Roy Jones: the boxing genius

[rjj tszyu]

"Now obviously Roy has been the best athlete to ever grace the sport of boxing" er no.

Great fighter yes but that is over playing it especially when you consider what went on with Roy from Tony - Tarver and the "ripped fuel" thing.

Was a great but not the best athlete in boxing history.

Leonard and Oscar looked human because of who they were fighting......... now who was Roy fighting when you made that assumption? i rest my case.

OK Roy wasn't consistently fighting as good fighters as Oscar and Leonard (because his divisions didn't have the same level of competition) but he fought Toney and Hopkins in their primes and easily beat both and barring Hagler I'd put them up as being as good as anyone Oscar, Floyd or Leonard ever fought.

Another point is people seem to think that Roy didn't carry his power upto LHW. This is wrong he did (see Griffen II). The thing was he was at this point deemed as being the greatest fighter in the world (deservedly) and was trying to display his skills more than his power and this sometimes seemed as though he no longer had a big KO punch. The only division IMO he didn't carry his power upto was Heavyweight which is understandable when you consider he started as a Junior middleweight.

So you consider Jones a better fighter P4P than Hearns and Duran? he is good but if Jones was a Welterweight i couldnt see him beating Hearns or if he were a Lightweight lasting 5rds with Duran.

Yes I do. I think that Roy would KO Hearns, too much skill and would be able to dodge his big power shots all night long and he would DO a similar if not better job on Duran as Leonard did in the second fight when he QUIT.

[Markusdarkus]

OK Roy wasn't consistently fighting as good fighters as Oscar and Leonard (because his divisions didn't have the same level of competition) but he fought Toney and Hopkins in their primes and easily beat both and barring Hagler I'd put them up as being as good as anyone Oscar, Floyd or Leonard ever fought.

Another point is people seem to think that Roy didn't carry his power upto LHW. This is wrong he did (see Griffen II). The thing was he was at this point deemed as being the greatest fighter in the world (deservedly) and was trying to display his skills more than his power and this sometimes seemed as though he no longer had a big KO punch. The only division IMO he didn't carry his power upto was Heavyweight which is understandable when you consider he started as a Junior middleweight.

So you consider Jones a better fighter P4P than Hearns and Duran? he is good but if Jones was a Welterweight i couldnt see him beating Hearns or if he were a Lightweight lasting 5rds with Duran.

Yes I do. I think that Roy would KO Hearns, too much skill and would be able to dodge his big power shots all night long and he would DO a similar if not better job on Duran as Leonard did in the second fight when he QUIT.

P4P? a rather strange comment seen as a prime Leonard couldnt get away from Hearns jab and right hand. And a Lightweight Duran was an animal i think Roys lack of workrate and lack of chin would be exposed.

Like i said if Roy fought those guys at there best weight. A win over James Toney and a gift over Antonio Tarver doesnt cut it for me im affraid. And again Leonard did things that Jones did and it was always against cans he could get away with it.

[JonnyFolds]

Well you also gotta consider that by the time Jones was fighting Tarver and Johnson getting KOed, Leonard was making a comeback and getting his butt whooped by Camacho and Norris.
Interesting that both of these guys faded at about 35-36. Jones had more fights, but Leonard def fought some more dangerous opposition. I would not call Jones' lineup "easy" though. Seems like everyone thinks that Jones just skated by in the 90's. Hell no, he moved up in weight and fought everybody. I am sure i am not alone when I think that Jones has more than a sporting chance against Calzaghe. One thing you gotta remember about Jones, he NEVER came in any of his fights out of shape. And with Calz it's gonna go 12 rounds. So will Jones pull off the upset? I think not, but it will be close.

Jones is the right genius, and imo, top 5 p4p fighter of all time.

[Markusdarkus]

Well you also gotta consider that by the time Jones was fighting Tarver and Johnson getting KOed, Leonard was making a comeback and getting his butt whooped by Camacho and Norris.
Interesting that both of these guys faded at about 35-36. Jones had more fights, but Leonard def fought some more dangerous opposition. I would not call Jones' lineup "easy" though. Seems like everyone thinks that Jones just skated by in the 90's. Hell no, he moved up in weight and fought everybody. I am sure i am not alone when I think that Jones has more than a sporting chance against Calzaghe. One thing you gotta remember about Jones, he NEVER came in any of his fights out of shape. And with Calz it's gonna go 12 rounds. So will Jones pull off the upset? I think not, but it will be close.

Jones is the right genius, and imo, top 5 p4p fighter of all time.

