The problem with Boxing & It's training.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I would say this to you Donny while you may see the benefit of the new guy, you should also not overlook the benefits you have got from your current trainer. Although skills wise and technique-wise he may have not been as good, he has got you some good fights under your belt and conditioned you very well. Looking forward you will have the experience you gained and knowledge of how to condition yourself to incredible now you can look forward to learning the sweeter side and you will be stronger from having that experience.

When I won the regional and nationals, I was largely self trained.
I literally trained alone 5 out of 6 days a week.
Not contradicting you, just some background info!

Thanks Donny, Glad to be back.

I guess I just need to practice letting my shoulder come up and see what happens. I think I have a bit of a phobia about letting my nack hunch even a little so I've avoided a lot of things in case i hunch my back attempting to do them.

I might have to reexamine how i do them and whether or not my little phobia is based anywhere in reality.

I agree with what you say. The culture sometimes seems to be that it's disrespectful to Q what you do and I'd like to see that change in boxing too.

I also think whatever you do as Diz said you really can't assume the way you've found is the best way.

Most things never reach perfection so it shouldn't be insulting to try to find ways to improve them and you'll never be able to do that without understanding the reasons you do things.

Actually the way you feel about your boxing coaches is exactly how I feel about my PhD supervisor. I'm not sure that this is a boxing specific mentality.

There are some that can look at a student and teach/encourage them to learn and be proud when they think of something new or creative. They want you to develop the mental tools and understanding you need to improve beyond what you are merely told. There are others that just want you to stay in your box whether they are conscious of that or not.

I can see you becoming more and more independent and learning where to pick up the information you need. It may be frustrating but you're not the type to be held back long term by it.

Oh I've got a terrible habit of both hunching my back and bending too much, that'll need to be amended!

I can realte with how you feel about both training and the phd.
So many educators, whether it be school/uni or boxing educate by passing on pure theory. They give the information and expect it to be learned by heart, without any real introduction, initiation or background to the subject.
Sometimes all you need is a little more information in order to understand an issue completely

[Sharla]

I would say this to you Donny while you may see the benefit of the new guy, you should also not overlook the benefits you have got from your current trainer. Although skills wise and technique-wise he may have not been as good, he has got you some good fights under your belt and conditioned you very well. Looking forward you will have the experience you gained and knowledge of how to condition yourself to incredible now you can look forward to learning the sweeter side and you will be stronger from having that experience.

When I won the regional and nationals, I was largely self trained.
I literally trained alone 5 out of 6 days a week.
Not contradicting you, just some background info!

Thanks Donny, Glad to be back.

I guess I just need to practice letting my shoulder come up and see what happens. I think I have a bit of a phobia about letting my nack hunch even a little so I've avoided a lot of things in case i hunch my back attempting to do them.

I might have to reexamine how i do them and whether or not my little phobia is based anywhere in reality.

I agree with what you say. The culture sometimes seems to be that it's disrespectful to Q what you do and I'd like to see that change in boxing too.

I also think whatever you do as Diz said you really can't assume the way you've found is the best way.

Most things never reach perfection so it shouldn't be insulting to try to find ways to improve them and you'll never be able to do that without understanding the reasons you do things.

Actually the way you feel about your boxing coaches is exactly how I feel about my PhD supervisor. I'm not sure that this is a boxing specific mentality.

There are some that can look at a student and teach/encourage them to learn and be proud when they think of something new or creative. They want you to develop the mental tools and understanding you need to improve beyond what you are merely told. There are others that just want you to stay in your box whether they are conscious of that or not.

I can see you becoming more and more independent and learning where to pick up the information you need. It may be frustrating but you're not the type to be held back long term by it.

Oh I've got a terrible habit of both hunching my back and bending too much, that'll need to be amended!

I can realte with how you feel about both training and the phd.
So many educators, whether it be school/uni or boxing educate by passing on pure theory. They give the information and expect it to be learned by heart, without any real introduction, initiation or background to the subject.
Sometimes all you need is a little more information in order to understand an issue completely

Yeah I'm not completely sure of how to get around the back hunching thing and still keep your guard up and shoulder up the way I've been told you're meant to.

Still trying to work that one out! Any advice would be great!

Yeah i think you get what i mean with school/uni educators thing. What I've noticed in research is we're NOT supposed to just wrote learn things. We're not given exams and have to regurgitate random facts. We have to problem solve but you still get the resistance to it with some researchers.

With my supervisor anything he didn't come up with it "too complicated" and that means I can't do it and there's no more explanation needed. Often I've already gotten the opinion of other scientists who are more experienced in the field and they approve so i just don't bother asking him anymore. I sneak off, do it and tell him later.

Other times he'll come up with an idea that's impractical because he's come up with it on the spot and not really thought through it but if i suggest something more practical i'm not allowed to modify his idea - even if i KNOW his idea is not going to work - unless i can get back up and permission by going over his head. I always try to get to meetings with him and the CEO to plan my work a little early so i can get things approved without his arguments.

