I know You Enjoy Ripping On Andrew

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

I admire you more TM for defending Andrew. I am one of the few here who knows Andrew is serious about his boxing. He may not be talented (obviously, because of his lack of training), I know he is passionate about his boxing.

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

[Dark Lord Al]

Kid Thunder is a good guy , but even with improvment , he isnt a boxer with any talent at all and as ICB says you cannot teach this.
If he scores a few wins it will be because you have managed to find other so called boxers who as terrible also. Face the facts here , he is never going to be a boxer of any note what so ever. If you believe training a guy from 1000 miles away is going to do this for him , then you sir are taking some serious drugs there.
Let me also give you some advice , if you used your head , wait till Kid wins a few fights then come on here telling us what a difference you have made , instead of BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH , fact is you havent done anything yet but talk. Remember he lost his last fight to a guy having his first fight , he also ran out of gas after 30 seconds , ive seen 20 stone guy brawling in a pub with better athletic ability.

and for the record i listened to the Kid Thunder radio show and his talent lays there , he was actually pretty good. He just isnt a boxer.

[Trainer Monkey]

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

Ill go middle ground here
Some guys you cant improve,some you can,and everyone has to start somewhere.
I did martial arts,and live action medievel combat.
I certainly want nearly as good when I started as when I retired from both,I worked very hard,and had good training.
My first belt test,I flubbed a low kick block and ended up dislocating 3 fingers
My last tournament I took Silver and Gold medals
When I first started doing the SCA,I got torched often,I spent every day working the pell and studying tape
My last 2 years I never finished lower then the Semi-finals
Theres some guys you cant do anything with,when I looked at Zelenoff vs Hartley,I bluntly said Id never train Zelenoff,but Id be willing to help Andrew out. Zelenoffs basic hand speed is crap,his targeting is allways off,and he has all the mental toughness of a Strawberry Shortcake doll.
Do I think Andrew is ever going to be more then a club fighter,not really,I got him way too late,but at least Im trying to make him in to a good club fighter.
Not everybody can be Marvin Hagler

[RozzySean]

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

But 67-3 is a pretty damn good record for somebody that never was a real fighter and didn't have the goods Maybe you didn't have the goods to make it as a top fighter, but it seems like good training and desire took you a lot further than most people get.

I guess I comes down to what kind of future in boxing do you mean? You are good case that training, desire, and heart can take you to a certain point. It might not take you to a title belt or a top 10 ranking, but I'd be pretty proud of myself if I had your record.

If you were a 67-3 amateur, you are probably a heck of a lot better than most of the guys SOB is putting out on his Arkansas cards. Even without the best instincts, you training took you to certain point before you hit a wall, no?

One thing is for sure, though, talent or no talent, it takes a certain amount of stones and desire to get into a ring, get hit hard, keep going, and get in the ring again. Fine, I started too late to really compete, but I've sparred with guys who have way more natural talent than me but they freeze up once you touch them a little. I'm old, slow, and limited, but I've held my own against younger, quicker guys who get tentative once they get hit. That's something you can't teach, either. I'm sure you saw the same thing in your amateur career, and from the way way your describe yourself, you probably beat a lot of guys who had more talent by having bigger balls.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

But 67-3 is a pretty damn good record for somebody that never was a real fighter and didn't have the goods Maybe you didn't have the goods to make it as a top fighter, but it seems like good training and desire took you a lot further than most people get.

I guess I comes down to what kind of future in boxing do you mean? You are good case that training, desire, and heart can take you to a certain point. It might not take you to a title belt or a top 10 ranking, but I'd be pretty proud of myself if I had your record.

If you were a 67-3 amateur, you are probably a heck of a lot better than most of the guys SOB is putting out on his Arkansas cards. Even without the best instincts, you training took you to certain point before you hit a wall, no?

