Taylor-Lacy: All or nothing !!!

[killersheep]

JT i think you need to read my post again i never said Mendoza can't punch. I just thought Killersheep was seriously overrating Mendoza's punching power saying "he hits incredibly hard" when thats not the case.

The point i was making about Mendoza never stopping an opponent when he stepped up, except Rubin Williams. Because that shows he hasn't got world class punching power. And considering how weak the Middleweight/Super Middleweight division has been in recent years i think thats saying something.

Can he hit ? sure he can do damage but he certainly isn't nowhere near on the top punches in boxing today, i would find it hard to even have him in top 40 punchers in current day boxing.

Jeff Lacy was wobbling alot in that fight and he was hurt against Vitali Tsypko, who is no puncher. Thats why im worried about Jeff Lacy's punch resistance.

Tell you what you what man, make a list of 5 super middleweights that have the one punch KO power of Mendoza and I'll concede the point to you. One punch KO power mind you, not accumulative like Kessler or Andrade

Mendoza hasn't got 1 punch KO power i don't why you believe that. But i think Mikkel Kessler, Carl Froch, Edison Miranda, Alejandro Berrio, Librado Andrade, Lucian Bute, Fulgencio Zuniga, all have strong cases for being bigger punchers than Mendoza. And heres a 40 fighters who i consider harder punchers than Mendoza.

Kelly Pavlik
Juan Manuel Marquez
Manny Pacquiao
Roman Gonzalez
David Haye
Wladimir Klitschko
Samuel Peter
Mikke Kessler
Kelly Pavlik
Antonio Tarver
Arthur Abraham
Andre Berto
Miguel Cotto
Paul Williams
Ricardo Torres
Edwin Valero
Juan Manuel Lopez
Rafael Marquez
Carl Froch
Daniel Ponce De Leon
Edison Miranda
Jhonny Gonzalez
Vic Darchinyan
Enzo Maccarinelli
Ulises Solis
Librado Andrade
Breidis Prescott
Hugo Fidel Cazares
Kermit Cintron
Joel Casamayor
Shane Mosley
Vitali Klitschko
Alexander Povetkin
O'Neil Bell
Herbie Hide
Lucian Bute
Fulgencio Zuniga
Joel Julio
Yuriokris Gamboa
James Kirkland
Victor Ortiz

Theres about 40 fighters who all hit harder than Mendoza, few only about 6 fighters on that list you could argue against.

I believe that he has one punch ko power, because he has knocked many opponents out with one punch. There are some genuine power punchers in your list, no doubt, but many are accumalative punchers. Just admit Mendoza has real power, it's ok.

[ICB]

Tell you what you what man, make a list of 5 super middleweights that have the one punch KO power of Mendoza and I'll concede the point to you. One punch KO power mind you, not accumulative like Kessler or Andrade

Mendoza hasn't got 1 punch KO power i don't why you believe that. But i think Mikkel Kessler, Carl Froch, Edison Miranda, Alejandro Berrio, Librado Andrade, Lucian Bute, Fulgencio Zuniga, all have strong cases for being bigger punchers than Mendoza. And heres a 40 fighters who i consider harder punchers than Mendoza.

Kelly Pavlik
Juan Manuel Marquez
Manny Pacquiao
Roman Gonzalez
David Haye
Wladimir Klitschko
Samuel Peter
Mikke Kessler
Kelly Pavlik
Antonio Tarver
Arthur Abraham
Andre Berto
Miguel Cotto
Paul Williams
Ricardo Torres
Edwin Valero
Juan Manuel Lopez
Rafael Marquez
Carl Froch
Daniel Ponce De Leon
Edison Miranda
Jhonny Gonzalez
Vic Darchinyan
Enzo Maccarinelli
Ulises Solis
Librado Andrade
Breidis Prescott
Hugo Fidel Cazares
Kermit Cintron
Joel Casamayor
Shane Mosley
Vitali Klitschko
Alexander Povetkin
O'Neil Bell
Herbie Hide
Lucian Bute
Fulgencio Zuniga
Joel Julio
Yuriokris Gamboa
James Kirkland
Victor Ortiz

Theres about 40 fighters who all hit harder than Mendoza, few only about 6 fighters on that list you could argue against.

