Margarito now #6....

[Fenster]

Spot on mate. If you want to become a champion beat the champion. Simple as that isn't it. The myth p4p rate is the same. If you beat the #1 p4p, you inherit his place. The reason why its hard to debate regarding p4p myth is that some still think its about technique or style. What if a fighter have technique or style but fighting bums or non rated... are they still p4p fighter? Its supposed to be who you beat to make it to the list. By the way i'm not a fun of this myth rating. It's nothing and really tiring to debate on...

Beat the man to take his place? That doesn't work. Technique and style HAVE to be a factor in P4P.

The strength of each division and the fighters operating in them changes constantly.

What about P4P fighters that become OLD (more chance of losing) but still retain their position?

Pac is currently ranked 1. He is moving up in weight which increases his chance of LOSING without losing his P4P ranking. What if David Diaz had sparked him out. Diaz deserves to be ranked the BEST fighter on earth?

Hmm

Surely the p4p rankings are there to show who would be the best fighter in the world if everybody fought at the same weight?

So there is no way that Cotto can be above Margarito...

I agree that a fighter moving up several weight division and finally losing isn't enough for him to lose his place...if it was apparent that it was purely the weight factor that beat him. (how you decide that, god only knows).

And maybe freak occurances like for example if someone like Carlos Maussa somehow fought Mayweather(if he was stil #1) and caught him (somehow again) with a brutal left hook and ko'd him, then moving him to number 1 based on that might be a little shifty....because 99times out of 100 Mayweather would beat him.

But, the way in which Margarito beat Cotto to me means that Cotto cannot be above him. I see no way how Cotto can beat him. I think Saturday proved that. It wasn't a freak occurence. It was a mental beatdown.

I agree that technique and style have to be factor but it shouldn't be everything....because it's clearly not everything in boxing. I think you have to judge each case on it's merit, but to me, if a fighter beats the 'man' and does it decisively....without it being freak occurence or the result of a guy fighting way above/below their weight range, then he should take his place.

and breathe....

Of course technique and style shouldn't be everthing. They go with longevity, quality of opposition etc..

Damn! You write some confusing stuff ono

Who said Cotto should rank above Margarito? I missed that.

In Margarito's case - he enhanced his standing among the top fighters in the world. He ranks higher than Cotto.

But as your own examples highlighted (before you went back to your original opinion ) taking the place of the fighter you defeated is highly flawed.

[ono]

Beat the man to take his place? That doesn't work. Technique and style HAVE to be a factor in P4P.

The strength of each division and the fighters operating in them changes constantly.

What about P4P fighters that become OLD (more chance of losing) but still retain their position?

Pac is currently ranked 1. He is moving up in weight which increases his chance of LOSING without losing his P4P ranking. What if David Diaz had sparked him out. Diaz deserves to be ranked the BEST fighter on earth?

Hmm

Surely the p4p rankings are there to show who would be the best fighter in the world if everybody fought at the same weight?

So there is no way that Cotto can be above Margarito...

I agree that a fighter moving up several weight division and finally losing isn't enough for him to lose his place...if it was apparent that it was purely the weight factor that beat him. (how you decide that, god only knows).

And maybe freak occurances like for example if someone like Carlos Maussa somehow fought Mayweather(if he was stil #1) and caught him (somehow again) with a brutal left hook and ko'd him, then moving him to number 1 based on that might be a little shifty....because 99times out of 100 Mayweather would beat him.

But, the way in which Margarito beat Cotto to me means that Cotto cannot be above him. I see no way how Cotto can beat him. I think Saturday proved that. It wasn't a freak occurence. It was a mental beatdown.

I agree that technique and style have to be factor but it shouldn't be everything....because it's clearly not everything in boxing. I think you have to judge each case on it's merit, but to me, if a fighter beats the 'man' and does it decisively....without it being freak occurence or the result of a guy fighting way above/below their weight range, then he should take his place.

and breathe....

Of course technique and style shouldn't be everthing. They go with longevity, quality of opposition etc..

Damn! You write some confusing stuff ono

Who said Cotto should rank above Margarito? I missed that.

In Margarito's case - he enhanced his standing among the top fighters in the world. He ranks higher than Cotto.

But as your own examples highlighted (before you went back to your original opinion ) taking the place of the fighter you defeated is highly flawed.

Yeah i confused myself actually. Forgot what the thread was even about in the end...

Anyway yeah it's flawed...i didn't take into consideration what you pointed out (diaz beating pac and being #1 etc...)

But yeah providing there wasn't obvious exceptional circumstances in the defeat (complete fluke, losing several divisions outside your weight range etc...) i think it's justified.

All in all, i'd suggest judging each case on it's merit.

Fuck sake i've basically just repeated my last post again.

Yeah ignore me, you get my point anyway....i hope

[ono]

I'll also add that a fighter who didn't rank anywhere near the top 20 was to somehow defrone the p4p king, i'd be hesitant at putting him at the top.

Jesus, if i backtrack anymore i'll be typing from the bathroom

I'm going

[Fenster]

I'll also add that a fighter who didn't rank anywhere near the top 20 was to somehow defrone the p4p king, i'd be hesitant at putting him at the top.

Jesus, if i backtrack anymore i'll be typing from the bathroom

I'm going

[antimoron]

You see guys this is the problem of the myth rating. No argument that can satisfy everybody. It's too vague. In boxing risk is everything. Sometimes we are not convince when somebody who is not rated beat a p4p rated fighter. We sometimes look at it as a 1 off or fluke. But still a win is a win. Remember fighters are professionals so its not right to say he didn't train hard or any stupid reason when they lost. The winner deserve what he achieved. What is there to fight for if we consider the loser still above the winner when it comes to ratings just because he is more skilled and been there for a long time. Again you have to risk what you have to prove you deserve to be in the myth list. Actually all arguments regarding myth p4p ratings are 99% correct it's just that its hard to compare each fighters achievements coz they are not fighting at the same division and theres still a 1% doubt. Just take a look at Calzaghe's and Pacman's achievements, both are considered p4p top fighters but who is the best? If we use the criteria longetivity, skill, technique, quality of opponents and winnings/losses, it will not solve anything on who is the best.