If you had to make a P4P list for the little guys

[Violent Demise]

under 122...


1. Mijares
2. Ivan
3. Montiel
4. Hasegawa
5. Nonito
6. Solis
7. Penalosa
8. Sakata
9. Narvaez
10. Cazares
11. Niida
12. Oleydong
13. Nietes
14. Naito
15. Munoz

Your list is good. But i think Montiel should be number 1. I think he clearly deserved the win against Johnny Gonzalez. And I'm actually shocked that you would have Niida so low.

[CutMeMick]

1 Fernando Monteil
2 Christian Mijares
3 Ivan Calderon
4 Hozumi Hasegawa
5 Ulises Solis
6 Yutaka Niida
7 Nonito Donaire
8 Takefumi Sakata
9 Omar Narvaez
10 Daisuke Naito
11 Gerry Penalosa
12 Koki Kameda
13 Silence Mabuza
14 Hugo Cazares
15 Joseph Agbeko
16 Z Gorres
17 Alexander Munoz
18 Oleydong Something
19 Brahim Asloum
20 Giovanni Segura

VD, I know you like Koki a lot but really #12 P4P...
(this isn't a skills list this is just p4p)

How are Koki, Silence, Gorres and Segura on your list but no Sosa or Nietes who IMO have clearly done more in p4p terms then Koki, Silence, Gorres and def. more then the young Segura.

Regarding Sosa non-placement. Easy. I forgot about him. Nietes has done more than Segura. I agree. But I seen one of Nietes fights. Every fighter on my lists I seen at least 3 times. Including the obscure Olyedong. For some reason I'm having a hard time locating Nietes fights. I can't really rate a fighter I seen so little of.

The thing with Sosa is he is low profile meaning he's not as talked about as much as the other champs are.
That makes sense on Nietes, I remember now you saying the other time you haven't seen much of him. Makes sense...

Micks list and VD's pretty much say it all. Hasegawa has accomplished alot more than Donaire so that's justified.

1. Calderon
2. Mijares
3. Montiel
4. Hasegawa
5. Sakata
6. Solis
7. Penalosa
Mine would go domething like that.More like Micks I think. Calderon HAS to be first imo. No question about it. 2 weight champ. Undefeated.Upteen defences. And rarely gets hit in a fight. AND beat some of th best fighters around along the way. Mijares has a way to go before he catches up to that imo,especially as Ivan is fighting Hugo again.

For me it can def. be a coin toss between Calderon, Montiel & Mijares.
Anyone of those at 1,2,3 can be justified...

under 122...
1. Mijares
2. Ivan
3. Montiel
4. Hasegawa
5. Nonito
6. Solis
7. Penalosa
8. Sakata
9. Narvaez
10. Cazares
11. Niida
12. Oleydong
13. Nietes
14. Naito
15. Munoz

Your list is good. But i think Montiel should be number 1. I think he clearly deserved the win against Johnny Gonzalez. And I'm actually shocked that you would have Niida so low.

I think I scored that fight by one point for Jhonny but it clearly could have gone either way.

The thing with Niida for me was quality of opposition. His title reign and his skills are superb but aside from Porpaoin there's really nothing there that says P4P. While you look at the guys above Niida they are just as skilled if not more plus the quality of oppsition & titles are there also. I would say that when I make lists I look at several things but I like to emphasize on 'quality of oppostion' the most I put more weigh on that then the other stuff.

[CutMeMick]

1 Fernando Monteil
2 Christian Mijares
3 Ivan Calderon
4 Hozumi Hasegawa
5 Ulises Solis
6 Yutaka Niida
7 Nonito Donaire
8 Takefumi Sakata
9 Omar Narvaez
10 Daisuke Naito
11 Gerry Penalosa
12 Koki Kameda
13 Silence Mabuza
14 Hugo Cazares
15 Joseph Agbeko
16 Z Gorres
17 Alexander Munoz
18 Oleydong Something
19 Brahim Asloum
20 Giovanni Segura

VD, I know you like Koki a lot but really #12 P4P...
(this isn't a skills list this is just p4p)

How are Koki, Silence, Gorres and Segura on your list but no Sosa or Nietes who IMO have clearly done more in p4p terms then Koki, Silence, Gorres and def. more then the young Segura.

If he atually fought in his proper weight class our little Ian Napa could whup everyone on your sucky p4p lists. He's the real deal.

Run along now...
When we start talking about Crusiers & Heavys we'll let you know.

Actually Bilbs I have seen Napa the guys got good reflexes but he's missing something. I think he needs to let his hands go a bit more. I saw his fight vs. Maldourtto (spelling) and he just needed a little more.

[Put Em' Up]

1 Fernando Monteil
2 Christian Mijares
3 Ivan Calderon
4 Hozumi Hasegawa
5 Ulises Solis
6 Yutaka Niida
7 Nonito Donaire
8 Takefumi Sakata
9 Omar Narvaez
10 Daisuke Naito
11 Gerry Penalosa
12 Koki Kameda
13 Silence Mabuza
14 Hugo Cazares
15 Joseph Agbeko
16 Z Gorres
17 Alexander Munoz
18 Oleydong Something
19 Brahim Asloum
20 Giovanni Segura

Pretty everyone covered there. Though the order can be arranged. Hasegawa does not belong above Doniare

If you seen Hasegawa fight you'll know he does. Plus he's beaten better opposition than Donaire

I have seen some of his fights, If I had not I would not comment on him. He also has a lot of ham and eggers on his resume as do many of the guys from over there.

I agree he belongs on the list but not above Doniare. Personal opinion is all. Thats what makes these list so contraversial. Now if I went and said something like Arce belongs up there above Hasegawa then that would be something very debatable, this is a matter of a spot or two

[Violent Demise]

Pretty everyone covered there. Though the order can be arranged. Hasegawa does not belong above Doniare

If you seen Hasegawa fight you'll know he does. Plus he's beaten better opposition than Donaire

I have seen some of his fights, If I had not I would not comment on him. He also has a lot of ham and eggers on his resume as do many of the guys from over there.

I agree he belongs on the list but not above Doniare. Personal opinion is all. Thats what makes these list so contraversial. Now if I went and said something like Arce belongs up there above Hasegawa then that would be something very debatable, this is a matter of a spot or two

I think Hasegawa 2 wins over the excellent Veeraphol Sahaprom, and wins over Genaro Garcia and the underrated Simone Maldrottu trump Donaire two best wins over Vic Darchinyan and Luis Maldonado