Ono's guide to building muscle - Biceps

[ono]

Also wanted to add that Lyle is spot on with how he performs his exercises.....slow and controlled. Without using momentum.

[El Kabong]

Also wanted to add that Lyle is spot on with how he performs his exercises.....slow and controlled. Without using momentum.

The lighter weight and more reps are more to help the technique than to burn more fat or "tone up"...using constant weight on a machine or on TheraBands and doing slow steady reps also helps.


To tone and define you have to "feel the burn" only when you are feeling the burn can you build muscle or burn fat off your arms. Working after that burn is great stuff

[p4pking]

Isolating any one muscle group is rarely beneficial towards any athletic pursuit.

[AdamGB]

Isolating any one muscle group is rarely beneficial towards any athletic pursuit.

The trick is not to neglect the other muscles groups and to use isolation exercises to supplement the work that you are doing.

[ono]

Isolating any one muscle group is rarely beneficial towards any athletic pursuit.

Once again, this article is for aesthetics only. Nothing to do with Boxing or any other sport.

[tyciol]

I don't see why we should try to eliminate the brachialis. Since it partly runs beneath the biceps, if it increases in size it's going to make the biceps stick out more anyway right?

No correct. I mean chin ups. palm in. Biceps Exercises - Chin Ups

The guy in the video is performing a pull up, not a chin up. Regardless of what the title says. Chin-up - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia specifically "Chin-ups are often incorrectly referred to as pull-ups. The term pull-up is traditionally used when the exercise is performed with a pronated grip"

pronation /pro·na·tion/ (-na´shun) the act of assuming the prone position, or the state of being prone. Applied to the hand, the act of turning the palm backward (posteriorly) or downward, performed by medial rotation of the forearm. Applied to the foot, a combination of eversion and abduction movements taking place in the tarsal and metatarsal joints and resulting in lowering of the medial margin of the foot, hence of the longitudinal arch.

The guy in the video looks like he's performing a chin-up, not a pull-up, to me... his arms ARE supinated, not pronated. Perhaps they corrected the video since you last looked at it?

i've seen the best results doing chin ups and weighted chin ups, there much better than any weights IMO and you see faster results, at least in my case i did.

They seem like something better for beginners to me, for building the 'foundation' at least, sort of like doing squats and deadlifts for hamstrings even though you might isolate them with leg curls later on.

To be honest, even though I've always enjoyed and still do enjoy biceps... ever since I found out what lats were and was actually able to feel mine after doing chins a while, I enjoy them way more than I ever did biceps. Maybe it was seeing that one pic of Bruce Lee's lats, but they're a way cooler muscle, they're like bird's wings the same way traps are like a cobra's hood.

Incorrect. Chin ups primarily incorporate your lats. I think you mean pull ups. Biceps are involved when performing pull-ups (not chin ups)

I think he's right actually, chinups' supinated grip has the biceps in a much stronger position. I think pull-ups might actually be the ones that rely on lats more. The elbows tend to be more 'out' when you do them pronated and I think that stresses the lats more or something. Not sure why.

To build muscle, you have to recruit as many muscle fibres as possible (into the exercise). While pull ups and chin ups are excellent compound movements they do not completely isolate the biceps anywhere near as effectively as the 3 mentioned exercises.

It's true you have to stimulate as many as possible, and it's true that it doesn't isolate them... why do isolation exercises necessarily stimulate the most muscle fibres? Initially, you might be blocked from unleashing your full strength because the biceps may not be the first to fail (often in chins, it's your grip or maybe your lats that fail first) but once the strength of weaker areas catch up it should be getting stressed too. Since you can use heavier weights with compound exercises it's easier to microload them. With curls you have to make pretty big jumps in weight, it can be sort of stressful and you have to vary the rep range a bit more to build up to that, doing higher reps before making the next jump, or using tricky stuff like forced reps or negatives to make that jump. It's sort of like the same problem you get curling dumbbells versus curling barbells, the jumps.

I think having a compound/isolation combo's the coolest because the isolation lets you more directly measure if youre strength is improving or not, and you can always do it after the compound if you've still got juice left but can't keep doing the compound because some other area got weak first. I think it's called a 'post-exhaustion' or something.

[ono]

I don't see why we should try to eliminate the brachialis. Since it partly runs beneath the biceps, if it increases in size it's going to make the biceps stick out more anyway right?

No correct. I mean chin ups. palm in. Biceps Exercises - Chin Ups

The guy in the video is performing a pull up, not a chin up. Regardless of what the title says. Chin-up - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia specifically "Chin-ups are often incorrectly referred to as pull-ups. The term pull-up is traditionally used when the exercise is performed with a pronated grip"

pronation /pro·na·tion/ (-na´shun) the act of assuming the prone position, or the state of being prone. Applied to the hand, the act of turning the palm backward (posteriorly) or downward, performed by medial rotation of the forearm. Applied to the foot, a combination of eversion and abduction movements taking place in the tarsal and metatarsal joints and resulting in lowering of the medial margin of the foot, hence of the longitudinal arch.

The guy in the video looks like he's performing a chin-up, not a pull-up, to me... his arms ARE supinated, not pronated. Perhaps they corrected the video since you last looked at it?

They seem like something better for beginners to me, for building the 'foundation' at least, sort of like doing squats and deadlifts for hamstrings even though you might isolate them with leg curls later on.

