What is with this site and Kelly Pavlik

[The Fightfan]

This is insane. Do you know why Pavlik might have trouble with the fighter's named by Taeth because they are light heavyweight's.Did we forget something Kelly is a middleweight he is fighting at 170 not 175 against Taylor it was 166. I believe Kelly will come in the same weight 166 for the Hopkins fight. Not only that but for a middleweight he is very wide you will see how much bigger Pavlik is than B-Hop. IMO also with all those names mentioned he could knock everyone one of them out. Johnson not indestructible can be beaten and easily outboxed. Calzaghe went down from a perfectly timed right hand not much pop behind it. Kessler could beat him but he has only 2 thing's in the bag that is a crisp jab and hard right hand not seasoned enough IMO. Last I am not sold on Dawson having a good jaw he has been down against Johnson not known for his power but workrate,and by Adamek in a fight he was winning convincingly and got caught by a decent shot.

[Taeth]

How the fuck can you say Glen Johnson isn't indestructible? He has taken punches from the heaviest punchers in the Light heavyweight division, and he has never gone down once. The only time he got stoped was in the middleweight fight against Hopkins, and I think you should watch that fight because maybe you don't remember the drumbing he took from Bernard who hit him with way more punches than PAvlik would.

Your an idiot for saying Kessler is a two trick pony, He has a great jab, he has a great cross, he biggest weapon is his left hook, and his right uppercut is deadly as well. Not to mention he is a terrific combination puncher, counter puncher, and general ring tactician, he is easily one of the top 10 p4p fighters, and he would destroy Pavlik.

Also did Calzaghe look wobbly at all after the shot he took from Hopkins? Did he get dropped by any of the huge right hands Kessler dropped on him? Pavlik doesn't one punch top end opponents, he isn't Thomas Hearns, and Calzaghe wouldn't let Pavlik physically bully him around. He didn't let a very strong Lacy, or a very strong Kessler bully him around either. Pavlik can't just walk through punches all night, he is more intelligent than that, and Calzaghe won't let Pavlik get off with his punches, it was Taylor's inactivity that allowed Pavlik to win that fight.

This answers two people. Chad Dawson could make 160 if he needed, he is very skiny, and wasn't always light heavyweight, also Pavlik is not a natural middleweight, why do you think he is a foot taller then half his opponents? Guys like him are the Paul Williams' of the middleweight division. Pavlik could easily be natural lightheavy weight, and we will see him up there before long. Whereas a guy like Hopkins fought at middleweight until he was 40. Pavlik will be the bigger man against Hopkins when they fight, and he is almost as big as Dawson naturally. I mean Taylor walks around bigger then most lightheavyweights and he looked smaller then Pavlik.

Also I never said Dawson was that great either, I don't think he would have beaten Glen Johnson five years ago, hell I think Glen had a draw with him, if Johnson didn't win that fight. I also think Tarver might have beaten Dawson 5 years ago. I think that Roy JOnes in his prime would have KO'ed current Dawson in about 3 rounds. I think Dawson has the potential to be very great.

What I ahve been saying is that Pavlik is a fine technical fighter in the style he fights, He does get hit, but so do most fighters coming forward, but he doesn't quite have the Ike Quartey, Winky WRight air tight defense. He throws all the punches well, he throws good combinations. But his flaws are his physical body, Sure he is very tall and strong, but he has ordinary speed, his chin is like Cotto's, its ok, but it isn't where it needs to be if he is going to get hit a lot in a fight by even a decent puncher. I also get the sense that if he got into a brutal fight his body wouldn't be able to take it just like Cotto and Thomas Hearns against Hagler, I see him fighting certain guys like Glen Johnson and them breaking him down. I am just saying don't overhype him because he beat Jermain Taylor, Bernard Hopkins deserved a win against Taylor, Winky WRight deserved a decision against Taylor, even arguably Cory Spinks deserved a decision against Taylor if you are going by effective punching and not who has more power, the middleweight? Or the featherfisted welterweight?

