Saddo's Official Pound for Pound List II

[Phil]

Paul Williams. NO OTHER WORDS. Give TALL PAUL a chance and u will see. Return of the Boogie Man. 147 lb is his. Berto-NO. Cotto- NO. Margo- NO. Just test him and u will find out. LB for Lb. Just Test. No talk, Just TEST

Yeah Williams slipped up but came back with a bang! made it into my top ten, love to see him fight the winner of Cotto/Margarito!!

[CutMeMick]

You telling me The Ring had Gorjux and Kikui ranked? If so, that shows how POOR the division currently is/was

Fens, I think you would agree that it's ALWAYS easier for a fighter at the lower weight classes to move up in the rankings and or get a title shot A LOT sooner then fighters at the higher Div.

It has nothing to do with talent, it's just the way the lower weight classes have always worked. So I think it's unfair to say that the div. is poor.

It's clear that the Gorjux fight was what the Lazcano fight was to Hatton. A mere "gimmie" fight now let's get past the names since we've made it clear what the fights meant and now let's talk about the performance & skills displayed in each of their fights then we'll determine who did best.

[Galaxy]

Pacquiao
Calzaghe
JMM
Hopkins
Vasquez
Cotto
Pavlik
Mijares
R. Marquez
Calderon

[eagle]

Pacquiao
Calzaghe
Vasquez
Cotto
Juan Manuel Marquez
Rafa Marquez
Pavlik
Hopkins
Haye
Mijares

[Fenster]

You telling me The Ring had Gorjux and Kikui ranked? If so, that shows how POOR the division currently is/was

Fens, I think you would agree that it's ALWAYS easier for a fighter at the lower weight classes to move up in the rankings and or get a title shot A LOT sooner then fighters at the higher Div.

It has nothing to do with talent, it's just the way the lower weight classes have always worked. So I think it's unfair to say that the div. is poor.

It's clear that the Gorjux fight was what the Lazcano fight was to Hatton. A mere "gimmie" fight now let's get past the names since we've made it clear what the fights meant and now let's talk about the performance & skills displayed in each of their fights then we'll determine who did best.

That's a pretty reasonable point.

But in regards to the quality of Hatton/Mijares recent comp where RING RATED fighters are concerned.. If Gorjux and Kikui were rated by The Ring when Mijares fought them, CLEARLY the division was in a poorer state than it is now - because NEITHER are currently rated by The Ring.

If the case is they were NOT rated by The Ring when Mijares fought them, then CLEARLY Hatton has fought MORE Ring rated guys than Mijares in recent bouts.

Hatton wins 5 Ring rated fighters to Mijares 3

SO.. Hatton CLEARLY has fought SUPERIOR opposition according to The Ring.

Fact.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Come on guys, get the lists in, Its not a good representation if only half enter lists.

And enter 10 fighters or else your list will not be counted....

[killersheep]

NO Mick.. anyone that claims Navarro was "coming off a loss" is stating a FACT. Fact.

OK here's your list

Due to Pacs most recent terrific showing he jumps from 4th to 3rd on my definitive list.

1. Guzman
2. JM Marquez
3. Pac
4. Calzaghe
5. Cotto
6. Linares
7. Vazquez
8. Haye
9. Hasegawa
10. Pavlik

Fact.

Sounds like a double standard to be talking trash about Mijares when you have Hasagawa on your list. Please explain why by your standards you have Hasegawa and not Mijares, please further explain why you have JMM who just lost to PAC higher than him.

NO Fenster.. anyone that claims JMM "lost" is stating a FACT. Fact.

[Fenster]

Sounds like a double standard to be talking trash about Mijares when you have Hasagawa on your list. Please explain why by your standards you have Hasegawa and not Mijares, please further explain why you have JMM who just lost to PAC higher than him.

NO Fenster.. anyone that claims JMM "lost" is stating a FACT. Fact.

First off, I NEVER spoke trash about Mijares. I highlighted a few flaws in the argument that Mijares currently has a better record than Hatton. That's all.

Secondly, P4P is nothing more than a bit of fun. It's about fantasy match-ups. There is NO right or wrong or definitive list.

SO.. it is without doubt a FACT that Pac beat Marquez. But in MY opinion Marquez has beaten Pac - TWICE. Therefore I rate Marquez the better fighter. So in MY free rein P4P list he rates higher. Simple as.

Oh.. and Hasegawa is on my list because I favour skill over records when trying to find the winner of a fantasy match with size and weight leveled. I like him. Feel free to rubbish his worthiness.. if you like.

[killersheep]

Sounds like a double standard to be talking trash about Mijares when you have Hasagawa on your list. Please explain why by your standards you have Hasegawa and not Mijares, please further explain why you have JMM who just lost to PAC higher than him.

NO Fenster.. anyone that claims JMM "lost" is stating a FACT. Fact.

First off, I NEVER spoke trash about Mijares. I highlighted a few flaws in the argument that Mijares currently has a better record than Hatton. That's all.

Secondly, P4P is nothing more than a bit of fun. It's about fantasy match-ups. There is NO right or wrong or definitive list.

SO.. it is without doubt a FACT that Pac beat Marquez. But in MY opinion Marquez has beaten Pac - TWICE. Therefore I rate Marquez the better fighter. So in MY free rein P4P list he rates higher. Simple as.

Oh.. and Hasegawa is on my list because I favour skill over records when trying to find the winner of a fantasy match with size and weight leveled. I like him. Feel free to rubbish his worthiness.. if you like.

Actually I rather like Hasegawa, his footwork is second to none.