One thing is for sure, though, talent or no talent, it takes a certain amount of stones and desire to get into a ring, get hit hard, keep going, and get in the ring again. Fine, I started too late to really compete, but I've sparred with guys who have way more natural talent than me but they freeze up once you touch them a little. I'm old, slow, and limited, but I've held my own against younger, quicker guys who get tentative once they get hit. That's something you can't teach, either. I'm sure you saw the same thing in your amateur career, and from the way way your describe yourself, you probably beat a lot of guys who had more talent by having bigger balls.

I was OK and my record was against lesser opponants. When I stepped up and ended up in the Jr. Olympics I was TKOd... all my losses were TKO. I was unable to continue... always got up... but couldn't continue. As hard as I worked my defense never progressed... I just didn't have the vision. That was my point.

I'm a bit hard on myself sometimes but that's not a bad thing.

[ICB]

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

But 67-3 is a pretty damn good record for somebody that never was a real fighter and didn't have the goods Maybe you didn't have the goods to make it as a top fighter, but it seems like good training and desire took you a lot further than most people get.

I guess I comes down to what kind of future in boxing do you mean? You are good case that training, desire, and heart can take you to a certain point. It might not take you to a title belt or a top 10 ranking, but I'd be pretty proud of myself if I had your record.

If you were a 67-3 amateur, you are probably a heck of a lot better than most of the guys SOB is putting out on his Arkansas cards. Even without the best instincts, you training took you to certain point before you hit a wall, no?

One thing is for sure, though, talent or no talent, it takes a certain amount of stones and desire to get into a ring, get hit hard, keep going, and get in the ring again. Fine, I started too late to really compete, but I've sparred with guys who have way more natural talent than me but they freeze up once you touch them a little. I'm old, slow, and limited, but I've held my own against younger, quicker guys who get tentative once they get hit. That's something you can't teach, either. I'm sure you saw the same thing in your amateur career, and from the way way your describe yourself, you probably beat a lot of guys who had more talent by having bigger balls.

I was OK and my record was against lesser opponants. When I stepped up and ended up in the Jr. Olympics I was TKOd... all my losses were TKO. I was unable to continue... always got up... but couldn't continue. As hard as I worked my defense never progressed... I just didn't have the vision. That was my point.

I'm a bit hard on myself sometimes but that's not a bad thing.

Don't be modest POB you were the man end of

[RozzySean]

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

But 67-3 is a pretty damn good record for somebody that never was a real fighter and didn't have the goods Maybe you didn't have the goods to make it as a top fighter, but it seems like good training and desire took you a lot further than most people get.

I guess I comes down to what kind of future in boxing do you mean? You are good case that training, desire, and heart can take you to a certain point. It might not take you to a title belt or a top 10 ranking, but I'd be pretty proud of myself if I had your record.

If you were a 67-3 amateur, you are probably a heck of a lot better than most of the guys SOB is putting out on his Arkansas cards. Even without the best instincts, you training took you to certain point before you hit a wall, no?

One thing is for sure, though, talent or no talent, it takes a certain amount of stones and desire to get into a ring, get hit hard, keep going, and get in the ring again. Fine, I started too late to really compete, but I've sparred with guys who have way more natural talent than me but they freeze up once you touch them a little. I'm old, slow, and limited, but I've held my own against younger, quicker guys who get tentative once they get hit. That's something you can't teach, either. I'm sure you saw the same thing in your amateur career, and from the way way your describe yourself, you probably beat a lot of guys who had more talent by having bigger balls.

I was OK and my record was against lesser opponants. When I stepped up and ended up in the Jr. Olympics I was TKOd... all my losses were TKO. I was unable to continue... always got up... but couldn't continue. As hard as I worked my defense never progressed... I just didn't have the vision. That was my point.

I'm a bit hard on myself sometimes but that's not a bad thing.

No, it's not. I'm sure you would own me, though

[Trainer Monkey]

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

But 67-3 is a pretty damn good record for somebody that never was a real fighter and didn't have the goods Maybe you didn't have the goods to make it as a top fighter, but it seems like good training and desire took you a lot further than most people get.

