Boxrec make JMM No1 Lightweight. Who agrees?

[XaduBoxer]

To add more confusion to the no. 1 lightweight chaos, try to predict the winner of these match ups... For those fights that already happened, try to stick to the most recent official results... Enjoy and have fun ...

PAC vs David Diaz - PAC TKO9
PAC vs Campbell
PAC vs JMM - PAC SD12
PAC vs. Juan Diaz
PAC vs. Casamayor

Campbell vs David Diaz
Campbell vs PAC
Campbell vs JMM
Campbell vs. Juan Diaz - Campbell SD12
Campbell vs. Casamayor - Casamayor UD10

JMM vs David Diaz
JMM vs Campbell
JMM vs PAC - PAC SD12
JMM vs. Juan Diaz
JMM vs. Casamayor - JMM TKO11

Who do you think will come out the big winner in these match-ups?

So far PAC is 2-0-0 and Campbell and JMM are tied at 1-1-0

If I complete the match-ups, IMO PAC will come out 5-0-0, Campbell at 4-1-0 and JMM at 3-2-0 ...

So I have my no. 1 LW = PAC
.

[DAWGSWIN]

I voted no, but I understand the reasoning. Based on the results of their fights I think Pac should be #1. I know they were close fights, but decisions mean something. BTW, I don't won't to hijack this thread, but I didn't see their second fight as controversial as some writers (Dan Rafael) seem to suggest. It was a split decision and the judges cards were not out of whack. Anyone agree or disagree?

[Kev]

To add more confusion to the no. 1 lightweight chaos, try to predict the winner of these match ups... For those fights that already happened, try to stick to the most recent official results... Enjoy and have fun ...

PAC vs David Diaz - PAC TKO9
PAC vs Campbell
PAC vs JMM - PAC SD12
PAC vs. Juan Diaz
PAC vs. Casamayor

Campbell vs David Diaz
Campbell vs PAC
Campbell vs JMM
Campbell vs. Juan Diaz - Campbell SD12
Campbell vs. Casamayor - Casamayor UD10

JMM vs David Diaz
JMM vs Campbell
JMM vs PAC - PAC SD12
JMM vs. Juan Diaz
JMM vs. Casamayor - JMM TKO11

Who do you think will come out the big winner in these match-ups?

So far PAC is 2-0-0 and Campbell and JMM are tied at 1-1-0

If I complete the match-ups, IMO PAC will come out 5-0-0, Campbell at 4-1-0 and JMM at 3-2-0 ...

So I have my no. 1 LW = PAC
.

lol and a completely impartial and unbiased view it is too

[XaduBoxer]

To add more confusion to the no. 1 lightweight chaos, try to predict the winner of these match ups... For those fights that already happened, try to stick to the most recent official results... Enjoy and have fun ...

PAC vs David Diaz - PAC TKO9
PAC vs Campbell
PAC vs JMM - PAC SD12
PAC vs. Juan Diaz
PAC vs. Casamayor

Campbell vs David Diaz
Campbell vs PAC
Campbell vs JMM
Campbell vs. Juan Diaz - Campbell SD12
Campbell vs. Casamayor - Casamayor UD10

JMM vs David Diaz
JMM vs Campbell
JMM vs PAC - PAC SD12
JMM vs. Juan Diaz
JMM vs. Casamayor - JMM TKO11

Who do you think will come out the big winner in these match-ups?

So far PAC is 2-0-0 and Campbell and JMM are tied at 1-1-0

If I complete the match-ups, IMO PAC will come out 5-0-0, Campbell at 4-1-0 and JMM at 3-2-0 ...

So I have my no. 1 LW = PAC
.

lol and a completely impartial and unbiased view it is too

Indeed since if you just stop at the completed match-ups and won't proceed with the projected future match-ups, PAC is already leading the pack...
.

[ICB]

To add more confusion to the no. 1 lightweight chaos, try to predict the winner of these match ups... For those fights that already happened, try to stick to the most recent official results... Enjoy and have fun ...

PAC vs David Diaz - PAC TKO9
PAC vs Campbell
PAC vs JMM - PAC SD12
PAC vs. Juan Diaz
PAC vs. Casamayor

Campbell vs David Diaz
Campbell vs PAC
Campbell vs JMM
Campbell vs. Juan Diaz - Campbell SD12
Campbell vs. Casamayor - Casamayor UD10

JMM vs David Diaz
JMM vs Campbell
JMM vs PAC - PAC SD12
JMM vs. Juan Diaz
JMM vs. Casamayor - JMM TKO11

Who do you think will come out the big winner in these match-ups?