[intoccabile]

Pavlik does what he does very well. Beats guys up when they are infront of him, cornered, or on the ropes. The angles he throws punches from are limited though and so are the variety of punches he throws.

Movement is his kryptonite, I don't see him beating Calzaghe for that reason alone.
and to follow up on something a previous poster said - I think Spinks was robbed against JT.
I thought he made JT look like a complete idiot.

[kingfrnk]

How the fuck can you say Glen Johnson isn't indestructible? He has taken punches from the heaviest punchers in the Light heavyweight division, and he has never gone down once. The only time he got stoped was in the middleweight fight against Hopkins, and I think you should watch that fight because maybe you don't remember the drumbing he took from Bernard who hit him with way more punches than PAvlik would.

Your an idiot for saying Kessler is a two trick pony, He has a great jab, he has a great cross, he biggest weapon is his left hook, and his right uppercut is deadly as well. Not to mention he is a terrific combination puncher, counter puncher, and general ring tactician, he is easily one of the top 10 p4p fighters, and he would destroy Pavlik.

Also did Calzaghe look wobbly at all after the shot he took from Hopkins? Did he get dropped by any of the huge right hands Kessler dropped on him? Pavlik doesn't one punch top end opponents, he isn't Thomas Hearns, and Calzaghe wouldn't let Pavlik physically bully him around. He didn't let a very strong Lacy, or a very strong Kessler bully him around either. Pavlik can't just walk through punches all night, he is more intelligent than that, and Calzaghe won't let Pavlik get off with his punches, it was Taylor's inactivity that allowed Pavlik to win that fight.

This answers two people. Chad Dawson could make 160 if he needed, he is very skiny, and wasn't always light heavyweight, also Pavlik is not a natural middleweight, why do you think he is a foot taller then half his opponents? Guys like him are the Paul Williams' of the middleweight division. Pavlik could easily be natural lightheavy weight, and we will see him up there before long. Whereas a guy like Hopkins fought at middleweight until he was 40. Pavlik will be the bigger man against Hopkins when they fight, and he is almost as big as Dawson naturally. I mean Taylor walks around bigger then most lightheavyweights and he looked smaller then Pavlik.

Also I never said Dawson was that great either, I don't think he would have beaten Glen Johnson five years ago, hell I think Glen had a draw with him, if Johnson didn't win that fight. I also think Tarver might have beaten Dawson 5 years ago. I think that Roy JOnes in his prime would have KO'ed current Dawson in about 3 rounds. I think Dawson has the potential to be very great.

What I ahve been saying is that Pavlik is a fine technical fighter in the style he fights, He does get hit, but so do most fighters coming forward, but he doesn't quite have the Ike Quartey, Winky WRight air tight defense. He throws all the punches well, he throws good combinations. But his flaws are his physical body, Sure he is very tall and strong, but he has ordinary speed, his chin is like Cotto's, its ok, but it isn't where it needs to be if he is going to get hit a lot in a fight by even a decent puncher. I also get the sense that if he got into a brutal fight his body wouldn't be able to take it just like Cotto and Thomas Hearns against Hagler, I see him fighting certain guys like Glen Johnson and them breaking him down. I am just saying don't overhype him because he beat Jermain Taylor, Bernard Hopkins deserved a win against Taylor, Winky WRight deserved a decision against Taylor, even arguably Cory Spinks deserved a decision against Taylor if you are going by effective punching and not who has more power, the middleweight? Or the featherfisted welterweight?

nobody is indestructable anybody can be beat by certain fighters. and kelly doesnt have a chin like cotto. kelly has great recovery. cotto has been hurt by zab,torres,corley,mosley, and most recently kod by tony. and i dont recall pavlik being hurt by miranda who punches hard as hell.

