though I think i'll grab one of his programs... But check the websites out anyway and bookmark them to come back too.



How to gain muscle weight and build muscle mass fast!

! Fat loss - Weight loss diet tips, programs and pills.


Good Luck!

[ono]

I'm not sure I agree with this. High intesity exercise like sprints will increase muscle mass in your legs. What is low intensity will depend on how fit you are so it doesn't have to mean walking.

I also would say that while I don't usually have a problem eating small amounts before an intense workout most people will have issues if they eat within an hour immediately before a hard workout. I wouldn't say that exercising hard on an empty stomach is bad as long as you don't feel drained. I would often leave breakfast until after my harder morning workouts if I do it early enough - say 5 or 6 am.

Hig intensity training on an empty stomach will result in a loss of muscle mass.

Exercising like this on a empty stomach is the last thing you want to do if you want to build muscle.

Suppose it all depends on what your goals are.

Nope! This is so wrong get your facts straight! Something sitting in your stomach is not yet available to your muscles. It takes energy to digest food. You need to digest it before you can use it. If you train too intensely too quickly after eating you'll just want to throw up because your body will find ti too hard to train intensely and use energy to digest your food at the same time.

You can train while ingesting very high GI, small amounts like energy gels which are pretty much pure glucose but thse things are usually reserved for endurance events like marathons, long triathlons etc where you're likely to compete for durations longer than 2 hours and use all of your glycogen reserves.

Glucose will help fuel long (relatively low intensity) endurance events but what you need to stop loosing muscle mass is protein and carbohydrates AFTER training. when your muscles need to repair - often i think they recommend something 20 mins after a session.

I have got my facts straight. Your missing my point completely. If you are using energy gels then you are not training on an empty stomach! You are using glucose.

I was simply saying, that training like that on an EMPTY STOMACH will lead to muscle loss.