So far PAC is 2-0-0 and Campbell and JMM are tied at 1-1-0

If I complete the match-ups, IMO PAC will come out 5-0-0, Campbell at 4-1-0 and JMM at 3-2-0 ...

So I have my no. 1 LW = PAC
.

lol and a completely impartial and unbiased view it is too

Indeed since if you just stop at the completed match-ups and won't proceed with the projected future match-ups, PAC is already leading the pack...
.

1. Juan Manuel Marquez
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Nate Campbell

[Galaxy]

I think the fairest case is to make the title of Ring Champion vacant like it is for the heavyweights.

Let's face, the Ring doesn't regard Wlad as the Ring champ yet still deciding to leave the title vacant.

I can't see how anyone could possibly argue that Marquez, Campbell or Manny have a better claim to the lightweight title than Wlad has to the heavyweight title, Marquez beating a washed up, inactive champ who clearly and undisputedly lost his title over a year ago to anyone with eyes just doesn't cut it as being Championship worthy imo.

The three of them HAVE to duke it out, period, that's the only way to get a champ. Until then the division is in a three way fracture.

Marquez beat the linear champ something Wlad has never done! When Vitali retired the championship became vacant. Since Wlad became ranked #1 he has never fought the #2 guy which would fill the vacancy. Wlad is definitely the #1 heavy but he ain't the champion!!! Marquez is!

Look at the history of the sport no champion has derserved every victory they recieved but you have to follow the offical decision no matter how much we disagree with it or we run the risk of becoming as incompetent as the alphabet idiots!

Like the ring says "Championships should be won & lost in the ring!" not just awarded because we think someone is better! Thats why they fight the fights.

The best fighter in the division is not always the champion or else the title would never change hands!

Marquez is definitely the champion at 135!!!

I agree completely with what your saying Galaxy and have already acknowledged that Marquez as champ is the 'technically correct' decision as regards to the Ring rankings.

But we have moved on from that and are trying to discuss how 'in reality according to actual performance, achievments, merit,' etc the rankings should be ordered.

For me there is no question that Pacquiao right now should be number 1 as he is the p4p number 1 fighter in the sport and beat Marquez in the past year.

Campbell beat undoubtedly the best lightweight in the division in Juan Diaz, an undefeated fighter who was on the verge of unifying all the belts, so he is at number 2.

Marquez has made a great debut at lightweight in KO'ing Casamayor, but he lost to Pacquiao last time out and by rights Casa shouldn't even have been champ after losing almost every round on everybody's scorecards against Santa Cruz and also almost getting beat up by the mediocre Katsidis who Juan Diaz dominated.

So Marquez for me is at number 3.

Now I repeat, these are not the Ring rankings but what I believe are the most accurate rankings for the current state of the lightweight division.

I absolutely agree that the Ring magazine will almost certainly put Marquez at number 1 as they follow the lineage of titles closely. For them this is the correct decision.

but the fact remains that in a practical sense Marquez's win over an aged and clearly past it Casa isn't enough on its own to lift him above Campbells dominating performance over the 3 times unbeaten champ Juan Diaz.

He also lost to Manny last time out and that coupled with the fact that Manny is universally considered the p4p best fighter in the world means he ranks below them both.

NOT the Ring rankings, but the most accurate rankings.

Hope that clears it up

I agree Bilbo that Casa did not deserve the W over Santa Cruz but bad decisions are nothing new to the game. So unfortunately we have to live with it. I can name dozens of fights where the champion got the nod when he didn't deserve it... Ali had a few himself, but the fact is he remained champ!

So the question for me is how do you rate someone higher than the champ? In the world I live in with reality you can't. Sure someone might be better but until they prove it by beating the champ they're only the #1 contender!

Now Pacquiao is definitely #1 P4P & arguably the best fighter in the division & Campbell put in a great performance over Diaz & also has a case as the best fighter in the division. But they are not the champion, theres a difference!

Look at Sonny Liston or Marvin Hagler they were considered the best fighters in the division but until they beat the champ they were only the #1 contender.

Thats the way it is! You have to beat the man to be the man!

