Sometimes I'm ashamed to be Canadian...

[El Kabong]

Plenty of "Americans" (using the mocking finger quotes) like Susan Surandon and Rosie O'Donnell care about what everyone else thinks...but I am of the opinion if Americans don't respect/love/admire America then no one else is going to do it for them....so we have to work on us and everyone else is just going to have to take a fucking backseat whilst we get our shit together.


The war is beside the point here...it's not JUST the war America has problems with....this partisan crap hasn't gotten any better since W took office and it wouldn't have been any better if Gore or Kerry had won either....Congress' rating is worse than W's and no body (bar myself) is bitching about how fucked up the Democrats are....Pelosi, Reid, Obama, Clinton and all the other winged monkeys out there have done fuck all for America and they have had ample opportunities but THEY chose to grandstand.....people can accuse the GOP of grandstanding as well but hey look in the mirror they had a chance to stop funding on the war thereby securing it's end and they balked.......because like any politician these days, they don't have the stones to do anything about anything

[El Kabong]

As for the "if all nations thought alike would there even be a war" it means ....if "The World" thought one way about everything then there wouldn't have been a war or any war...but see the nations of the world are different and that being the case why should America try to be the most favorite nation I thought all yall hated that side of America....you know, the "World Police"/"Nation Building"/"Defender of Nerd Nations getting bullied by the jock countries"


All the nations of the world know is that they want America to either help them achieve their goals OR leave them alone so they can help themselves.

[CFH]

As for the "if all nations thought alike would there even be a war" it means ....if "The World" thought one way about everything then there wouldn't have been a war or any war...but see the nations of the world are different and that being the case why should America try to be the most favorite nation I thought all yall hated that side of America....you know, the "World Police"/"Nation Building"/"Defender of Nerd Nations getting bullied by the jock countries"


All the nations of the world know is that they want America to either help them achieve their goals OR leave them alone so they can help themselves.

You're right. If Saddam Hussein has thought, "Gee, I guess I'll just step down from power, admit to possessing weapons I do not have, and hand over all my country's oil reserves to my enemy ...", war probably could've been averted.

It's not America people hate, it's imperialism in any of its forms, be economic, military, etc. People hated the French, British, German, and the rest of the imperial European countries when they did the same thing. How did you guys like it when the British were in charge of your country? You did exactly what the Iraqi's are doing.

America, by its very existence and power, all ready affects all of the other countries in the world, most often in a negative manner, so it's not as if the U.S. can just leave other countries alone as you say. That type of influence, hypothetically, comes along with a responsibility to ensure that it is wielded in the correct manner as opposed to a childish "I'm the strongest, so only I matter" mentality. It's immoral, but more important for you guys, it's unsustainable.

[CFH]

Plenty of "Americans" (using the mocking finger quotes) like Susan Surandon and Rosie O'Donnell care about what everyone else thinks...but I am of the opinion if Americans don't respect/love/admire America then no one else is going to do it for them....so we have to work on us and everyone else is just going to have to take a fucking backseat whilst we get our shit together.


The war is beside the point here...it's not JUST the war America has problems with....this partisan crap hasn't gotten any better since W took office and it wouldn't have been any better if Gore or Kerry had won either....Congress' rating is worse than W's and no body (bar myself) is bitching about how fucked up the Democrats are....Pelosi, Reid, Obama, Clinton and all the other winged monkeys out there have done fuck all for America and they have had ample opportunities but THEY chose to grandstand.....people can accuse the GOP of grandstanding as well but hey look in the mirror they had a chance to stop funding on the war thereby securing it's end and they balked.......because like any politician these days, they don't have the stones to do anything about anything

So because people have a different perspective from yours they are somehow less American than you? You can be patriotic while objecting to the actions of your government, you do understand that? As for the rest of your post, I have no idea what that has to do with anything else that we have been discussing. However, I do want to address something you said, if the Dems (or Reps) had blocked funding at any point during the war it would have been political suicide. They would've immediately been labeled as being against the troops because of the god awful, supporting the war=supporting the troops link that has been established because of the shame American's feel towards the way they treated returning Vietnam veterans.

[El Kabong]

So because people have a different perspective from yours they are somehow less American than you? You can be patriotic while objecting to the actions of your government, you do understand that? As for the rest of your post, I have no idea what that has to do with anything else that we have been discussing. However, I do want to address something you said, if the Dems (or Reps) had blocked funding at any point during the war it would have been political suicide. They would've immediately been labeled as being against the troops because of the god awful, supporting the war=supporting the troops link that has been established because of the shame American's feel towards the way they treated returning Vietnam veterans.

Nope, it's a free world but riddle me this....when was the last time people such as Susan Surandon said "I am proud of America" or "America is a great nation"....and then why was it they were "proud"

I'm not saying they are un-American...I don't want to say that...if I wanted to say that I would say it....I'm saying they have more of a "Global" mindset and therefore don't have America's best intrests in mind.....ever

CFH get off it....we're there nothing I or you can say or do is going to remedy that anytime soon.

[Youngblood]

I think it is fair to say that most americans do not share Lyle's views and mentality. I know for sure the majority of them I have met don't. We have our share of agenda driven lying politicians here, just like the rest of the world. Thing is though, we aren't afraid to call them out on their bullshit. I thought that was our job seeing we put them there.

Most of the ones I have met are fairly decent people, and don't tend to clump everyone and everything into little agenda oriented boxes of 'right' and 'wrong', 'my way or the highway'.

I doubt many of them would say,."Stupid useless Canadians"...much like I wouldn't say, "Stupid useless Americans". And we generally can agree that there is more to good people, then their countries current political agenda and mission.