[Taeth]

Pavlik will always be a very good fighter, but even looking back at the legendary Hagler, if he didn't have his chin he would have a been a very good fighter, but he would have been knocked out by the first right hand Hearns landed on him, and we wouldn't consider him half as good as we do now. Sure he had a solid defense, good power, accuracy, timing, etc, but that chin seperated him from all the other fighter with those other qualities. Hell it even seperates Margarito from far better technical fighters than him because he doens't have to worry about whats hitting him. What I am saying is that it will take a special fighter to beat Pavlik, but Dawson, Kessler are clearly special fighters or will be in Chad's case. I am not even comparing these two because I don't think Chad is better then Pavlik at this moment, but speed, like a good chin, overcomes many obstacles.

[DaxxKahn]

How the fuck can you say Glen Johnson isn't indestructible? He has taken punches from the heaviest punchers in the Light heavyweight division, and he has never gone down once. The only time he got stoped was in the middleweight fight against Hopkins, and I think you should watch that fight because maybe you don't remember the drumbing he took from Bernard who hit him with way more punches than PAvlik would.

Your an idiot for saying Kessler is a two trick pony, He has a great jab, he has a great cross, he biggest weapon is his left hook, and his right uppercut is deadly as well. Not to mention he is a terrific combination puncher, counter puncher, and general ring tactician, he is easily one of the top 10 p4p fighters, and he would destroy Pavlik.

Also did Calzaghe look wobbly at all after the shot he took from Hopkins? Did he get dropped by any of the huge right hands Kessler dropped on him? Pavlik doesn't one punch top end opponents, he isn't Thomas Hearns, and Calzaghe wouldn't let Pavlik physically bully him around. He didn't let a very strong Lacy, or a very strong Kessler bully him around either. Pavlik can't just walk through punches all night, he is more intelligent than that, and Calzaghe won't let Pavlik get off with his punches, it was Taylor's inactivity that allowed Pavlik to win that fight.

This answers two people. Chad Dawson could make 160 if he needed, he is very skiny, and wasn't always light heavyweight, also Pavlik is not a natural middleweight, why do you think he is a foot taller then half his opponents? Guys like him are the Paul Williams' of the middleweight division. Pavlik could easily be natural lightheavy weight, and we will see him up there before long. Whereas a guy like Hopkins fought at middleweight until he was 40. Pavlik will be the bigger man against Hopkins when they fight, and he is almost as big as Dawson naturally. I mean Taylor walks around bigger then most lightheavyweights and he looked smaller then Pavlik.

Also I never said Dawson was that great either, I don't think he would have beaten Glen Johnson five years ago, hell I think Glen had a draw with him, if Johnson didn't win that fight. I also think Tarver might have beaten Dawson 5 years ago. I think that Roy JOnes in his prime would have KO'ed current Dawson in about 3 rounds. I think Dawson has the potential to be very great.

What I ahve been saying is that Pavlik is a fine technical fighter in the style he fights, He does get hit, but so do most fighters coming forward, but he doesn't quite have the Ike Quartey, Winky WRight air tight defense. He throws all the punches well, he throws good combinations. But his flaws are his physical body, Sure he is very tall and strong, but he has ordinary speed, his chin is like Cotto's, its ok, but it isn't where it needs to be if he is going to get hit a lot in a fight by even a decent puncher. I also get the sense that if he got into a brutal fight his body wouldn't be able to take it just like Cotto and Thomas Hearns against Hagler, I see him fighting certain guys like Glen Johnson and them breaking him down. I am just saying don't overhype him because he beat Jermain Taylor, Bernard Hopkins deserved a win against Taylor, Winky WRight deserved a decision against Taylor, even arguably Cory Spinks deserved a decision against Taylor if you are going by effective punching and not who has more power, the middleweight? Or the featherfisted welterweight?

nobody is indestructable anybody can be beat by certain fighters. and kelly doesnt have a chin like cotto. kelly has great recovery. cotto has been hurt by zab,torres,corley,mosley, and most recently kod by tony. and i dont recall pavlik being hurt by miranda who punches hard as hell.

