want to test a little theory

[hitmanhatton]

I don't know, I think you can just about make any fighter look overrated.

There's a line between nit-picking and just being plain ridiculous though.

How about one trying to downgrade Ezzard Charles and his achievements? That's a pretty tough one.

i think the weak era arguement would get used here to be honest

i dont know too much about ezzard charles but i dont think he beat anyone that notable did he ?

Ezzard Charles beat Archie Moore 5 times, aswell as the great Charles Burley, Jersey Joe Walcott etc.

oops as i said though my knowledge of him is very limited

[Thread Stealer]

i think the weak era arguement would get used here to be honest

i dont know too much about ezzard charles but i dont think he beat anyone that notable did he ?

Ezzard Charles beat Archie Moore 5 times, aswell as the great Charles Burley, Jersey Joe Walcott etc.

oops as i said though my knowledge of him is very limited

Here's some info for you on Ezzard Charles. His record against Hall of Famers:

24 fights against 9 Hall of Famers for a record of 18-6 with 2 KOs.

• 1-0 (0) against Teddy Yarosz
• 2-0 (0) against Charley Burley
• 5-0 (0) against Joey Maxim
• 1-0 (0) against Joe Louis
• 0-1 (0) against Harold Johnson
• 2-2 (0) against Jersey Joe Walcott
• 4-1 (1) against Jimmy Bivins
• 0-2 (0) against Rocky Marciano
• 3-0 (1) against Archie Moore

1941:

• 1-0 against Teddy Yarosz

1942:

• 2-0 against Charley Burley
• 2-0 against Joey Maxim

1943:

• 0-1 against Jimmy Bivins

1946:

• 1-0 against Jimmy Bivins
• 1-0 against Archie Moore

1947:

• 1-0 (1) against Jimmy Bivins
• 1-0 against Archie Moore

1948:

• 1-0 (1) against Archie Moore
• 1-0 against Jimmy Bivins

1949:

• 1-0 against Joey Maxim
• 1-0 against Jersey Joe Walcott

1950:

• 1-0 against Joe Louis

1951:

• 2-0 against Joey Maxim
• 1-1 against Jersey Joe Walcott

1952:

• 0-1 against Jersey Joe Walcott
• 1-0 against Jimmy Bivins

1953:

• 0-1 against Harold Johnson

1954:

• 0-2 against Rocky Marciano

[hitmanhatton]

i checked him out on boxrec and didnt notice hardly none of those names , man im gettin blind

[RozzySean]

Bob Foster - you can use the weak era argument on him, for sure. He lost every time he stepped up against a good heavyweight. Dick Tiger was past his prime. Neither Mike Quarryt, Pierre Fourie, or Chris Finnigan were all that great and they were his best wins. Padded his KO record with bums.

[RozzySean]

Here we go. I'll trash my favorite fighter. Duran dominated lightweight in weak era, and he padded his record with bums. Other than the first Ray Leonard fight, he came up short in every other fight against top competition - Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler. Iran Barkley was overrated. The only good fighter he ever beat was Hearns, so that win doesn't mean much. He fought way past his prime and ruined his legacy losing to guys like Paz and Lawlor.

This is a fun game!

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

Three words ROY JONES JR.

[Thread Stealer]

Three words ROY JONES JR.

Too easy to nitpick and criticize his resume.

Fighters of the past are harder because they were fighting so frequently and often against quality opposition.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

Three words ROY JONES JR.

Too easy to nitpick and criticize his resume.

Fighters of the past are harder because they were fighting so frequently and often against quality opposition.

Mmmm, good point.

[Mr140]

Alright my favorite fighter is and always will be Sugar Ray Leonard. Alright here are the highlights to his career he was a champion WW, LMW, MW, SMW and LHW and also his best wins as Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler he was the top dog out of all of them only one beat them all. He was also in one of the toughest eras of boxing so go ahead and pick away.

[ICB]

Here we go. I'll trash my favorite fighter. Duran dominated lightweight in weak era, and he padded his record with bums. Other than the first Ray Leonard fight, he came up short in every other fight against top competition - Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler. Iran Barkley was overrated. The only good fighter he ever beat was Hearns, so that win doesn't mean much. He fought way past his prime and ruined his legacy losing to guys like Paz and Lawlor.

This is a fun game!

I wouldn't say Iran Barkley was overrated, he done very well against Sumbu Kalambay and Michael Nunn who were both in there prime. Those fights alone showed he could compete at world class.

[Mr140]

I never saw that show Thread Stealer good nit pick by the way very good have some rep on me and by the way who said he ducked him anyhow.

[Mr140]

Also to come back form your nit pick all i got to say. Is that Hagler at prime was at higher weight then Leonard was so they would not of fought regardless pluse Leonards eye was jacked. Hagler may have been prime but neither was Leonard and he was 13 pounds above his prime weight. If he would of boxed Duran first time he would of won easily i feel. Also Leonard was still pretty young and green i think against the champ and he was countering the counter puncher and he knocked him down with a jab.

[ICB]

I never saw that show Thread Stealer good nit pick by the way very good have some rep on me and by the way who said he ducked him anyhow.

It all started with Leonard moving up a weightclass in the Amateurs to avoid Pryor, Leonard also got whooped few times in sparring by Pryor, and Pryor also called him out at a press conference but Leonard didn't want to know, hence why some people believe Leonard avoided Pryor.

[Thread Stealer]

I never saw that show Thread Stealer good nit pick by the way very good have some rep on me and by the way who said he ducked him anyhow.

HBO's Legendary Nights showed Pryor challege Leonard at a press conference, and Leonard never fought Pryor.

Butch Lewis was talking about how Leonard supposedly moved up a weight division in the amateurs to avoid Pryor and was handled by him in sparring.

Who doesn't challenge the big names? When does a welterweight champ have an obligation to fight the junior welterweight champ? Leonard had bigger challenges against established fighters in his own division. Of course money played a role in them being bigger names than Pryor, but they were established fighters in Leonard's division, unlike Pryor.

If Pryor did some work at welterweight, then the claim would be much stronger. But Pryor was best suited for divisions below 147.

[RozzySean]

Here we go. I'll trash my favorite fighter. Duran dominated lightweight in weak era, and he padded his record with bums. Other than the first Ray Leonard fight, he came up short in every other fight against top competition - Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler. Iran Barkley was overrated. The only good fighter he ever beat was Hearns, so that win doesn't mean much. He fought way past his prime and ruined his legacy losing to guys like Paz and Lawlor.

This is a fun game!

I wouldn't say Iran Barkley was overrated, he done very well against Sumbu Kalambay and Michael Nunn who were both in there prime. Those fights alone showed he could compete at world class.

I was trashing Barkley to diminish Duran's win over him. Keeping with that theme, he was competitive with Kalambay and Nunn, but he lost. He got KTFO by Benn. James Toney made him look like an amateur.

OK, in real life, I don't think Barkley was overrated and in real life, Duran is one of my favorite fighters and I think that weak LW division or not, you could put Duran in with any LW he would have a good chance to come out on top, Mosley and Benny Leonard included.

The point of the thread is to take a guy who is recognized universally as an ATG and make a case against him. Old Duran's win over Barkley was one of his most compelling performances. Barkley gave a great fight to a Kalembay during Kalembay's peak. But to play devil's advocate, you could say that every time Iran Barkely stepped up, other than Hearns, he fell short, including to a way past it Duran.