[XaduBoxer]

Marquez beat the linear champ something Wlad has never done! When Vitali retired the championship became vacant. Since Wlad became ranked #1 he has never fought the #2 guy which would fill the vacancy. Wlad is definitely the #1 heavy but he ain't the champion!!! Marquez is!

Look at the history of the sport no champion has derserved every victory they recieved but you have to follow the offical decision no matter how much we disagree with it or we run the risk of becoming as incompetent as the alphabet idiots!

Like the ring says "Championships should be won & lost in the ring!" not just awarded because we think someone is better! Thats why they fight the fights.

The best fighter in the division is not always the champion or else the title would never change hands!

Marquez is definitely the champion at 135!!!

I agree completely with what your saying Galaxy and have already acknowledged that Marquez as champ is the 'technically correct' decision as regards to the Ring rankings.

But we have moved on from that and are trying to discuss how 'in reality according to actual performance, achievments, merit,' etc the rankings should be ordered.

For me there is no question that Pacquiao right now should be number 1 as he is the p4p number 1 fighter in the sport and beat Marquez in the past year.

Campbell beat undoubtedly the best lightweight in the division in Juan Diaz, an undefeated fighter who was on the verge of unifying all the belts, so he is at number 2.

Marquez has made a great debut at lightweight in KO'ing Casamayor, but he lost to Pacquiao last time out and by rights Casa shouldn't even have been champ after losing almost every round on everybody's scorecards against Santa Cruz and also almost getting beat up by the mediocre Katsidis who Juan Diaz dominated.

So Marquez for me is at number 3.

Now I repeat, these are not the Ring rankings but what I believe are the most accurate rankings for the current state of the lightweight division.

I absolutely agree that the Ring magazine will almost certainly put Marquez at number 1 as they follow the lineage of titles closely. For them this is the correct decision.

but the fact remains that in a practical sense Marquez's win over an aged and clearly past it Casa isn't enough on its own to lift him above Campbells dominating performance over the 3 times unbeaten champ Juan Diaz.

He also lost to Manny last time out and that coupled with the fact that Manny is universally considered the p4p best fighter in the world means he ranks below them both.

NOT the Ring rankings, but the most accurate rankings.

Hope that clears it up

I agree Bilbo that Casa did not deserve the W over Santa Cruz but bad decisions are nothing new to the game. So unfortunately we have to live with it. I can name dozens of fights where the champion got the nod when he didn't deserve it... Ali had a few himself, but the fact is he remained champ!

So the question for me is how do you rate someone higher than the champ? In the world I live in with reality you can't. Sure someone might be better but until they prove it by beating the champ they're only the #1 contender!

Now Pacquiao is definitely #1 P4P & arguably the best fighter in the division & Campbell put in a great performance over Diaz & also has a case as the best fighter in the division. But they are not the champion, theres a difference!

Look at Sonny Liston or Marvin Hagler they were considered the best fighters in the division but until they beat the champ they were only the #1 contender.

Thats the way it is! You have to beat the man to be the man!

One question here, will DelaHoya become the no. 1 P4P if he beats PAC come Dec. 6 ?

I think the answer is NO but Oscar can make a spin on it by beating the man seating on the P4P throne...
.

[Galaxy]

I agree completely with what your saying Galaxy and have already acknowledged that Marquez as champ is the 'technically correct' decision as regards to the Ring rankings.

But we have moved on from that and are trying to discuss how 'in reality according to actual performance, achievments, merit,' etc the rankings should be ordered.

For me there is no question that Pacquiao right now should be number 1 as he is the p4p number 1 fighter in the sport and beat Marquez in the past year.

Campbell beat undoubtedly the best lightweight in the division in Juan Diaz, an undefeated fighter who was on the verge of unifying all the belts, so he is at number 2.

Marquez has made a great debut at lightweight in KO'ing Casamayor, but he lost to Pacquiao last time out and by rights Casa shouldn't even have been champ after losing almost every round on everybody's scorecards against Santa Cruz and also almost getting beat up by the mediocre Katsidis who Juan Diaz dominated.

So Marquez for me is at number 3.

Now I repeat, these are not the Ring rankings but what I believe are the most accurate rankings for the current state of the lightweight division.

I absolutely agree that the Ring magazine will almost certainly put Marquez at number 1 as they follow the lineage of titles closely. For them this is the correct decision.

but the fact remains that in a practical sense Marquez's win over an aged and clearly past it Casa isn't enough on its own to lift him above Campbells dominating performance over the 3 times unbeaten champ Juan Diaz.