I believe that he has one punch ko power, because he has knocked many opponents out with one punch. There are some genuine power punchers in your list, no doubt, but many are accumalative punchers. Just admit Mendoza has real power, it's ok.

I never said he didn't had power, why do people keep saying i said he doesn't have power ? i said he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a good opponent. Nor is he anywhere near a title challenger.

[killersheep]

Mendoza hasn't got 1 punch KO power i don't why you believe that. But i think Mikkel Kessler, Carl Froch, Edison Miranda, Alejandro Berrio, Librado Andrade, Lucian Bute, Fulgencio Zuniga, all have strong cases for being bigger punchers than Mendoza. And heres a 40 fighters who i consider harder punchers than Mendoza.

Kelly Pavlik
Juan Manuel Marquez
Manny Pacquiao
Roman Gonzalez
David Haye
Wladimir Klitschko
Samuel Peter
Mikke Kessler
Kelly Pavlik
Antonio Tarver
Arthur Abraham
Andre Berto
Miguel Cotto
Paul Williams
Ricardo Torres
Edwin Valero
Juan Manuel Lopez
Rafael Marquez
Carl Froch
Daniel Ponce De Leon
Edison Miranda
Jhonny Gonzalez
Vic Darchinyan
Enzo Maccarinelli
Ulises Solis
Librado Andrade
Breidis Prescott
Hugo Fidel Cazares
Kermit Cintron
Joel Casamayor
Shane Mosley
Vitali Klitschko
Alexander Povetkin
O'Neil Bell
Herbie Hide
Lucian Bute
Fulgencio Zuniga
Joel Julio
Yuriokris Gamboa
James Kirkland
Victor Ortiz

Theres about 40 fighters who all hit harder than Mendoza, few only about 6 fighters on that list you could argue against.

I believe that he has one punch ko power, because he has knocked many opponents out with one punch. There are some genuine power punchers in your list, no doubt, but many are accumalative punchers. Just admit Mendoza has real power, it's ok.

I never said he didn't had power, why do people keep saying i said he doesn't have power ? i said he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a good opponent. Nor is he anywhere near a title challenger.

Nobody here is saying he has skill, but everyone here besides you, sees that he has "World Class Power". I say his power is world class let's look at your list then and pull out the fighters at 168 so we are not comparing apples to oranges.

Mikkel Kessler - accumulative power
Carl Froch - valid
Edison Miranda - valid
Librado Andrade - accumulative power
Lucian Bute - accumulative power
Zuniga - I'd say equal to

Well if that's what we're comparing to I don't see how you can say he doesn't have "World Class Power"

[ICB]

I believe that he has one punch ko power, because he has knocked many opponents out with one punch. There are some genuine power punchers in your list, no doubt, but many are accumalative punchers. Just admit Mendoza has real power, it's ok.

I never said he didn't had power, why do people keep saying i said he doesn't have power ? i said he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a good opponent. Nor is he anywhere near a title challenger.

Nobody here is saying he has skill, but everyone here besides you, sees that he has "World Class Power". I say his power is world class let's look at your list then and pull out the fighters at 168 so we are not comparing apples to oranges.

Mikkel Kessler - accumulative power
Carl Froch - valid
Edison Miranda - valid
Librado Andrade - accumulative power
Lucian Bute - accumulative power
Zuniga - I'd say equal to

Well if that's what we're comparing to I don't see how you can say he doesn't have "World Class Power"

Lucian Bute stopped Kabary Salem who had never been stopped, and had gone 12 rounds with Joe Calzaghe and dropped him.

Zungia dropped Kelly Pavlik and also stopped 26-0 Victor Oganov.

Mikkel Kessler also has 1 punch KO's under his belt which are against better quality opposition.

Librado Andrade is debatable i'll give you that.

You keep saying Mendoza has 1 punch KO power but how many of these KO's have you actually seen ? because i've only seen his fights with Dawson, Williams, Lacy, his other KO's were against bums.