Leonard retired at 147lb then came back after 3YRS OFF and beat Marvin Hagler who was unbeaten for 11yrs at 160lbs. That is one of the greatest things in boxing history it would be like Jones taking 3yrs off then beating Lennox Lewis.

[rjj tszyu]

Well you also gotta consider that by the time Jones was fighting Tarver and Johnson getting KOed, Leonard was making a comeback and getting his butt whooped by Camacho and Norris.
Interesting that both of these guys faded at about 35-36. Jones had more fights, but Leonard def fought some more dangerous opposition. I would not call Jones' lineup "easy" though. Seems like everyone thinks that Jones just skated by in the 90's. Hell no, he moved up in weight and fought everybody. I am sure i am not alone when I think that Jones has more than a sporting chance against Calzaghe. One thing you gotta remember about Jones, he NEVER came in any of his fights out of shape. And with Calz it's gonna go 12 rounds. So will Jones pull off the upset? I think not, but it will be close.

Jones is the right genius, and imo, top 5 p4p fighter of all time.

Leonard retired at 147lb then came back after 3YRS OFF and beat Marvin Hagler who was unbeaten for 11yrs at 160lbs. That is one of the greatest things in boxing history it would be like Jones taking 3yrs off then beating Lennox Lewis.

How? Jones started as a 154lb fighter! Leonard started at 147, so it would be like Roy retiring and coming back and fighting a SMW. Lennox was a heavyweight you know?

[Markusdarkus]

Well you also gotta consider that by the time Jones was fighting Tarver and Johnson getting KOed, Leonard was making a comeback and getting his butt whooped by Camacho and Norris.
Interesting that both of these guys faded at about 35-36. Jones had more fights, but Leonard def fought some more dangerous opposition. I would not call Jones' lineup "easy" though. Seems like everyone thinks that Jones just skated by in the 90's. Hell no, he moved up in weight and fought everybody. I am sure i am not alone when I think that Jones has more than a sporting chance against Calzaghe. One thing you gotta remember about Jones, he NEVER came in any of his fights out of shape. And with Calz it's gonna go 12 rounds. So will Jones pull off the upset? I think not, but it will be close.

Jones is the right genius, and imo, top 5 p4p fighter of all time.

Leonard retired at 147lb then came back after 3YRS OFF and beat Marvin Hagler who was unbeaten for 11yrs at 160lbs. That is one of the greatest things in boxing history it would be like Jones taking 3yrs off then beating Lennox Lewis.

How? Jones started as a 154lb fighter! Leonard started at 147, so it would be like Roy retiring and coming back and fighting a SMW. Lennox was a heavyweight you know?

Leonard retired at 147lbs so he came back and stepped up two weight classes. Jones was at 175lbs then went up two divisions.

Roy wasnt going to retire at 154lbs was he? he is known as a lightheavyweight and was at that weight from his 20s.

[rjj tszyu]

Leonard retired at 147lb then came back after 3YRS OFF and beat Marvin Hagler who was unbeaten for 11yrs at 160lbs. That is one of the greatest things in boxing history it would be like Jones taking 3yrs off then beating Lennox Lewis.

How? Jones started as a 154lb fighter! Leonard started at 147, so it would be like Roy retiring and coming back and fighting a SMW. Lennox was a heavyweight you know?

Leonard retired at 147lbs so he came back and stepped up two weight classes. Jones was at 175lbs then went up two divisions.

Roy wasnt going to retire at 154lbs was he? he is known as a lightheavyweight and was at that weight from his 20s.

He only retired because of the detached retina. If Jones had got a detached retina at 154 yes he probably would have retired.

[wesrman]

I think Jones is the best athlete of our era in any sport.

I think hes the most talented fighter of all time.

If it wasnt for Sugar Ray Robinsons crazy record, i would have Roy as the greatest of all time. He may be.

[Taeth]

I think Jones is the best athlete of our era in any sport.

I think hes the most talented fighter of all time.

If it wasnt for Sugar Ray Robinsons crazy record, i would have Roy as the greatest of all time. He may be.

You can't put him as one of the best fighters, you can't put him up there with Ali, Leonard, Armstrong, Pep, Robinson, etc. not because he wasn't as good as them, but because he didn't fight enough of the right caliber of opponents to deserve it. I think he is as good as them, but he won't be in their league because of who he fought and thats valid to a degree.

Also about the athletic thing again its like a hundred meter dash, you don't need to have the fastest guys around you to be the fastest yourself. Roy Jones Jr didn't need to be fighting Hagler, Hearns, etc to change the fact htat he was a better athlete then any of them. Your competition doesn't mean shit about what kind of athlete you are.

