If Usain Bolt Wins the 200m As Convincingly as the 100m...

[X]

[quote=Bilbo;584731
I think that's really a matter of subjective opinion though. Winning 8 Olympic Golds out of 8 events is every bit as inspiring imo, although Bolt did smash two world records which Phelps didn't do.

Both acheivements are incredible imo.

[/quote]

I think Phelps actually broke 8 world records during the Olympics !

[amat]

It was 7 world records Phelps had I believe but I don't know whether to take those with a grain of salt or not because ever since this LRZ racer suit came out like 100 world records have fallen in the pool. And not a single one of those records was as meaningful as the 100m and as untouchable as the 200m.

[RP33]

i say bolt doesn't even come close to phelps.. he is simply 2/8's of phelps accomplishments..

amat, you have summed up how sprinting is more than just running in a straight line, but you may be forgetting how tiring and straining swimming is.. i'd consider myself in pretty good shape, prob 7-8% body fat, and i run just about every day, and when i go to my campus's pool.. if i do one lap at almost full speed i am breathing real heavy.. Swimming is much more physically demanding than running, simply because it involves the whole body, and also water is far more resistant than air.. FAR more..

when you compare bolt to the other runners and saying that he was so far ahead of them and such, phelps was the same way.. regardless of genetics.

to diminish anything phelps has done, because a sprinter won the 100m and 200m convincingly is silly.. At the same time, i cannot praise bolt anymore for his feat, but he would have to win 4-5 more races individually, and then run in some relay races to come close to phelps..

[CutMeMick]

[quote=X;585183]

I think Phelps actually broke 8 world records during the Olympics !

You beat me to it I just checked and in all 8 events he participated in new records were set.

[RP33]

[quote=CutMeMick;585189]

I think Phelps actually broke 8 world records during the Olympics !

You beat me to it I just checked and in all 8 events he participated in new records were set.

i believe 7 of 8 were world records.. his 7th of 8 race may have only been an olympic record..

[CutMeMick]

I think 1 thing we can all agree on here is that swimming if by far the best type of excersize that you can do that we know. I'm sure amat knows that too. I think amat was trying to state his case as to why he feels running is also a tough excersize to do...

[Kev]

[quote=X;585183]

I think Phelps actually broke 8 world records during the Olympics !

Wow didn't realise, then there really is no contest, Phelps is the man of the Olympics in my opinion.

I don't know anything about the suit that Amat talks about but I really don't see how anyone can discredit Phelp's achievements based on the trunks used any more than you can discredit Bolt because of the trainers he wore?

And what about sports like cycling, sailing, rowing etc, doesn't the equipment they use get improved over time?

Improvements are sought in every field I'm sure, training, nutrition, equipment, clothing, these wll be constantly improved in every single discipline so I'm sure the suit makes no difference.

It's not like he had flippers on and a fin on his back

[amat]

I'm not diminishing what Phelps did at all. It was 7 world records btw. I'm not saying swimming isn't difficult or anything like that, all I'm saying is that Bolt's triumphs have been more eye opening then Phelps 8 golds. Granted, 8 golds is something that will never be accomplished or topped for a long time if ever. But how many other sports can you compete in and get 8 medals? 0. It's swimming and that's it so to use the numerical argument is a bit silly imo.

Every record Phelps broke had been broken in the past year. The 200m was a record most thought would stand our entire lives, that no human being would ever be able to top that. Bolt did and he made one of the most hallowed records in sports, the 100m time an absolute wash. I made this post after that. I wasn't even sure he could get the 200m record, knew he was capable but the glow around that record is really tough to beat and he did it.

I'm not simplifying Phelps' effort as just going down to his suit, but the suit does have a lot to do with the world records. It is a revolutionary suit that creates 0 friction in the water. Swimmers not using the suit were at such a disadvantage in the qualifiers and trials that before the Olympics Nike allowed all it's swimmers to not sport Nike in the Olympics but instead Speedo. Now obviously it's a level playing field since nearly every swimmer was using it and Phelps still won, but the suit has a lot to do with the world records that fell. I forget the exact number but almost every single gold medalist in the swimming events this year got the world record as well.

I'm not diminishing either, in fact the argument is fairly trivial because one is on land and one is on water. But at the very least they have to be acknowledged as equally dominant and to say Bolt has only accomplished 2/8 of what Phelps did is pretty absurd. Michael Johnson is every bit the Olympics legend as Mark Spitz and both guys got pretty much surpassed in Beijing though Spitz won the 100 freestyle which apparently is supposed to determine the world's fastest swimmer and Johnson still has the 400 record.

Scott Ostler wrote a very good article in the SF Chronicle today about the Phelps vs Bolt argument. I really recommend reading it.