[ICB]

Looks like im a bit outnumbered here against JT, Bilbo, Spicoli, Sheep

[killersheep]

I never said he didn't had power, why do people keep saying i said he doesn't have power ? i said he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a good opponent. Nor is he anywhere near a title challenger.

Nobody here is saying he has skill, but everyone here besides you, sees that he has "World Class Power". I say his power is world class let's look at your list then and pull out the fighters at 168 so we are not comparing apples to oranges.

Mikkel Kessler - accumulative power
Carl Froch - valid
Edison Miranda - valid
Librado Andrade - accumulative power
Lucian Bute - accumulative power
Zuniga - I'd say equal to

Well if that's what we're comparing to I don't see how you can say he doesn't have "World Class Power"

Lucian Bute stopped Kabary Salem who had never been stopped, and had gone 12 rounds with Joe Calzaghe and dropped him.

Zungia dropped Kelly Pavlik and also stopped 26-0 Victor Oganov.

Mikkel Kessler also has 1 punch KO's under his belt which are against better quality opposition.

Librado Andrade is debatable i'll give you that.

You keep saying Mendoza has 1 punch KO power but how many of these KO's have you actually seen ? because i've only seen his fights with Dawson, Williams, Lacy, his other KO's were against bums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdyLpR50c80

How can you deny this power?

[ICB]

Nobody here is saying he has skill, but everyone here besides you, sees that he has "World Class Power". I say his power is world class let's look at your list then and pull out the fighters at 168 so we are not comparing apples to oranges.

Mikkel Kessler - accumulative power
Carl Froch - valid
Edison Miranda - valid
Librado Andrade - accumulative power
Lucian Bute - accumulative power
Zuniga - I'd say equal to

Well if that's what we're comparing to I don't see how you can say he doesn't have "World Class Power"

Lucian Bute stopped Kabary Salem who had never been stopped, and had gone 12 rounds with Joe Calzaghe and dropped him.

Zungia dropped Kelly Pavlik and also stopped 26-0 Victor Oganov.

Mikkel Kessler also has 1 punch KO's under his belt which are against better quality opposition.

Librado Andrade is debatable i'll give you that.

You keep saying Mendoza has 1 punch KO power but how many of these KO's have you actually seen ? because i've only seen his fights with Dawson, Williams, Lacy, his other KO's were against bums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdyLpR50c80

How can you deny this power?

Never did i said he is a good puncher not world class puncher, and i'll keep saying it no matter what, i think we have a stalemate here bro.

[ICB]

Lucian Bute stopped Kabary Salem who had never been stopped, and had gone 12 rounds with Joe Calzaghe and dropped him.

Zungia dropped Kelly Pavlik and also stopped 26-0 Victor Oganov.

Mikkel Kessler also has 1 punch KO's under his belt which are against better quality opposition.

Librado Andrade is debatable i'll give you that.

You keep saying Mendoza has 1 punch KO power but how many of these KO's have you actually seen ? because i've only seen his fights with Dawson, Williams, Lacy, his other KO's were against bums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdyLpR50c80

How can you deny this power?

Never did i said he is a good puncher not world class puncher, and i'll keep saying it no matter what, i think we have a stalemate here bro.

Anyways im off for tonight good debate folks, we'll debate this more tomorrow if you can handle it

[killersheep]

Lucian Bute stopped Kabary Salem who had never been stopped, and had gone 12 rounds with Joe Calzaghe and dropped him.

Zungia dropped Kelly Pavlik and also stopped 26-0 Victor Oganov.

Mikkel Kessler also has 1 punch KO's under his belt which are against better quality opposition.

Librado Andrade is debatable i'll give you that.

You keep saying Mendoza has 1 punch KO power but how many of these KO's have you actually seen ? because i've only seen his fights with Dawson, Williams, Lacy, his other KO's were against bums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdyLpR50c80

How can you deny this power?

Never did i said he is a good puncher not world class puncher, and i'll keep saying it no matter what, i think we have a stalemate here bro.

I don't get what he'd have to show to prove he has "world class power" then, did you need to see Williams head explode or something?

[killersheep]

I never said he didn't had power, why do people keep saying i said he doesn't have power ? i said he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a good opponent. Nor is he anywhere near a title challenger.