To be honest, even though I've always enjoyed and still do enjoy biceps... ever since I found out what lats were and was actually able to feel mine after doing chins a while, I enjoy them way more than I ever did biceps. Maybe it was seeing that one pic of Bruce Lee's lats, but they're a way cooler muscle, they're like bird's wings the same way traps are like a cobra's hood.

Incorrect. Chin ups primarily incorporate your lats. I think you mean pull ups. Biceps are involved when performing pull-ups (not chin ups)

I think he's right actually, chinups' supinated grip has the biceps in a much stronger position. I think pull-ups might actually be the ones that rely on lats more. The elbows tend to be more 'out' when you do them pronated and I think that stresses the lats more or something. Not sure why.

To build muscle, you have to recruit as many muscle fibres as possible (into the exercise). While pull ups and chin ups are excellent compound movements they do not completely isolate the biceps anywhere near as effectively as the 3 mentioned exercises.

It's true you have to stimulate as many as possible, and it's true that it doesn't isolate them... why do isolation exercises necessarily stimulate the most muscle fibres? Initially, you might be blocked from unleashing your full strength because the biceps may not be the first to fail (often in chins, it's your grip or maybe your lats that fail first) but once the strength of weaker areas catch up it should be getting stressed too. Since you can use heavier weights with compound exercises it's easier to microload them. With curls you have to make pretty big jumps in weight, it can be sort of stressful and you have to vary the rep range a bit more to build up to that, doing higher reps before making the next jump, or using tricky stuff like forced reps or negatives to make that jump. It's sort of like the same problem you get curling dumbbells versus curling barbells, the jumps.

I think having a compound/isolation combo's the coolest because the isolation lets you more directly measure if youre strength is improving or not, and you can always do it after the compound if you've still got juice left but can't keep doing the compound because some other area got weak first. I think it's called a 'post-exhaustion' or something.

Just to answer your questions/points:

1: I'm not all for eliminating the Brachialis. I was saying it would be more beneficial to incorporate an exercise that thoroughly stimulates the bicep rather than an exercise where the brachialis takes over before the bicep can be fully stimulated (like the barbell curl). Once you have fully stimulated the bicep, then it would be beneficial to specifically stimulate the brachialis, as like you said, the brachialis runs partially beneath the biceps brachi, thus pushing the bicep up which creates the illusion of bigger arms. Hope that clears it up.

2: I stand corrected, the literature i was using has a few incorrect terminologies in it (quite a dated textbook). Specifically the difference between chin ups and pull ups. Apologies all around. Luckily it's not important the thread

3: Isolation exercises don't stimulate the most muscle fibers overall. But they stimulate the most muscle fibers within the targetted area. Isolation exercises are useful when you want maximum growth within a targetted area. Like the biceps for example.

[El Kabong]

Isolating any one muscle group is rarely beneficial towards any athletic pursuit.

True but the best way to build a total body of good muscles is to isolate the muscles during your workout. The thing is that you have to pair muscle groups together during your workout but on each exercise you isolate one muscle group at a time.


And on off days/cardio days you lightly work all muscles by swimming or something like that.



As for triceps they are an extending muscle and not a contracting muscle and therefore when it comes to punching then powerful triceps are a big help but they cannot be the ONLY strong muscle you have in your punch because you punch with your whole body.

IMO your core muscles are the most important abs and back...without them you can't build up your legs or upperbody as much as you can with that base of support for the weight to sit on

[Scrap]

Lactic Acid, is the by product of the proteins Ameno Acids waste, your Biulding Blocks.

[Scrap]

Lyle all muscles cotract whether Abduct or adduct they all contract.

[El Kabong]

Lyle all muscles cotract whether Abduct or adduct they all contract.

I'm saying when you extend your arm is when the triceps are doing the work and the biceps are relaxed. Ergo the triceps are a muscle group essential to extending your arms and the biceps are essential to contracting your arms and therefore the triceps would be more important to punching.


Hey working past "the burn" is what Ah-nold said is what builds muscles....who am I to argue with him Go watch 'Pumping Iron'

[ono]

Isolating any one muscle group is rarely beneficial towards any athletic pursuit.

True but the best way to build a total body of good muscles is to isolate the muscles during your workout. The thing is that you have to pair muscle groups together during your workout but on each exercise you isolate one muscle group at a time.


And on off days/cardio days you lightly work all muscles by swimming or something like that.



As for triceps they are an extending muscle and not a contracting muscle and therefore when it comes to punching then powerful triceps are a big help but they cannot be the ONLY strong muscle you have in your punch because you punch with your whole body.

IMO your core muscles are the most important abs and back...without them you can't build up your legs or upperbody as much as you can with that base of support for the weight to sit on

Yeh i agree core strength is very important. Especially in competition. That's why aggressive fighters (like ricky hatton) can struggle when moving up in weight (especially if they have to do it quickly). Their core strength isn't at the level of a naturally bigger fighter.....in most cases.

[ono]

Also wanted to add that Lyle is spot on with how he performs his exercises.....slow and controlled. Without using momentum.

The lighter weight and more reps are more to help the technique than to burn more fat or "tone up"...using constant weight on a machine or on TheraBands and doing slow steady reps also helps.


To tone and define you have to "feel the burn" only when you are feeling the burn can you build muscle or burn fat off your arms. Working after that burn is great stuff

The burn feeling is actually caused by a build up of lactic acid. Basically lactic acid is a metabolic waste product that is produced as the body burns carbs for energy. It has nothing to do with muscle hypertrophy (the building of muscle).



And you can't just specifically burn fat from your arms either. You cannot spot reduce. Like you can't burn fat from your stomach by doing crunches. Same principal all over the body.