I guess I comes down to what kind of future in boxing do you mean? You are good case that training, desire, and heart can take you to a certain point. It might not take you to a title belt or a top 10 ranking, but I'd be pretty proud of myself if I had your record.

If you were a 67-3 amateur, you are probably a heck of a lot better than most of the guys SOB is putting out on his Arkansas cards. Even without the best instincts, you training took you to certain point before you hit a wall, no?

One thing is for sure, though, talent or no talent, it takes a certain amount of stones and desire to get into a ring, get hit hard, keep going, and get in the ring again. Fine, I started too late to really compete, but I've sparred with guys who have way more natural talent than me but they freeze up once you touch them a little. I'm old, slow, and limited, but I've held my own against younger, quicker guys who get tentative once they get hit. That's something you can't teach, either. I'm sure you saw the same thing in your amateur career, and from the way way your describe yourself, you probably beat a lot of guys who had more talent by having bigger balls.

I was OK and my record was against lesser opponants. When I stepped up and ended up in the Jr. Olympics I was TKOd... all my losses were TKO. I was unable to continue... always got up... but couldn't continue. As hard as I worked my defense never progressed... I just didn't have the vision. That was my point.

I'm a bit hard on myself sometimes but that's not a bad thing.

Naww,if you arent hard on yourself,youll never have the desire needed for improvement.
Im brutal on myself,Ill be the first to tell you,I slip for crap,I know how to,but once the bell rings I forget to do it often enough,relying on blocking and reach instead.
And handing me a jump rope is on par with an industry practical joke

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

But 67-3 is a pretty damn good record for somebody that never was a real fighter and didn't have the goods Maybe you didn't have the goods to make it as a top fighter, but it seems like good training and desire took you a lot further than most people get.

I guess I comes down to what kind of future in boxing do you mean? You are good case that training, desire, and heart can take you to a certain point. It might not take you to a title belt or a top 10 ranking, but I'd be pretty proud of myself if I had your record.

If you were a 67-3 amateur, you are probably a heck of a lot better than most of the guys SOB is putting out on his Arkansas cards. Even without the best instincts, you training took you to certain point before you hit a wall, no?

One thing is for sure, though, talent or no talent, it takes a certain amount of stones and desire to get into a ring, get hit hard, keep going, and get in the ring again. Fine, I started too late to really compete, but I've sparred with guys who have way more natural talent than me but they freeze up once you touch them a little. I'm old, slow, and limited, but I've held my own against younger, quicker guys who get tentative once they get hit. That's something you can't teach, either. I'm sure you saw the same thing in your amateur career, and from the way way your describe yourself, you probably beat a lot of guys who had more talent by having bigger balls.

I was OK and my record was against lesser opponants. When I stepped up and ended up in the Jr. Olympics I was TKOd... all my losses were TKO. I was unable to continue... always got up... but couldn't continue. As hard as I worked my defense never progressed... I just didn't have the vision. That was my point.

I'm a bit hard on myself sometimes but that's not a bad thing.

Naww,if you arent hard on yourself,youll never have the desire needed for improvement.
Im brutal on myself,Ill be the first to tell you,I slip for crap,I know how to,but once the bell rings I forget to do it often enough,relying on blocking and reach instead.
And handing me a jump rope is on par with an industry practical joke

What happened to me was I just didn't mind getting hit. It didn't hurt or jar me so I'd walk through two to land one... Thing is is that it only takes one to ring your bell. I loved to brawl and always took pride in the amount of guys I stopped with headgear on...


Namatter how may times we worked on it I couldn't put defense and offense together to be able to counter and slip... Like I said, the vision just wasn't there. I had the training and determination but some guys just aren't built to do some things.

Some things can be learned and some can't... For me anyway, that was one of them, sadly.

[Trainer Monkey]

I was OK and my record was against lesser opponants. When I stepped up and ended up in the Jr. Olympics I was TKOd... all my losses were TKO. I was unable to continue... always got up... but couldn't continue. As hard as I worked my defense never progressed... I just didn't have the vision. That was my point.