Another PhD student has another supervisor (Russian) and he'll ask her to use grain from her plants for an experiment and plant them up and take measurements and samples for another scientist (Chinese) to analyze. Rather than including her on the meeting with this other scientist he'll just gave her orders and didn't really let her know what the final point of the experiment was going to be etc.

The whole thing was wasted because her Russian supervisor couldn't understand the strong accent of the Chinese scientist and they used the wrong grain. Weeks of work down the drain because he couldn't include her in their meetings. He couldn't relinquish that control.

Even if you're at a stage - where like you - you've been in the game long enough to have the basics and to be able to coach - some people don't like the idea of you having independent thought. They feel threatened by someone having ideas they haven't thought of or by having to see that you've grown beyond that infantile stage.

[Scrap]

Shalaa get a cheap fishing net.

[donnydarkoIRL]

The man to see about that is Scrap.
Honestly, what he showed me in Belfast taught me how to cure that problem and I'm sure he won't mind telling you.

I know what you mean about the educators. This year was in industrial placement for me and I felt I did so much better with the self directed learning. I only wish this was my last year!!!



Is there a board that monitors your supervisors, that you could complain to or make suggestions to in order to improve. It has to be frustrating dealing with people like that. I find they sound a bit arrogant and condescending from you description.
I know you wouldn't like reporting them, but at the end of the day, they're there for you. Their only function is to help your learning not frustrate or hold you back.

As for the language barrier....oh dear....we were in college in our second year. We prepared a project in a group and the lecturer randomnly selected the spesker to present the report in front of the entirter class, our marks would be awarded on this presentation. Randomnly the lectureer assigned a guy with a terrible stutter to be our speaker.
It was entirely up to him whether to sp3eak or not. None of the rest of the group wanted to say "I thinbk we should do it," and he never stepped back from the challenge. I worked especially hard on the report, putting together I would say 80% of the entire project and I knew it was good stuff.

On the day he stood on front of the class and nerves made his stutter worse and worse, making it appear as if the report ahd a million and one holes in it......Disaster....came out with 20%.
I hate being held back by thrid parties.

[Scrap]

Sometime Coaching can be the wound, Not the Bandage thats a Truth

[donnydarkoIRL]

Sometime Coaching can be the wound, Not the Bandage thats a Truth

I know that you know him Scrap and I'd hate to insult him if you're friends,
But thats how I view Graham/Hatton at the moment.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Scrap, you're starting to sound like Andre

[Scrap]

Good I must be talking sense then .

[Andre]

Scrap, you're starting to sound like Andre

Cause he wants to cast his lure to the exact target; the ones that'll think it out, instead of get it handed to them on a plate .

[Sharla]

Shalaa get a cheap fishing net.

Right yes i remember - I couldn't find a cane fishing net last time I looked but I'll try again or try to find the equivalent. Thanks Scrap!

Is there a board that monitors your supervisors, that you could complain to or make suggestions to in order to improve. It has to be frustrating dealing with people like that. I find they sound a bit arrogant and condescending from you description.
I know you wouldn't like reporting them, but at the end of the day, they're there for you. Their only function is to help your learning not frustrate or hold you back.

As for the language barrier....oh dear....we were in college in our second year. We prepared a project in a group and the lecturer randomnly selected the spesker to present the report in front of the entirter class, our marks would be awarded on this presentation. Randomnly the lectureer assigned a guy with a terrible stutter to be our speaker.
It was entirely up to him whether to sp3eak or not. None of the rest of the group wanted to say "I thinbk we should do it," and he never stepped back from the challenge. I worked especially hard on the report, putting together I would say 80% of the entire project and I knew it was good stuff.

On the day he stood on front of the class and nerves made his stutter worse and worse, making it appear as if the report ahd a million and one holes in it......Disaster....came out with 20%.
I hate being held back by thrid parties.

Yeah Donny I'm flattered you think I'm the type to be patient enough not to have complained - but really I'm an impatient cow! I did probably take a little longer to bring up certain issues than I should have - almost a year but I have brought it up well and truly now.

I submitted a supervision report to the head CEO. I spoke to a university councellor about it who told me how to go about documenting things. I made collaborations with interstate scientists in my field so that they could back me up on the problems which formed the basis of my project which my supervisor didn't want to face up to.

I don't know if it had anything to do with all of my hissy fits or just the general vibe from all the PhD students but the university launched an enquiry into the way PhD students were managed in our centre. We were all interviewed by an impartial scientist brought in from overseas and he had to submit a report.

Now they have set in place things like if you have a non-native english speaking supervisor you also need to have another one who is a native english speaker. They even have to have other people in the field who are not supervisors but monitor the projects to make sure that they are realistic and doable in the time we have.

They also have a PhD students committee so we can ask for help with supervisor and project issues. All this has only just come into place in the last couple of months and I'm meant to be finishing soonish. It's too late to help me but hopefully some of the more difficult supervisors will have to think about whether or not they really want a student or just a technition.

The problem with the Russian guy supervising my friend is all his technitions quit but his students are locked in for 3 years. He has always chosen mild mannered men (total of 2) or female (many) people to be his students and technitions. People who don't yell back or in the case of my friend just don't bother yelling back anymore because he's louder.