I would like to note you have moved from saying he doesn't have "world class power" to the argument he isn't a "world class puncher". Now it may seem like I'm splitting hairs here, but that seems to be the basis of your argument, George Foreman is another example of someone who had "world class power", but not a "world class puncher". I say this because his technique was horrible, but you could not deny his power. You are calling me out for not seeing enough of Mendoza's fights, I have seen more of his fights than you however on telemundo and espn2, I haven't been able to find clips of them to show you though. Fights to see his power are Williams (which you have seen), Vegara and Hammond.

[ICB]

I never said he didn't had power, why do people keep saying i said he doesn't have power ? i said he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a good opponent. Nor is he anywhere near a title challenger.

I would like to note you have moved from saying he doesn't have "world class power" to the argument he isn't a "world class puncher". Now it may seem like I'm splitting hairs here, but that seems to be the basis of your argument, George Foreman is another example of someone who had "world class power", but not a "world class puncher". I say this because his technique was horrible, but you could not deny his power. You are calling me out for not seeing enough of Mendoza's fights, I have seen more of his fights than you however on telemundo and espn2, I haven't been able to find clips of them to show you though. Fights to see his power are Williams (which you have seen), Vegara and Hammond.

I've said from the start he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a world class puncher his technique is horrible. And just because George Foreman could punch while not being technically sound. Doesn't mean Mendoza is in that league i think thats very flawed logic.

Secondly i said i've doubt you have seen many Mendoza fights, because many members who do follow boxing very closely. Hadn't even heard of him or had only seen 1 or 2 of his fights, thats why i said it not because im trying to insult you, but if you have then great. But from the fights i've seen i think his punches are very sloppy, he doesn't plant his feet, he doesn't use his hips which is important. And the only real punch he seems to be effective with is the uppercut.

I think calling him a world class puncher is way off base IMO, but like i said just because i think that way doesn't mean im right. I have my opinion like you have yours. As i said yesterday this is a stalemate, you believe one thing i believe another, i don't think we are gonna change eachother's minds. The only thing i'll agree on is that he has good power but not at world class level.

If he had world class power like you say then he would of been one of the top Super Middleweights. Because the division has been weak for sometime, and if he did have that kind of power im sure he would be a top 10 Super Middleweight by now, look at Edwin Valero, Daniel Ponce De Leon, for examples. There not technically sound but both have won world titles, you know why ? because they have World class power, if Mendoza was in that league regarding power, even though he has technical flaws. I would bet all my life savings he would be well up there regarding the Super Middleweight rankings.

[killersheep]

I never said he didn't had power, why do people keep saying i said he doesn't have power ? i said he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a good opponent. Nor is he anywhere near a title challenger.

I would like to note you have moved from saying he doesn't have "world class power" to the argument he isn't a "world class puncher". Now it may seem like I'm splitting hairs here, but that seems to be the basis of your argument, George Foreman is another example of someone who had "world class power", but not a "world class puncher". I say this because his technique was horrible, but you could not deny his power. You are calling me out for not seeing enough of Mendoza's fights, I have seen more of his fights than you however on telemundo and espn2, I haven't been able to find clips of them to show you though. Fights to see his power are Williams (which you have seen), Vegara and Hammond.

I've said from the start he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a world class puncher his technique is horrible. And just because George Foreman could punch while not being technically sound. Doesn't mean Mendoza is in that league i think thats very flawed logic.

Secondly i said i've doubt you have seen many Mendoza fights, because many members who do follow boxing very closely. Hadn't even heard of him or had only seen 1 or 2 of his fights, thats why i said it not because im trying to insult you, but if you have then great. But from the fights i've seen i think his punches are very sloppy, he doesn't plant his feet, he doesn't use his hips which is important. And the only real punch he seems to be effective with is the uppercut.

I think calling him a world class puncher is way off base IMO, but like i said just because i think that way doesn't mean im right. I have my opinion like you have yours. As i said yesterday this is a stalemate, you believe one thing i believe another, i don't think we are gonna change eachother's minds. The only thing i'll agree on is that he has good power but not at world class level.