He also lost to Manny last time out and that coupled with the fact that Manny is universally considered the p4p best fighter in the world means he ranks below them both.

NOT the Ring rankings, but the most accurate rankings.

Hope that clears it up

I agree Bilbo that Casa did not deserve the W over Santa Cruz but bad decisions are nothing new to the game. So unfortunately we have to live with it. I can name dozens of fights where the champion got the nod when he didn't deserve it... Ali had a few himself, but the fact is he remained champ!

So the question for me is how do you rate someone higher than the champ? In the world I live in with reality you can't. Sure someone might be better but until they prove it by beating the champ they're only the #1 contender!

Now Pacquiao is definitely #1 P4P & arguably the best fighter in the division & Campbell put in a great performance over Diaz & also has a case as the best fighter in the division. But they are not the champion, theres a difference!

Look at Sonny Liston or Marvin Hagler they were considered the best fighters in the division but until they beat the champ they were only the #1 contender.

Thats the way it is! You have to beat the man to be the man!

One question here, will DelaHoya become the no. 1 P4P if he beats PAC come Dec. 6 ?

I think the answer is NO but Oscar can make a spin on it by beating the man seating on the P4P throne...
.

The answer is no but I have no idea what this has to do with a the lightweight championship. P4P is purely mythical rankings & is based on a whole career of achievement at different weights & against different opponents.

When Douglas beat Tyson I can't name one person who rated Buster as #1 P4P but he was still the world heavyweight champion!

[XaduBoxer]

I agree Bilbo that Casa did not deserve the W over Santa Cruz but bad decisions are nothing new to the game. So unfortunately we have to live with it. I can name dozens of fights where the champion got the nod when he didn't deserve it... Ali had a few himself, but the fact is he remained champ!

So the question for me is how do you rate someone higher than the champ? In the world I live in with reality you can't. Sure someone might be better but until they prove it by beating the champ they're only the #1 contender!

Now Pacquiao is definitely #1 P4P & arguably the best fighter in the division & Campbell put in a great performance over Diaz & also has a case as the best fighter in the division. But they are not the champion, theres a difference!

Look at Sonny Liston or Marvin Hagler they were considered the best fighters in the division but until they beat the champ they were only the #1 contender.

Thats the way it is! You have to beat the man to be the man!

One question here, will DelaHoya become the no. 1 P4P if he beats PAC come Dec. 6 ?

I think the answer is NO but Oscar can make a spin on it by beating the man seating on the P4P throne...
.

The answer is no but I have no idea what this has to do with a the lightweight championship. P4P is purely mythical rankings & is based on a whole career of achievement at different weights & against different opponents.

When Douglas beat Tyson I can't name one person who rated Buster as #1 P4P but he was still the world heavyweight champion!

It has nothing to do with the LW championship... but I'm guessing Hoya might use the phrase "I'm now the man because I beat the man"...

[Kev]

Marquez beat the linear champ something Wlad has never done! When Vitali retired the championship became vacant. Since Wlad became ranked #1 he has never fought the #2 guy which would fill the vacancy. Wlad is definitely the #1 heavy but he ain't the champion!!! Marquez is!

Look at the history of the sport no champion has derserved every victory they recieved but you have to follow the offical decision no matter how much we disagree with it or we run the risk of becoming as incompetent as the alphabet idiots!

Like the ring says "Championships should be won & lost in the ring!" not just awarded because we think someone is better! Thats why they fight the fights.

The best fighter in the division is not always the champion or else the title would never change hands!

Marquez is definitely the champion at 135!!!

I agree completely with what your saying Galaxy and have already acknowledged that Marquez as champ is the 'technically correct' decision as regards to the Ring rankings.

But we have moved on from that and are trying to discuss how 'in reality according to actual performance, achievments, merit,' etc the rankings should be ordered.

For me there is no question that Pacquiao right now should be number 1 as he is the p4p number 1 fighter in the sport and beat Marquez in the past year.

Campbell beat undoubtedly the best lightweight in the division in Juan Diaz, an undefeated fighter who was on the verge of unifying all the belts, so he is at number 2.