Try telling that to a sheep though. It will just sit there and chomp it's food and make goofy noises.

[El Kabong]

Well everyone has their own opinion but I as an American have a view of my country that's different than you people from other countries...even a view different than some Americans. However, this doesn't make me wrong or you right...it just means we have different views of the way things are and the way they ought to be.....no reason to make assumptions that I am not a decent person because of my politics...I get along fine with plenty of people who are going to vote for Obama...I got along with everyone in France....I get along with people from other countries fine...I guess it comes across in a different way online, oh well.


Have your views....just allow me to have mine as well OR be up for debating.


I don't hate Canada......just Canadians....haha, only kidding

[boozeboxer]

Well everyone has their own opinion but I as an American have a view of my country that's different than you people from other countries...even a view different than some Americans. However, this doesn't make me wrong or you right...it just means we have different views of the way things are and the way they ought to be.....no reason to make assumptions that I am not a decent person because of my politics...I get along fine with plenty of people who are going to vote for Obama...I got along with everyone in France....I get along with people from other countries fine...I guess it comes across in a different way online, oh well.


Have your views....just allow me to have mine as well OR be up for debating.


I don't hate Canada......just Canadians....haha, only kidding

I agree, except for the people and the weather, Canada is a great place.

[CFH]

Well everyone has their own opinion but I as an American have a view of my country that's different than you people from other countries...even a view different than some Americans. However, this doesn't make me wrong or you right...it just means we have different views of the way things are and the way they ought to be.....no reason to make assumptions that I am not a decent person because of my politics...I get along fine with plenty of people who are going to vote for Obama...I got along with everyone in France....I get along with people from other countries fine...I guess it comes across in a different way online, oh well.


Have your views....just allow me to have mine as well OR be up for debating.


I don't hate Canada......just Canadians....haha, only kidding

I agree, except for the people and the weather, Canada is a great place.

lol
The weather where I live is outstanding. We probably have better weather than 80% of the States, though it does rain a fair bit. Of course, we're all going to die in a catastrophic earthquake, but that doesn't count as weather.

[CFH]

Well everyone has their own opinion but I as an American have a view of my country that's different than you people from other countries...even a view different than some Americans. However, this doesn't make me wrong or you right...it just means we have different views of the way things are and the way they ought to be.....no reason to make assumptions that I am not a decent person because of my politics...I get along fine with plenty of people who are going to vote for Obama...I got along with everyone in France....I get along with people from other countries fine...I guess it comes across in a different way online, oh well.


Have your views....just allow me to have mine as well OR be up for debating.


I don't hate Canada......just Canadians....haha, only kidding

It's a lot easier to take a more polarized or antagonistic position online, because there are no real consequences.

I'm always up for a good debate, but you're the one who said to drop it - so I will after this.

In regards to your comment about being a decent people regardless of your politics, this is true. I'm sure ever George Bush, on a personal level, is probably a decent person. It's not like he's Hitler or Pol Pot. However, the actions of apparently decent people can still have grave consequences. A bad person is just as capable of making a good decision as a good person is capable of making a bad one. The consequences of those decisions is what is most important, not the impetus behind them (which is also important). I have a problem with many of the actions of the U.S. government since the Civil War, but I have no problem with individual Americans, it's not their fault that the elites control their society in the same way they have controlled nearly (perhaps all) society from the dawn of goverance.

I have no problem with you on a personal level, though for the life of me I can't understand your views or why you support the people you do. But that's cool, I'm sure you probably can't understand my views.

[El Kabong]

I don't SUPPORT what Bush has done or Cheaney or Rove...but at some point I just get fucking tired of it. Everyone gangs up on the people who don't like the liberals like they agree with 100% of what George W. Bush has done.....to tell you the truth I doubt I could find 1 politician I agree 100% with....and there's no shortage of politicians.

I don't agree with everything that America has ever done but what can we do to fix the past? NOTHING, until someone invents a time machine and even then we'll probably misuse that. We can fix the future and the present but I'm sorry we're not going to agree on how to go about fixing it and we may even have trouble agreeing on what needs to be fixed to begin with.

I'm sorry if I come off a bit pretentious when I say "Who gives a fuck what other countries think" but honestly no one is going to respect and love America if American citizens don't do it...and yeah Bush has a lot to do with that but hell the Democratic Congress hasn't done us any favors either....they were elected to change things and things are still the same, the war is still going on when they wanted to end it and had an opportunity to do so but didn't act.

All I can say about the war is, if it's going to be done it might as well be done correctly from here on out....if we leave too soon maybe it leads to an immediate trouble with Iran or 2-3 years down the road we have to go back or whatever.....but if the ball does start rolling over there then maybe just maybe we can actually learn something from being there and end up making friends over a long looooong period of time...neither of those are really going to happen more than likely something inbetween will happen.


I can understand your views, I just don't think that trying to make life "fair" really works.

[Douglas]

I think it is fair to say that most americans do not share Lyle's views and mentality. I know for sure the majority of them I have met don't. We have our share of agenda driven lying politicians here, just like the rest of the world. Thing is though, we aren't afraid to call them out on their bullshit. I thought that was our job seeing we put them there.

Most of the ones I have met are fairly decent people, and don't tend to clump everyone and everything into little agenda oriented boxes of 'right' and 'wrong', 'my way or the highway'.

I doubt many of them would say,."Stupid useless Canadians"...much like I wouldn't say, "Stupid useless Americans". And we generally can agree that there is more to good people, then their countries current political agenda and mission.

Try telling that to a sheep though. It will just sit there and chomp it's food and make goofy noises.

Some people are like that.