If he had world class power like you say then he would of been one of the top Super Middleweights. Because the division has been weak for sometime, and if he did have that kind of power im sure he would be a top 10 Super Middleweight by now, look at Edwin Valero, Daniel Ponce De Leon, for examples. There not technically sound but both have won world titles, you know why ? because they have World class power, if Mendoza was in that league regarding power, even though he has technical flaws. I would bet all my life savings he would be well up there regarding the Super Middleweight rankings.

This statement right here is where you show a more limited knowledge of Mendoza then the people you are debating, his overhand right is by far his money punch. You mention Edwin Valero and Ponce de Leon, they have won titles because they got title shots against much lower competition than Mendoza. Valero won against Mosquera, and underrated fighter to be sure, but nowhere near the skill level of Dawson, I had to look up who DPDL won his title against, that was Gerson Guerrero can't say that I'd rank him as world class or well known, and certainly not at the level of Dawson. If Mendoza fought someone that happened to have a title that was at the skill level of Guerrero his power would give him more than a good chance.

[ICB]

I would like to note you have moved from saying he doesn't have "world class power" to the argument he isn't a "world class puncher". Now it may seem like I'm splitting hairs here, but that seems to be the basis of your argument, George Foreman is another example of someone who had "world class power", but not a "world class puncher". I say this because his technique was horrible, but you could not deny his power. You are calling me out for not seeing enough of Mendoza's fights, I have seen more of his fights than you however on telemundo and espn2, I haven't been able to find clips of them to show you though. Fights to see his power are Williams (which you have seen), Vegara and Hammond.

I've said from the start he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a world class puncher his technique is horrible. And just because George Foreman could punch while not being technically sound. Doesn't mean Mendoza is in that league i think thats very flawed logic.

Secondly i said i've doubt you have seen many Mendoza fights, because many members who do follow boxing very closely. Hadn't even heard of him or had only seen 1 or 2 of his fights, thats why i said it not because im trying to insult you, but if you have then great. But from the fights i've seen i think his punches are very sloppy, he doesn't plant his feet, he doesn't use his hips which is important. And the only real punch he seems to be effective with is the uppercut.

I think calling him a world class puncher is way off base IMO, but like i said just because i think that way doesn't mean im right. I have my opinion like you have yours. As i said yesterday this is a stalemate, you believe one thing i believe another, i don't think we are gonna change eachother's minds. The only thing i'll agree on is that he has good power but not at world class level.

If he had world class power like you say then he would of been one of the top Super Middleweights. Because the division has been weak for sometime, and if he did have that kind of power im sure he would be a top 10 Super Middleweight by now, look at Edwin Valero, Daniel Ponce De Leon, for examples. There not technically sound but both have won world titles, you know why ? because they have World class power, if Mendoza was in that league regarding power, even though he has technical flaws. I would bet all my life savings he would be well up there regarding the Super Middleweight rankings.

This statement right here is where you show a more limited knowledge of Mendoza then the people you are debating, his overhand right is by far his money punch. You mention Edwin Valero and Ponce de Leon, they have won titles because they got title shots against much lower competition than Mendoza. Valero won against Mosquera, and underrated fighter to be sure, but nowhere near the skill level of Dawson, I had to look up who DPDL won his title against, that was Gerson Guerrero can't say that I'd rank him as world class or well known, and certainly not at the level of Dawson. If Mendoza fought someone that happened to have a title that was at the skill level of Guerrero his power would give him more than a good chance.

Sheep i have seen 3 of Mendoza's fights i think thats enough to judge him, he often slaps with the right hand because he doesn't turn his hips into the shot. His uppercut is one of his best punches, and its the punch that was most effective against Jeff Lacy.

The point i was making about Daniel Ponce De Leon is that forgetting who he won the title off, he has stopped top 5 world title challengers i believe ? which means he has the power at world class, despite his lack of technique. I don't think your find anyone on this board questioning Daniel Ponce De Leon's power.

