I know You Enjoy Ripping On Andrew

[amat]

It's not just his record that sucks though. I think he's the worst boxer I've ever seen in a pro ring. Maybe mullet boxer is worse, but he's about on that same level. And I guess Zelenoff is worse Hard to believe but it's true.

Maybe you might improve him and I know you are in good standing on this board, but your not actually in his corner are you? You can't correct him in real time, I've played plenty of sports and had plenty of coaches and that just seems so crucial especially when you have a guy like Andrew who doesn't even know the fundamentals. You're on his phone, so it does kind of throw some salt on what you are saying here imo but it's your perogative and I guess I hope he wins but at the same time I think he should just end the sharade. And it doesn't exactly endear himself when he says he is saying he's going to beat our asses on here when we all know he wouldn't even given the chance.

[brucelee]

I admire you more TM for defending Andrew. I am one of the few here who knows Andrew is serious about his boxing. He may not be talented (obviously, because of his lack of training), I know he is passionate about his boxing.

[Trainer Monkey]

I admire you more TM for defending Andrew. I am one of the few here who knows Andrew is serious about his boxing. He may not be talented (obviously, because of his lack of training), I know he is passionate about his boxing.

One thing I really like
When I first took him on,he was almost chipper on the phone. Now,he sounds like death warmed over every time I talk to him from training.
Its the way it should be
But this misery pays dividends in the ring

[ICB]

I admire you more TM for defending Andrew. I am one of the few here who knows Andrew is serious about his boxing. He may not be talented (obviously, because of his lack of training), I know he is passionate about his boxing.

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

[brucelee]

I admire you more TM for defending Andrew. I am one of the few here who knows Andrew is serious about his boxing. He may not be talented (obviously, because of his lack of training), I know he is passionate about his boxing.

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

[Trainer Monkey]

Sometimes being Andrew's trainer can be hilarious
He was in a bar a few nights ago,guy shoved him 3 times,and he dropped him. No problem plenty of witnesses and on tape
Except
He probably shouldnt have said,"You going to share those donoughts?" to the cop running holding
I cant help but laugh my ass off,my wifes pissed at me for finding it funny,but I cant help it

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

I admire you more TM for defending Andrew. I am one of the few here who knows Andrew is serious about his boxing. He may not be talented (obviously, because of his lack of training), I know he is passionate about his boxing.

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

[Dark Lord Al]

Kid Thunder is a good guy , but even with improvment , he isnt a boxer with any talent at all and as ICB says you cannot teach this.
If he scores a few wins it will be because you have managed to find other so called boxers who as terrible also. Face the facts here , he is never going to be a boxer of any note what so ever. If you believe training a guy from 1000 miles away is going to do this for him , then you sir are taking some serious drugs there.
Let me also give you some advice , if you used your head , wait till Kid wins a few fights then come on here telling us what a difference you have made , instead of BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH , fact is you havent done anything yet but talk. Remember he lost his last fight to a guy having his first fight , he also ran out of gas after 30 seconds , ive seen 20 stone guy brawling in a pub with better athletic ability.

and for the record i listened to the Kid Thunder radio show and his talent lays there , he was actually pretty good. He just isnt a boxer.

[Trainer Monkey]

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

Ill go middle ground here
Some guys you cant improve,some you can,and everyone has to start somewhere.
I did martial arts,and live action medievel combat.
I certainly want nearly as good when I started as when I retired from both,I worked very hard,and had good training.
My first belt test,I flubbed a low kick block and ended up dislocating 3 fingers
My last tournament I took Silver and Gold medals
When I first started doing the SCA,I got torched often,I spent every day working the pell and studying tape
My last 2 years I never finished lower then the Semi-finals
Theres some guys you cant do anything with,when I looked at Zelenoff vs Hartley,I bluntly said Id never train Zelenoff,but Id be willing to help Andrew out. Zelenoffs basic hand speed is crap,his targeting is allways off,and he has all the mental toughness of a Strawberry Shortcake doll.
Do I think Andrew is ever going to be more then a club fighter,not really,I got him way too late,but at least Im trying to make him in to a good club fighter.
Not everybody can be Marvin Hagler

[RozzySean]

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

But 67-3 is a pretty damn good record for somebody that never was a real fighter and didn't have the goods Maybe you didn't have the goods to make it as a top fighter, but it seems like good training and desire took you a lot further than most people get.