That being said, no boxer is the top athlete in the world, and have never been the best athletes ever like Michael Vick, Usain Bolt, Wilt Chamberlain, Bo Jackson, Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Deon Sanders, etc are far more athletic then Roy Jones Jr, and they would all be better at far more sports then Roy Jones Jr would be good at. He is the best boxing athlete ever, but that is not saying much. Boxing hasn't been overly about athleticism. ALi couldn't compare to Chamberlain, Leonard wouldn't have compared to Deon Sanders, Michael JOrdan wouldn't have compared to Randy Moss, Michael Vick, L. James, Tomlinson, R. Bush, etc. Or Bo Jackson either.

I mean Michael Jordan ran a 4.3 40, he had a 42 inch vertical jump.
Michael Vick 4.27 40, 40+ vertical jump, 550 pound bench press, 650 squat, etc,etc
Wilt Chamberlain: 500 pound bench press, low 10's 100 meter dash, competitive ,at the time, Olympic level high jump.
Bo Jackson: 225 pounds 4.18 40 yard dash great at football and baseball same with Deon Sanders who ran a 4.22 40
Usain Bolt: Best 100 and 200 meter runner ever, and he has only done 100 meters this year pretty much.

[amat]

While it's very hard to say, Roy took athleticism to an entirely different level. Really, he has to be one of the most athletic guys to step into the ring, his athleticism was his game. But back to my original point, even with their physical gifts fading, if he was one of the smartest fighters of all time he would have fought past that and still won meaningful fights like guys like Leonard, Hopkins, Toney, Holyfiels all were probably smarter fighters imo.

[rjj tszyu]

While it's very hard to say, Roy took athleticism to an entirely different level. Really, he has to be one of the most athletic guys to step into the ring, his athleticism was his game. But back to my original point, even with their physical gifts fading, if he was one of the smartest fighters of all time he would have fought past that and still won meaningful fights like guys like Leonard, Hopkins, Toney, Holyfiels all were probably smarter fighters imo.

The problem with a lot of boxers is that they only realise they've lost what they once had when it gets PROVED (like against Tarver and Johnson). And now Roy knows he is not the man he was he probably won't get KO'd again.

[Taeth]

While it's very hard to say, Roy took athleticism to an entirely different level. Really, he has to be one of the most athletic guys to step into the ring, his athleticism was his game. But back to my original point, even with their physical gifts fading, if he was one of the smartest fighters of all time he would have fought past that and still won meaningful fights like guys like Leonard, Hopkins, Toney, Holyfiels all were probably smarter fighters imo.

The only old fighter I've seen rely purely on skill is Hopkins to still win fights, and I admitted he was smart as well. Leonard didn't use the same skill he did in his prime when he was older, but he could take a punch better then Roy, and he didn't ruin his body like Roy did. The same story goes for almost every great old fighter. Do you really think Fulmer, Turpin, Olson, etc would have stood a chance against Prime Robinson? Now look at Mundine, look at Berto look how fast and athletically gifted these guys are, but why can't they dominate anywhere close to Roy Jones Jr.'s level? Because they don't have that intelligence. HIs combinations weren't wrought purely out of the physical ability, their speed was, but how he put them together so well is all due to Roy's boxing intelligence. Look how athletic Zab Judah is, how come when he tries to stand in front of an opponent he gets hit a lot? Because Roy is so focused in the ring, so sharp, and so smart.

Roy JOnes Jr often knew what his opponent was doing before they did it. He didn't just overwhelm opponents, he set them up. Watch him against Glenn Kelly I believe its the first knock down, Roy was throwing a lot of looping punches and Kelly began to just pay attention to blocking hooks and Roy came in with a left uppercut.

Mike MaCcallum said that Roy was better than Leonard, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler combined. This wasn't some noob saying this, but IMO HOF'er who got owned by a Roy that wasn't even trying and that was his first fight at 175. People say Mike was super old, but he fought two close fights around that time with a very good James Toney. He wasn't at his best, but Mike was still a highly formidable opponent.


Also Roy won the Olympics, he was a great amateur fighter, you need technical boxing skills to fight at the amateur level, and he had it all.

[Markusdarkus]

While it's very hard to say, Roy took athleticism to an entirely different level. Really, he has to be one of the most athletic guys to step into the ring, his athleticism was his game. But back to my original point, even with their physical gifts fading, if he was one of the smartest fighters of all time he would have fought past that and still won meaningful fights like guys like Leonard, Hopkins, Toney, Holyfiels all were probably smarter fighters imo.