Vicente Mosquera won the Super Featherweight title, and had only been knocked down once in his career, i would say he was a top quality fighter and what Edwin Valero done to him was very impressive, and why are you bringing up Mendoza vs Dawson ? Mendoza lost to Dawson so i don't see your point. Infact the only claim to fame Mendoza has which i actually see at the time, was his KO victory over the decent Rubin Williams, any other time he has stepped up he has lost.

So if he can't make his power apparent against top 10 Super Middleweights, that means he hasn't got world class power. I know your comeback and say Jeff Lacy is a top 10 Super Middleweight but come on, he is a shot fighter. His punch resistance looked shaky against Tsypko who is only a decent puncher.

[killersheep]

I've said from the start he doesn't have world class power, nor is he a world class puncher his technique is horrible. And just because George Foreman could punch while not being technically sound. Doesn't mean Mendoza is in that league i think thats very flawed logic.

Secondly i said i've doubt you have seen many Mendoza fights, because many members who do follow boxing very closely. Hadn't even heard of him or had only seen 1 or 2 of his fights, thats why i said it not because im trying to insult you, but if you have then great. But from the fights i've seen i think his punches are very sloppy, he doesn't plant his feet, he doesn't use his hips which is important. And the only real punch he seems to be effective with is the uppercut.

I think calling him a world class puncher is way off base IMO, but like i said just because i think that way doesn't mean im right. I have my opinion like you have yours. As i said yesterday this is a stalemate, you believe one thing i believe another, i don't think we are gonna change eachother's minds. The only thing i'll agree on is that he has good power but not at world class level.

If he had world class power like you say then he would of been one of the top Super Middleweights. Because the division has been weak for sometime, and if he did have that kind of power im sure he would be a top 10 Super Middleweight by now, look at Edwin Valero, Daniel Ponce De Leon, for examples. There not technically sound but both have won world titles, you know why ? because they have World class power, if Mendoza was in that league regarding power, even though he has technical flaws. I would bet all my life savings he would be well up there regarding the Super Middleweight rankings.

This statement right here is where you show a more limited knowledge of Mendoza then the people you are debating, his overhand right is by far his money punch. You mention Edwin Valero and Ponce de Leon, they have won titles because they got title shots against much lower competition than Mendoza. Valero won against Mosquera, and underrated fighter to be sure, but nowhere near the skill level of Dawson, I had to look up who DPDL won his title against, that was Gerson Guerrero can't say that I'd rank him as world class or well known, and certainly not at the level of Dawson. If Mendoza fought someone that happened to have a title that was at the skill level of Guerrero his power would give him more than a good chance.

Sheep i have seen 3 of Mendoza's fights i think thats enough to judge him, he often slaps with the right hand because he doesn't turn his hips into the shot. His uppercut is one of his best punches, and its the punch that was most effective against Jeff Lacy.

The point i was making about Daniel Ponce De Leon is that forgetting who he won the title off, he has stopped top 5 world title challengers i believe ? which means he has the power at world class, despite his lack of technique. I don't think your find anyone on this board questioning Daniel Ponce De Leon's power.

Vicente Mosquera won the Super Featherweight title, and had only been knocked down once in his career, i would say he was a top quality fighter and what Edwin Valero done to him was very impressive, and why are you bringing up Mendoza vs Dawson ? Mendoza lost to Dawson so i don't see your point. Infact the only claim to fame Mendoza has which i actually see at the time, was his KO victory over the decent Rubin Williams, any other time he has stepped up he has lost.

So if he can't make his power apparent against top 10 Super Middleweights, that means he hasn't got world class power. I know your comeback and say Jeff Lacy is a top 10 Super Middleweight but come on, he is a shot fighter. His punch resistance looked shaky against Tsypko who is only a decent puncher.

So all three times that Mendoza made Lacy lose his legs with overhand right they weren't effective punches? And I also don't understand why when you say you have seen 3 fights of Mendoza's it's enough to make a judgement, but when others have seen the same three fights, it's not enough for them to make judgement, you're reaching here. Just because he wasn't able to catch Dawson clean, doesn't mean the power isn't there.
And the relevance of him not making title defenses is because he had a more difficult time getting there. Tell you what man, obviously we are not going to change each other's minds here so why don't we take a poll........