I guess I comes down to what kind of future in boxing do you mean? You are good case that training, desire, and heart can take you to a certain point. It might not take you to a title belt or a top 10 ranking, but I'd be pretty proud of myself if I had your record.

If you were a 67-3 amateur, you are probably a heck of a lot better than most of the guys SOB is putting out on his Arkansas cards. Even without the best instincts, you training took you to certain point before you hit a wall, no?

One thing is for sure, though, talent or no talent, it takes a certain amount of stones and desire to get into a ring, get hit hard, keep going, and get in the ring again. Fine, I started too late to really compete, but I've sparred with guys who have way more natural talent than me but they freeze up once you touch them a little. I'm old, slow, and limited, but I've held my own against younger, quicker guys who get tentative once they get hit. That's something you can't teach, either. I'm sure you saw the same thing in your amateur career, and from the way way your describe yourself, you probably beat a lot of guys who had more talent by having bigger balls.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

But 67-3 is a pretty damn good record for somebody that never was a real fighter and didn't have the goods Maybe you didn't have the goods to make it as a top fighter, but it seems like good training and desire took you a lot further than most people get.

I guess I comes down to what kind of future in boxing do you mean? You are good case that training, desire, and heart can take you to a certain point. It might not take you to a title belt or a top 10 ranking, but I'd be pretty proud of myself if I had your record.

If you were a 67-3 amateur, you are probably a heck of a lot better than most of the guys SOB is putting out on his Arkansas cards. Even without the best instincts, you training took you to certain point before you hit a wall, no?

One thing is for sure, though, talent or no talent, it takes a certain amount of stones and desire to get into a ring, get hit hard, keep going, and get in the ring again. Fine, I started too late to really compete, but I've sparred with guys who have way more natural talent than me but they freeze up once you touch them a little. I'm old, slow, and limited, but I've held my own against younger, quicker guys who get tentative once they get hit. That's something you can't teach, either. I'm sure you saw the same thing in your amateur career, and from the way way your describe yourself, you probably beat a lot of guys who had more talent by having bigger balls.

I was OK and my record was against lesser opponants. When I stepped up and ended up in the Jr. Olympics I was TKOd... all my losses were TKO. I was unable to continue... always got up... but couldn't continue. As hard as I worked my defense never progressed... I just didn't have the vision. That was my point.

I'm a bit hard on myself sometimes but that's not a bad thing.

[Trainer Monkey]

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

But 67-3 is a pretty damn good record for somebody that never was a real fighter and didn't have the goods Maybe you didn't have the goods to make it as a top fighter, but it seems like good training and desire took you a lot further than most people get.

I guess I comes down to what kind of future in boxing do you mean? You are good case that training, desire, and heart can take you to a certain point. It might not take you to a title belt or a top 10 ranking, but I'd be pretty proud of myself if I had your record.

If you were a 67-3 amateur, you are probably a heck of a lot better than most of the guys SOB is putting out on his Arkansas cards. Even without the best instincts, you training took you to certain point before you hit a wall, no?

One thing is for sure, though, talent or no talent, it takes a certain amount of stones and desire to get into a ring, get hit hard, keep going, and get in the ring again. Fine, I started too late to really compete, but I've sparred with guys who have way more natural talent than me but they freeze up once you touch them a little. I'm old, slow, and limited, but I've held my own against younger, quicker guys who get tentative once they get hit. That's something you can't teach, either. I'm sure you saw the same thing in your amateur career, and from the way way your describe yourself, you probably beat a lot of guys who had more talent by having bigger balls.

I wish Andrew would develop a little more tentative,one of his biggest problems is he allways wants to come in rather then helping the other guy make his own mistakes

[ICB]

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

Nice post totally agree POB.