Comparing Cotto being KO'd by Tony and Pavlik not getting KO'd by Miranda makes a good arguement for nothing......Miranda did not land on Pavlik like Tony did on Cotto....Taylor put Kelly down for an 8 count and Taylor does not hit as hard as Miranda......

[kingfrnk]

Pavlik will always be a very good fighter, but even looking back at the legendary Hagler, if he didn't have his chin he would have a been a very good fighter, but he would have been knocked out by the first right hand Hearns landed on him, and we wouldn't consider him half as good as we do now. Sure he had a solid defense, good power, accuracy, timing, etc, but that chin seperated him from all the other fighter with those other qualities. Hell it even seperates Margarito from far better technical fighters than him because he doens't have to worry about whats hitting him. What I am saying is that it will take a special fighter to beat Pavlik, but Dawson, Kessler are clearly special fighters or will be in Chad's case. I am not even comparing these two because I don't think Chad is better then Pavlik at this moment, but speed, like a good chin, overcomes many obstacles.

kessler cant beat kelly at the moment. especially after the bhop fight kelly will have way more ring experience than kessler.

[Taeth]

How the fuck can you say Glen Johnson isn't indestructible? He has taken punches from the heaviest punchers in the Light heavyweight division, and he has never gone down once. The only time he got stoped was in the middleweight fight against Hopkins, and I think you should watch that fight because maybe you don't remember the drumbing he took from Bernard who hit him with way more punches than PAvlik would.

Your an idiot for saying Kessler is a two trick pony, He has a great jab, he has a great cross, he biggest weapon is his left hook, and his right uppercut is deadly as well. Not to mention he is a terrific combination puncher, counter puncher, and general ring tactician, he is easily one of the top 10 p4p fighters, and he would destroy Pavlik.

Also did Calzaghe look wobbly at all after the shot he took from Hopkins? Did he get dropped by any of the huge right hands Kessler dropped on him? Pavlik doesn't one punch top end opponents, he isn't Thomas Hearns, and Calzaghe wouldn't let Pavlik physically bully him around. He didn't let a very strong Lacy, or a very strong Kessler bully him around either. Pavlik can't just walk through punches all night, he is more intelligent than that, and Calzaghe won't let Pavlik get off with his punches, it was Taylor's inactivity that allowed Pavlik to win that fight.

This answers two people. Chad Dawson could make 160 if he needed, he is very skiny, and wasn't always light heavyweight, also Pavlik is not a natural middleweight, why do you think he is a foot taller then half his opponents? Guys like him are the Paul Williams' of the middleweight division. Pavlik could easily be natural lightheavy weight, and we will see him up there before long. Whereas a guy like Hopkins fought at middleweight until he was 40. Pavlik will be the bigger man against Hopkins when they fight, and he is almost as big as Dawson naturally. I mean Taylor walks around bigger then most lightheavyweights and he looked smaller then Pavlik.

Also I never said Dawson was that great either, I don't think he would have beaten Glen Johnson five years ago, hell I think Glen had a draw with him, if Johnson didn't win that fight. I also think Tarver might have beaten Dawson 5 years ago. I think that Roy JOnes in his prime would have KO'ed current Dawson in about 3 rounds. I think Dawson has the potential to be very great.