The only old fighter I've seen rely purely on skill is Hopkins to still win fights, and I admitted he was smart as well. Leonard didn't use the same skill he did in his prime when he was older, but he could take a punch better then Roy, and he didn't ruin his body like Roy did. The same story goes for almost every great old fighter. Do you really think Fulmer, Turpin, Olson, etc would have stood a chance against Prime Robinson? Now look at Mundine, look at Berto look how fast and athletically gifted these guys are, but why can't they dominate anywhere close to Roy Jones Jr.'s level? Because they don't have that intelligence. HIs combinations weren't wrought purely out of the physical ability, their speed was, but how he put them together so well is all due to Roy's boxing intelligence. Look how athletic Zab Judah is, how come when he tries to stand in front of an opponent he gets hit a lot? Because Roy is so focused in the ring, so sharp, and so smart.

Roy JOnes Jr often knew what his opponent was doing before they did it. He didn't just overwhelm opponents, he set them up. Watch him against Glenn Kelly I believe its the first knock down, Roy was throwing a lot of looping punches and Kelly began to just pay attention to blocking hooks and Roy came in with a left uppercut.

Mike MaCcallum said that Roy was better than Leonard, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler combined. This wasn't some noob saying this, but IMO HOF'er who got owned by a Roy that wasn't even trying and that was his first fight at 175. People say Mike was super old, but he fought two close fights around that time with a very good James Toney. He wasn't at his best, but Mike was still a highly formidable opponent.


Also Roy won the Olympics, he was a great amateur fighter, you need technical boxing skills to fight at the amateur level, and he had it all.

McCallum P4P would make Jones piss blood.

[Chris Nagel]

While it's very hard to say, Roy took athleticism to an entirely different level. Really, he has to be one of the most athletic guys to step into the ring, his athleticism was his game. But back to my original point, even with their physical gifts fading, if he was one of the smartest fighters of all time he would have fought past that and still won meaningful fights like guys like Leonard, Hopkins, Toney, Holyfiels all were probably smarter fighters imo.

The only old fighter I've seen rely purely on skill is Hopkins to still win fights, and I admitted he was smart as well. Leonard didn't use the same skill he did in his prime when he was older, but he could take a punch better then Roy, and he didn't ruin his body like Roy did. The same story goes for almost every great old fighter. Do you really think Fulmer, Turpin, Olson, etc would have stood a chance against Prime Robinson? Now look at Mundine, look at Berto look how fast and athletically gifted these guys are, but why can't they dominate anywhere close to Roy Jones Jr.'s level? Because they don't have that intelligence. HIs combinations weren't wrought purely out of the physical ability, their speed was, but how he put them together so well is all due to Roy's boxing intelligence. Look how athletic Zab Judah is, how come when he tries to stand in front of an opponent he gets hit a lot? Because Roy is so focused in the ring, so sharp, and so smart.

Roy JOnes Jr often knew what his opponent was doing before they did it. He didn't just overwhelm opponents, he set them up. Watch him against Glenn Kelly I believe its the first knock down, Roy was throwing a lot of looping punches and Kelly began to just pay attention to blocking hooks and Roy came in with a left uppercut.

Mike MaCcallum said that Roy was better than Leonard, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler combined. This wasn't some noob saying this, but IMO HOF'er who got owned by a Roy that wasn't even trying and that was his first fight at 175. People say Mike was super old, but he fought two close fights around that time with a very good James Toney. He wasn't at his best, but Mike was still a highly formidable opponent.


Also Roy won the Olympics, he was a great amateur fighter, you need technical boxing skills to fight at the amateur level, and he had it all.

McCallum P4P would make Jones piss blood.

Nice choice of words, I'd stake my money on that. Even when he was old he gave Jones something to think about, and he gave James Toney a lot of trouble.

When he was at his peak no one wanted anything to do with him, neither did Eubank, Hearns or Ray Leonard.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

[quote=Taeth;581920]

Now look at Mundine, look at Berto look how fast and athletically gifted these guys are, but why can't they dominate anywhere close to Roy Jones Jr.'s level?

Becasue Mundine actually tries to be Roy Jones while not quite ebing as fast or as powerfull as Roy While Berto i doubt is as fleet footed and has the reflexes Rouy had.

Look how athletic Zab Judah is, how come when he tries to stand in front of an opponent he gets hit a lot?

Because the only time Zab seems to be fast on his feet is when his jumpin in with a 1-2. And aslo again its an issue of reflexes. Zab is athletic but his reflexes dim quickly. If anything.

Roy JOnes Jr often knew what his opponent was doing before they did it.

Reflex reflex reflex...!!!

Roy was truly Superman.

Ive never considered Roy as a boxing genius, just as a phenomenon
With a Boxing Genius it always a case of them doing what they have to do to win.

With Roy it was almost a case of doing what ever he wanted!