Marquez has made a great debut at lightweight in KO'ing Casamayor, but he lost to Pacquiao last time out and by rights Casa shouldn't even have been champ after losing almost every round on everybody's scorecards against Santa Cruz and also almost getting beat up by the mediocre Katsidis who Juan Diaz dominated.

So Marquez for me is at number 3.

Now I repeat, these are not the Ring rankings but what I believe are the most accurate rankings for the current state of the lightweight division.

I absolutely agree that the Ring magazine will almost certainly put Marquez at number 1 as they follow the lineage of titles closely. For them this is the correct decision.

but the fact remains that in a practical sense Marquez's win over an aged and clearly past it Casa isn't enough on its own to lift him above Campbells dominating performance over the 3 times unbeaten champ Juan Diaz.

He also lost to Manny last time out and that coupled with the fact that Manny is universally considered the p4p best fighter in the world means he ranks below them both.

NOT the Ring rankings, but the most accurate rankings.

Hope that clears it up

I agree Bilbo that Casa did not deserve the W over Santa Cruz but bad decisions are nothing new to the game. So unfortunately we have to live with it. I can name dozens of fights where the champion got the nod when he didn't deserve it... Ali had a few himself, but the fact is he remained champ!

So the question for me is how do you rate someone higher than the champ? In the world I live in with reality you can't. Sure someone might be better but until they prove it by beating the champ they're only the #1 contender!

Now Pacquiao is definitely #1 P4P & arguably the best fighter in the division & Campbell put in a great performance over Diaz & also has a case as the best fighter in the division. But they are not the champion, theres a difference!

Look at Sonny Liston or Marvin Hagler they were considered the best fighters in the division but until they beat the champ they were only the #1 contender.

Thats the way it is! You have to beat the man to be the man!

That right there is my argument Galaxy Pacquio DID beat the man only 6 months ago

[Galaxy]

One question here, will DelaHoya become the no. 1 P4P if he beats PAC come Dec. 6 ?

I think the answer is NO but Oscar can make a spin on it by beating the man seating on the P4P throne...
.

The answer is no but I have no idea what this has to do with a the lightweight championship. P4P is purely mythical rankings & is based on a whole career of achievement at different weights & against different opponents.

When Douglas beat Tyson I can't name one person who rated Buster as #1 P4P but he was still the world heavyweight champion!

It has nothing to do with the LW championship... but I'm guessing Hoya might use the phrase "I'm now the man because I beat the man"...

Sorry I thought this thread was about the lightweights!

DLH could say that & I'm sure his fans will run with it, but most knowledgeable fans know that the majority of the time a good big man will defeat a good little man. DLH has huge advantages coming into this fight & I think he would be very foolish to make those claims if victorious!

[Galaxy]

I agree completely with what your saying Galaxy and have already acknowledged that Marquez as champ is the 'technically correct' decision as regards to the Ring rankings.

But we have moved on from that and are trying to discuss how 'in reality according to actual performance, achievments, merit,' etc the rankings should be ordered.

For me there is no question that Pacquiao right now should be number 1 as he is the p4p number 1 fighter in the sport and beat Marquez in the past year.

Campbell beat undoubtedly the best lightweight in the division in Juan Diaz, an undefeated fighter who was on the verge of unifying all the belts, so he is at number 2.

Marquez has made a great debut at lightweight in KO'ing Casamayor, but he lost to Pacquiao last time out and by rights Casa shouldn't even have been champ after losing almost every round on everybody's scorecards against Santa Cruz and also almost getting beat up by the mediocre Katsidis who Juan Diaz dominated.

So Marquez for me is at number 3.

Now I repeat, these are not the Ring rankings but what I believe are the most accurate rankings for the current state of the lightweight division.

I absolutely agree that the Ring magazine will almost certainly put Marquez at number 1 as they follow the lineage of titles closely. For them this is the correct decision.

but the fact remains that in a practical sense Marquez's win over an aged and clearly past it Casa isn't enough on its own to lift him above Campbells dominating performance over the 3 times unbeaten champ Juan Diaz.

He also lost to Manny last time out and that coupled with the fact that Manny is universally considered the p4p best fighter in the world means he ranks below them both.

NOT the Ring rankings, but the most accurate rankings.

Hope that clears it up

I agree Bilbo that Casa did not deserve the W over Santa Cruz but bad decisions are nothing new to the game. So unfortunately we have to live with it. I can name dozens of fights where the champion got the nod when he didn't deserve it... Ali had a few himself, but the fact is he remained champ!

