What the fuck is up with Obama's church?!?

[Kirkland Laing]

Are you sure its not that he hates America and secretly wants to become President in order to help bring America down from the inside?

Do you mean McCain or Obama? Or Bush ?

[OumaFan]

I think Bush did his part in bringing down the country through sheer stupidity. Who knows?

[El Kabong]

I think Bush did his part in bringing down the country through sheer stupidity. Who knows?

Obama has just as much experience as W did when he first became President.


Kirkland maybe you could suggest a better Republican candidate than McCain?

And what Democrat do you like? Obama, Clinton, or someone else?

[OumaFan]

Yeah but Bush is an idiot

I'm in graduate school for history, mainly U.S. foreign policy, and I've been reading this book called The Hidden Hand Presidency about Eisenhower and how during his presidency people thought he was kind of out of it and just let his cabinet run everything and played golf all the time when it turned out that (whether you agreed with his policies or not) he was lucid and in control. I sometimes wonder if there will end up being a revisionist history like that about Bush, and we'll find out that he actually wasn't as stupid as he seems. I kind of doubt it.

[El Kabong]

Obama has no experience in foreign policy...McCain DOES!

[OumaFan]

Yes and he had the good judgment to support an obviously unnecessary war which obviously was going to do more to hurt the nation's interest than help it. Unlike the Democrats who supported the war because they were political cowards, McCain actually thought it was a good idea.

Which makes his self-congratulatory air about the surge seem a bit over the top.

[El Kabong]

McCain was calling for Rumsfeld's head loooong before Bush or anyone else was!


Just because Bush and the Neo-Cons screwed things up so bad doesn't mean McCain would have done the same thing. And just because Obama didn't vote for the war doesn't mean he did anything to try and stop it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJZeSEIjtEg

...The Democrats run Congress, they could have cut funding and ended the war HOWEVER they didn't...and WHY? To stick W with the "loss"...that's the REAL REASON they didn't vote to cut off funds.

[CFH]

Yeah but Bush is an idiot

I'm in graduate school for history, mainly U.S. foreign policy, and I've been reading this book called The Hidden Hand Presidency about Eisenhower and how during his presidency people thought he was kind of out of it and just let his cabinet run everything and played golf all the time when it turned out that (whether you agreed with his policies or not) he was lucid and in control. I sometimes wonder if there will end up being a revisionist history like that about Bush, and we'll find out that he actually wasn't as stupid as he seems. I kind of doubt it.

The more I learn about Eisenhower as a President, the more I like him. He was bang on about the developing military-industrial complex.

[El Kabong]

....look at the Middle East and thank Ike for buying into the idea that putting the Shah of Iran in power was a good idea.

[amat]

I usually refrain from it, but it's a Youtube video I have to post just because Lyle has pulled a bunch from his catalog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

[CFH]

....look at the Middle East and thank Ike for buying into the idea that putting the Shah of Iran in power was a good idea.

This from someone who supports the Republican ethos .
Pretty much every American President from the Civil War onwards has meddled in the affairs of other sovereign nations. Not that it makes it right. So I assume by your comments about the Shah that you would rather Iran have been run by a ultra-nationalist, anti-imperialist (ie anti-American)?

[Kirkland Laing]

I think Bush did his part in bringing down the country through sheer stupidity. Who knows?

Obama has just as much experience as W did when he first became President.


Kirkland maybe you could suggest a better Republican candidate than McCain?

And what Democrat do you like? Obama, Clinton, or someone else?

Chuck Hagel would be a good GOP nominee. Either Obama or Clinton would be fine, although I'd prefer Clinton so she can run on a platform of bringing honour and integrity back to the White House.

McCain is a foreign policy cretin, QED.

[OumaFan]

Obama's only six delegates away. Hillary's apparently starting to talk about accepting the V.P.