I'm a bit hard on myself sometimes but that's not a bad thing.

Naww,if you arent hard on yourself,youll never have the desire needed for improvement.
Im brutal on myself,Ill be the first to tell you,I slip for crap,I know how to,but once the bell rings I forget to do it often enough,relying on blocking and reach instead.
And handing me a jump rope is on par with an industry practical joke

What happened to me was I just didn't mind getting hit. It didn't hurt or jar me so I'd walk through two to land one... Thing is is that it only takes one to ring your bell. I loved to brawl and always took pride in the amount of guys I stopped with headgear on...


Namatter how may times we worked on it I couldn't put defense and offense together to be able to counter and slip... Like I said, the vision just wasn't there. I had the training and determination but some guys just aren't built to do some things.

Some things can be learned and some can't... For me anyway, that was one of them, sadly.

My problem has allways been fighting middle ground,because I dont slip enough,In tight,hey I grew up around Philly your in my wheel well,Ive got long arms so outside is fine and dandy,but middle of the road where you need to slip more,if Im going to take a hard shot,thats where it will be.
I allways thought that with the slipping,alot of my problem was I was never comfortable throwing an extended uppercut,inside I love the punch,but in the middle range where you have to extend it a bit,I was never comfortable,Id rather throw a lunging cross,or a straight right instead

[Trainer Monkey]

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

But 67-3 is a pretty damn good record for somebody that never was a real fighter and didn't have the goods Maybe you didn't have the goods to make it as a top fighter, but it seems like good training and desire took you a lot further than most people get.

I guess I comes down to what kind of future in boxing do you mean? You are good case that training, desire, and heart can take you to a certain point. It might not take you to a title belt or a top 10 ranking, but I'd be pretty proud of myself if I had your record.

If you were a 67-3 amateur, you are probably a heck of a lot better than most of the guys SOB is putting out on his Arkansas cards. Even without the best instincts, you training took you to certain point before you hit a wall, no?

One thing is for sure, though, talent or no talent, it takes a certain amount of stones and desire to get into a ring, get hit hard, keep going, and get in the ring again. Fine, I started too late to really compete, but I've sparred with guys who have way more natural talent than me but they freeze up once you touch them a little. I'm old, slow, and limited, but I've held my own against younger, quicker guys who get tentative once they get hit. That's something you can't teach, either. I'm sure you saw the same thing in your amateur career, and from the way way your describe yourself, you probably beat a lot of guys who had more talent by having bigger balls.

I wish Andrew would develop a little more tentative,one of his biggest problems is he allways wants to come in rather then helping the other guy make his own mistakes

[ICB]

Not to sound nasty here Bruce but lack of training my ass, if you have a future in boxing you already have the talent and the natural instincts of a fighter. Trainers can help you with fundamentals and etc, but the natural instincts of a fighter aswell as talent is of course natural, and no trainer can teach you that. Especially someone like Andrew Hartley IMO.

I somewhat disagree on you with the instinct thing. Instincts can be learned as they are also lost. Passion is what makes a good fighter. You train a child at an early age to be a boxer and most probably he will acquire that so called fighter instinct when he grows up. I know you know what I mean ICB. Talents if not developed is as good as having no talent. We might be looking at Andrew as having no talent because his talent was not developed early. We can not surely judge right now if he has talent or not.

I will give my judgment if he is talented or not after TM train him properly.

This is all civilian speak... You'e never been in with real fighters, have you Bruce.

I was 67-3 as an amateur but was never a real fighter. I wanted to be... I trained to be... But at the end of the day I didn't have the goods. I grew up in a boxing family and was nurtured from an early age... I had heart.. I NEVER stayed down even when I should have and was trained by Ronny Cole who has trained some decent fighters. I didn't have the defensive skills I hoped to have... INSTINCTS CAN NOT BE LEARNED!

I amassed to many concussions to continue...

You're talking out your ass a bit

Nice post totally agree POB.