And more so than anything else I am using this p4p "debate" to exercise my right to be old and grumpy (I am the same age as you).

[Mikkel_K]

And no judging by records Hatton comes out behind.

Except for Mayweather (which Hatton lost to)
Mijares has fought higher rated (by the ring) fighters and been more successful against them. Period.

Not trying to enter your little debate about Hatton or Mijares, but I'll just point out the flaw in the logic here - you cannot really compare the ring rankings across divisions, and think that #7 in one division is necessarily better than #9 in another.

Beating the third best at 135 (Joan Guzman) is helluvalot better than beating the third best at 130 (Luevano), while beating the fouth best at 147 (Margarito) is even better still.

[killersheep]

And no judging by records Hatton comes out behind.

Except for Mayweather (which Hatton lost to)
Mijares has fought higher rated (by the ring) fighters and been more successful against them. Period.

Not trying to enter your little debate about Hatton or Mijares, but I'll just point out the flaw in the logic here - you cannot really compare the ring rankings across divisions, and think that #7 in one division is necessarily better than #9 in another.

Beating the third best at 135 (Joan Guzman) is helluvalot better than beating the third best at 130 (Luevano), while beating the fouth best at 147 (Margarito) is even better still.

The point is Mijares is fighting the best competition available to him and doing well against them. Hatton is not fighting the best competition available (except Mayweather where he lost).

[leftylee]

And no judging by records Hatton comes out behind.

Except for Mayweather (which Hatton lost to)
Mijares has fought higher rated (by the ring) fighters and been more successful against them. Period.

Not trying to enter your little debate about Hatton or Mijares, but I'll just point out the flaw in the logic here - you cannot really compare the ring rankings across divisions, and think that #7 in one division is necessarily better than #9 in another.

Beating the third best at 135 (Joan Guzman) is helluvalot better than beating the third best at 130 (Luevano), while beating the fouth best at 147 (Margarito) is even better still.

The point is Mijares is fighting the best competition available to him and doing well against them. Hatton is not fighting the best competition available (except Mayweather where he lost).

He's fighting paulie next. He's number 2 in the division. Maussa was a champ, Urango was (No matter how bad you think they are they were world champions at the time). The only one was Lazcano and that was a comeback fight.

[killersheep]

Not trying to enter your little debate about Hatton or Mijares, but I'll just point out the flaw in the logic here - you cannot really compare the ring rankings across divisions, and think that #7 in one division is necessarily better than #9 in another.

Beating the third best at 135 (Joan Guzman) is helluvalot better than beating the third best at 130 (Luevano), while beating the fouth best at 147 (Margarito) is even better still.

The point is Mijares is fighting the best competition available to him and doing well against them. Hatton is not fighting the best competition available (except Mayweather where he lost).

He's fighting paulie next. He's number 2 in the division. Maussa was a champ, Urango was (No matter how bad you think they are they were world champions at the time). The only one was Lazcano and that was a comeback fight.

And as I've stated before (even though Paulie's looked like shit in his last two fights) if he beats Paulie he gets back up to number 10, for fighting the best competition available.

[Mikkel_K]

And no judging by records Hatton comes out behind.

Except for Mayweather (which Hatton lost to)
Mijares has fought higher rated (by the ring) fighters and been more successful against them. Period.

Not trying to enter your little debate about Hatton or Mijares, but I'll just point out the flaw in the logic here - you cannot really compare the ring rankings across divisions, and think that #7 in one division is necessarily better than #9 in another.

Beating the third best at 135 (Joan Guzman) is helluvalot better than beating the third best at 130 (Luevano), while beating the fouth best at 147 (Margarito) is even better still.

The point is Mijares is fighting the best competition available to him and doing well against them. Hatton is not fighting the best competition available (except Mayweather where he lost).

That may or may not be a good point (I'm not sure actually). Shouldnt a boxer be judged solely on the merits of who he beats (and not by who he does not beat (or face))?

I still dont want to get into the argument over Hatton or Mijares, though.

[killersheep]

Not trying to enter your little debate about Hatton or Mijares, but I'll just point out the flaw in the logic here - you cannot really compare the ring rankings across divisions, and think that #7 in one division is necessarily better than #9 in another.

Beating the third best at 135 (Joan Guzman) is helluvalot better than beating the third best at 130 (Luevano), while beating the fouth best at 147 (Margarito) is even better still.

The point is Mijares is fighting the best competition available to him and doing well against them. Hatton is not fighting the best competition available (except Mayweather where he lost).

That may or may not be a good point (I'm not sure actually). Shouldnt a boxer be judged solely on the merits of who he beats (and not by who he does not beat (or face))?

I still dont want to get into the argument over Hatton or Mijares, though.

No I think any fighter that is worthy of p4p status has to make the decision to fight the best available or do something that far exceeds his peers. So by comparison two undefeated fighters 'Finito' Lopez was a p4p fighter, while Sven Ottke was not. The reason Ottke was not a p4p fighter was because he elected to not face the highest level of competition available to him. This is an extreme case and I an definately not trying to liken Hatton to Ottke by any means except to illustrate my point.

I would like to make clear that my p4p list changes often and for fighters to keep my respect and stay on my list they have to continue to do things to impress. This makes fighters accountable to not live off of one win and limit the amounts of fights to 1 or 2 per year, which lets be honest it is the standard operating procedure nowadays.

As far as the Hatton - Mijares argument goes

Noones gonna say they were wrong here, not me, not Fenster, not Lefty, not CutMeMick and not Hattonthehammer