So the question for me is how do you rate someone higher than the champ? In the world I live in with reality you can't. Sure someone might be better but until they prove it by beating the champ they're only the #1 contender!

Now Pacquiao is definitely #1 P4P & arguably the best fighter in the division & Campbell put in a great performance over Diaz & also has a case as the best fighter in the division. But they are not the champion, theres a difference!

Look at Sonny Liston or Marvin Hagler they were considered the best fighters in the division but until they beat the champ they were only the #1 contender.

Thats the way it is! You have to beat the man to be the man!

That right there is my argument Galaxy Pacquio DID beat the man only 6 months ago

That's right but at 130 & for the vacant Ring championship because they were rated at #1 & #2.

So how exactly does that make Pacquiao the champion at 135?

I'm not arguing that Pacquiao isn't arguably the better fighter but he ain't the champion! You can't rank #1 contender over the champion its just not logical!

I don't know if you follow rugby but over here in NZ its our national sport. Now South Africa are the world champions but the All Blacks are the best team in the world & have been considered the best for over a decade. But unfortunately no matter how much I dislike the fact the AB's have not been champs since '86!

[Kev]

I agree Bilbo that Casa did not deserve the W over Santa Cruz but bad decisions are nothing new to the game. So unfortunately we have to live with it. I can name dozens of fights where the champion got the nod when he didn't deserve it... Ali had a few himself, but the fact is he remained champ!

So the question for me is how do you rate someone higher than the champ? In the world I live in with reality you can't. Sure someone might be better but until they prove it by beating the champ they're only the #1 contender!

Now Pacquiao is definitely #1 P4P & arguably the best fighter in the division & Campbell put in a great performance over Diaz & also has a case as the best fighter in the division. But they are not the champion, theres a difference!

Look at Sonny Liston or Marvin Hagler they were considered the best fighters in the division but until they beat the champ they were only the #1 contender.

Thats the way it is! You have to beat the man to be the man!

That right there is my argument Galaxy Pacquio DID beat the man only 6 months ago

That's right but at 130 & for the vacant Ring championship because they were rated at #1 & #2.

So how exactly does that make Pacquiao the champion at 135?

I'm not arguing that Pacquiao isn't arguably the better fighter but he ain't the champion! You can't rank #1 contender over the champion its just not logical!

I don't know if you follow rugby but over here in NZ its our national sport. Now South Africa are the world champions but the All Blacks are the best team in the world & have been considered the best for over a decade. But unfortunately no matter how much I dislike the fact the AB's have not been champs since '86!

Your argument falls short though here anyway Galaxy because the Ring belt isn't a real title either!

The Ring title is the equivilent of the All Blacks being considered the best team in the world, it's just a subjective ranking system it's not a real belt.

Katsidis said it best last year when he said he wanted Juan Diaz because he was the lightweight champ. When the interviewer said that Casamayor was the Ring champ Kats replied, 'yes but that's just a magazine'

In reality, and I keep going on about this, Marquez is merely the interim WBO champ whilst Paquaio holds the far more prestigious WBC belt.

Marquez may be the linear champ but in reality he doesn't even hold a real world title at 135.

So your comparison to the All Blacks actually works in reverse!

Casamayor was considered the liner champ, and Marquez bet him, but no title belt was on the line so in reality Marquez isn't even a world champ whereas Manny is the WBC lightweight champ.

[antimoron]

I voted no, but I understand the reasoning. Based on the results of their fights I think Pac should be #1. I know they were close fights, but decisions mean something. BTW, I don't won't to hijack this thread, but I didn't see their second fight as controversial as some writers (Dan Rafael) seem to suggest. It was a split decision and the judges cards were not out of whack. Anyone agree or disagree?

Agree there mate.. there's no robbery in the pac-jmm2.. it's either way.. people seem to forget that its a very very close fight that the only deciding factor is the one that made the difference which is the knockdown.. you can't argue about punchstat coz its not like there are 100-300 punches diffrence.. if you saw the Calderon-Cazares2 fight you know what im saying about punchstat.. Calderon only landed somewhere around 90 jab & power punches while Cazares landed about around 110 jab & power punches and the outcome is Calderon the winner. Hope you guys get my point.

[Tysonbruno]

I voted yes as joel was classed as the linear champ after beating Corrales.