He's getting to the bottom of the pool of people who will work with him now though. His next supervisor is going to be another adult experienced Russian male and I'm actually really looking forward to the fireworks in a twisted sick kinda way!

Too bad to hear about what happened with your report. Especially being so busy with all your other responsibilities it must be so frustrating to put effort into something not have it shown properly.

At least you know it will be a different story when you present your individual work. I don't know about you but having ring time in front of small crowds makes public speaking relatively easy for me in comparison.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Your complaint doesn't seem to be so much with boxing or training... you just found a better trainer for you.

It's an observation that sometimes, the people who win fights don't necessarily have better technique (or at least, the best technique for themself) and get by on talent, guts, perserverence, intuition, etc.

It's an observation that being a champion doesn't mean you can train them, or that if you train champions it doesn't necessarily mean you teach the best technique, or at least, not the best technique for everyone.

Sometimes there are genius coaches out there who just don't get any talented or dedicated pupils to properly apply their methods, and then one finds you, and you discover them, sort of in the same way a coach who's not very good might discover a pupil who is really dedicated and has great intuition and ability to read an opponent, even if the methods they're using against them aren't as good as they could be under a better coach's techniques.

I've trained in numerous gyms in my country.
I think that there is a common attitude and perception. toward boxing and it's training in these gyms.
The trainers are inflexible and as a community they believe themselves 100% correct. So I feel the problem is general and not just applicable to my own circumstances.

I personally lay testament to your claim about winning without being the better boxer.
And yet, although I have gotten by on physicality, fitness and a little natural ability, I strive to become more skilled.


Knowledge is certainly not distributed evenly in the boxing world.
Not geographically or quantitatively.

Shalaa get a cheap fishing net.

Right yes i remember - I couldn't find a cane fishing net last time I looked but I'll try again or try to find the equivalent. Thanks Scrap!

Is there a board that monitors your supervisors, that you could complain to or make suggestions to in order to improve. It has to be frustrating dealing with people like that. I find they sound a bit arrogant and condescending from you description.
I know you wouldn't like reporting them, but at the end of the day, they're there for you. Their only function is to help your learning not frustrate or hold you back.

As for the language barrier....oh dear....we were in college in our second year. We prepared a project in a group and the lecturer randomnly selected the spesker to present the report in front of the entirter class, our marks would be awarded on this presentation. Randomnly the lectureer assigned a guy with a terrible stutter to be our speaker.
It was entirely up to him whether to sp3eak or not. None of the rest of the group wanted to say "I thinbk we should do it," and he never stepped back from the challenge. I worked especially hard on the report, putting together I would say 80% of the entire project and I knew it was good stuff.

On the day he stood on front of the class and nerves made his stutter worse and worse, making it appear as if the report ahd a million and one holes in it......Disaster....came out with 20%.
I hate being held back by thrid parties.

Yeah Donny I'm flattered you think I'm the type to be patient enough not to have complained - but really I'm an impatient cow! I did probably take a little longer to bring up certain issues than I should have - almost a year but I have brought it up well and truly now.

I submitted a supervision report to the head CEO. I spoke to a university councellor about it who told me how to go about documenting things. I made collaborations with interstate scientists in my field so that they could back me up on the problems which formed the basis of my project which my supervisor didn't want to face up to.

I don't know if it had anything to do with all of my hissy fits or just the general vibe from all the PhD students but the university launched an enquiry into the way PhD students were managed in our centre. We were all interviewed by an impartial scientist brought in from overseas and he had to submit a report.

Now they have set in place things like if you have a non-native english speaking supervisor you also need to have another one who is a native english speaker. They even have to have other people in the field who are not supervisors but monitor the projects to make sure that they are realistic and doable in the time we have.

They also have a PhD students committee so we can ask for help with supervisor and project issues. All this has only just come into place in the last couple of months and I'm meant to be finishing soonish. It's too late to help me but hopefully some of the more difficult supervisors will have to think about whether or not they really want a student or just a technition.

The problem with the Russian guy supervising my friend is all his technitions quit but his students are locked in for 3 years. He has always chosen mild mannered men (total of 2) or female (many) people to be his students and technitions. People who don't yell back or in the case of my friend just don't bother yelling back anymore because he's louder.

He's getting to the bottom of the pool of people who will work with him now though. His next supervisor is going to be another adult experienced Russian male and I'm actually really looking forward to the fireworks in a twisted sick kinda way!

Too bad to hear about what happened with your report. Especially being so busy with all your other responsibilities it must be so frustrating to put effort into something not have it shown properly.

At least you know it will be a different story when you present your individual work. I don't know about you but having ring time in front of small crowds makes public speaking relatively easy for me in comparison.

Sharla....
One sentence reply here.

I aspire to do what you have done in my next year, well done.

[Sharla]

Sharla....
One sentence reply here.

I aspire to do what you have done in my next year, well done.

Thanks Donny - but it took me 3 years

I wasted waaaaaay too much time feeling sorry for myself, being in denial, cracking sooky la las and seeing myself as a victim which is bad for reasons Andre has touched on in other threads.

I doubt you'll make the same mistakes as me somehow though!

Good luck - not that you'll need it