Phelps now has company as the Games' poster guy

[amat]

Also, Bolt has the 2 most dominant performances of these games under his belt in 2 of the top 5 marquee events. That has to account for something

[Kev]

I'm not diminishing what Phelps did at all. It was 7 world records btw. I'm not saying swimming isn't difficult or anything like that, all I'm saying is that Bolt's triumphs have been more eye opening then Phelps 8 golds. Granted, 8 golds is something that will never be accomplished or topped for a long time if ever. But how many other sports can you compete in and get 8 medals? 0. It's swimming and that's it so to use the numerical argument is a bit silly imo.

Every record Phelps broke had been broken in the past year. The 200m was a record most thought would stand our entire lives, that no human being would ever be able to top that. Bolt did and he made one of the most hallowed records in sports, the 100m time an absolute wash. I made this post after that. I wasn't even sure he could get the 200m record, knew he was capable but the glow around that record is really tough to beat and he did it.

I'm not simplifying Phelps' effort as just going down to his suit, but the suit does have a lot to do with the world records. It is a revolutionary suit that creates 0 friction in the water. Swimmers not using the suit were at such a disadvantage in the qualifiers and trials that before the Olympics Nike allowed all it's swimmers to not sport Nike in the Olympics but instead Speedo. Now obviously it's a level playing field since nearly every swimmer was using it and Phelps still won, but the suit has a lot to do with the world records that fell. I forget the exact number but almost every single gold medalist in the swimming events this year got the world record as well.

I'm not diminishing either, in fact the argument is fairly trivial because one is on land and one is on water. But at the very least they have to be acknowledged as equally dominant and to say Bolt has only accomplished 2/8 of what Phelps did is pretty absurd. Michael Johnson is every bit the Olympics legend as Mark Spitz and both guys got pretty much surpassed in Beijing though Spitz won the 100 freestyle which apparently is supposed to determine the world's fastest swimmer and Johnson still has the 400 record.

Scott Ostler wrote a very good article in the SF Chronicle today about the Phelps vs Bolt argument. I really recommend reading it.

Phelps now has company as the Games' poster guy

I still don't see why it's easier to win more medals in swimming than on the track. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they have virtually the same events in both disciplines.

For example the 4x100 meters, couldn't Bolt be part of that winning team?

Plus why can't he run the 400 meters? Phelps swam it, why is too much a test of stamina for a sprint athlete but not a sprint swimmer?

I can't see how winning 100, 200 and 400 meter races is any easier in a pool than on land. Actually you'd think it might be harder as swimming the same distance is far harder than running it, I mean it takes Bolt less than 10 seconds to run 100 meters but Phelps 50 seconds to swim it.

Surely therefore stamina would be more of an issue in swimming where it take around 5 mins to swim 400 m rather than 40 odd seconds to run it?

I read today that the 100 and 200 meter double had been achieved 8 times before him so hardly an unknown event, although he was the first to set two world records in both.

I think both have been outstanding but Bolt doesn't eclipse Phelps for me. Carl Lewis won 4 gold medals in 1984 which is a better achievement than Bolt so Bolt isn't ready to be called the greatest just yet.

[amat]

Bolt's coach wants him to run the 400 and he could but he turned 22 between leaving the tunnel and finishing the race in the 200. A runner's prime isn't until 27-31. He'll have the 400 in his discipline next time out and some are predicting he'll be the one to break 40 seconds there. That's more of a stamina test though so who knows but it's possible that that could be his best event, he has a more conventional build for it. And sprinting takes a lot out of you. Wind sprints will bring back nightmares to basically everyone in America who played football at one time or another. I don't know what requires more but again, these are trivial points here as time doesn't tell everything, surely Phelps isn't exerting himself as much over those 5 minutes as a runner sprinting 400 is. Truth is me or you, neither of us know what takes more out of you so there is really no point bringing it up.

And I don't know what to tell you if you don't get how a swimmer gets more medals. There are a bunch of different strokes and Phelps does two of them, there is only 1 way to run so theres double the chances right there plus the backstroke and medleys where they mix and match.

If you want any further proof, research how many multiple medalists there have been in track opposed to swimming and you'll find your answer there.

Even with the long jump medal, Carl Lewis' 4 to Bolt's eventual 3 will be like splitting hairs and like I explained before in the era of specialization you just don't get the long jump/sprint hybrids anymore. Lewis didn't walk away with it like Bolt did either. No one has. Bolt is already in rarefied air in sprinting. Owens, Lewis, Johnson and Bolt is essentially how the list reads out right now.

[JT Rock]

Usain Bolt is a Juggernaut... End of discussion

I ran track and cross country in high school, sprinting is an amazing thing since the simplicity of it is just running straight ahead, there are no elaborate techniques involved other than making sure you keep your body mechanics in the sprint streamlined and economy of motion... but yea in that simplicity there is one man in this civilized world that holds an eye popping world record in probably the most basic and raw form of human competion since men were created on this earth.... Think about that for a minute

My arguement wasnt to downplay Phelps accompolishments, moreover I was lauding the sheer amazement and domination of Usain Bolt..

[JT Rock]

Bolt just got his 3rd medal by helping team Jamaican with the 400 relay, and of course broke the world record

ESPN - Bolt sets third world record of Games in 400 men's relay - Olympics