What I ahve been saying is that Pavlik is a fine technical fighter in the style he fights, He does get hit, but so do most fighters coming forward, but he doesn't quite have the Ike Quartey, Winky WRight air tight defense. He throws all the punches well, he throws good combinations. But his flaws are his physical body, Sure he is very tall and strong, but he has ordinary speed, his chin is like Cotto's, its ok, but it isn't where it needs to be if he is going to get hit a lot in a fight by even a decent puncher. I also get the sense that if he got into a brutal fight his body wouldn't be able to take it just like Cotto and Thomas Hearns against Hagler, I see him fighting certain guys like Glen Johnson and them breaking him down. I am just saying don't overhype him because he beat Jermain Taylor, Bernard Hopkins deserved a win against Taylor, Winky WRight deserved a decision against Taylor, even arguably Cory Spinks deserved a decision against Taylor if you are going by effective punching and not who has more power, the middleweight? Or the featherfisted welterweight?

nobody is indestructable anybody can be beat by certain fighters. and kelly doesnt have a chin like cotto. kelly has great recovery. cotto has been hurt by zab,torres,corley,mosley, and most recently kod by tony. and i dont recall pavlik being hurt by miranda who punches hard as hell.

He did get hurt by Miranda, and who besides Miranda has Pavlik foughten that hits hard or landed a hart punch on him? Judah hits harder then Taylor p4p, As does Torres. Mosley never EVER hurt Cotto, where the hell did you get that from? Is it when Cotto slipped? Maybe you should watch the entire fight because Mosley I believe that exact same round slips in the EXACT same spot. Don't let HBO blowing their load throw you off. Cotto was severly weight drained when he fought at 140 thats his excuse, he looked like a skeleton at the weighins. Hell even Malignaggi got more respect with his punches then Mosley or Quintana did when COtto moved up to WW. Pavlik isn't badly weight drained to make middleweight.

[kingfrnk]

How the fuck can you say Glen Johnson isn't indestructible? He has taken punches from the heaviest punchers in the Light heavyweight division, and he has never gone down once. The only time he got stoped was in the middleweight fight against Hopkins, and I think you should watch that fight because maybe you don't remember the drumbing he took from Bernard who hit him with way more punches than PAvlik would.

Your an idiot for saying Kessler is a two trick pony, He has a great jab, he has a great cross, he biggest weapon is his left hook, and his right uppercut is deadly as well. Not to mention he is a terrific combination puncher, counter puncher, and general ring tactician, he is easily one of the top 10 p4p fighters, and he would destroy Pavlik.

Also did Calzaghe look wobbly at all after the shot he took from Hopkins? Did he get dropped by any of the huge right hands Kessler dropped on him? Pavlik doesn't one punch top end opponents, he isn't Thomas Hearns, and Calzaghe wouldn't let Pavlik physically bully him around. He didn't let a very strong Lacy, or a very strong Kessler bully him around either. Pavlik can't just walk through punches all night, he is more intelligent than that, and Calzaghe won't let Pavlik get off with his punches, it was Taylor's inactivity that allowed Pavlik to win that fight.

This answers two people. Chad Dawson could make 160 if he needed, he is very skiny, and wasn't always light heavyweight, also Pavlik is not a natural middleweight, why do you think he is a foot taller then half his opponents? Guys like him are the Paul Williams' of the middleweight division. Pavlik could easily be natural lightheavy weight, and we will see him up there before long. Whereas a guy like Hopkins fought at middleweight until he was 40. Pavlik will be the bigger man against Hopkins when they fight, and he is almost as big as Dawson naturally. I mean Taylor walks around bigger then most lightheavyweights and he looked smaller then Pavlik.

Also I never said Dawson was that great either, I don't think he would have beaten Glen Johnson five years ago, hell I think Glen had a draw with him, if Johnson didn't win that fight. I also think Tarver might have beaten Dawson 5 years ago. I think that Roy JOnes in his prime would have KO'ed current Dawson in about 3 rounds. I think Dawson has the potential to be very great.

What I ahve been saying is that Pavlik is a fine technical fighter in the style he fights, He does get hit, but so do most fighters coming forward, but he doesn't quite have the Ike Quartey, Winky WRight air tight defense. He throws all the punches well, he throws good combinations. But his flaws are his physical body, Sure he is very tall and strong, but he has ordinary speed, his chin is like Cotto's, its ok, but it isn't where it needs to be if he is going to get hit a lot in a fight by even a decent puncher. I also get the sense that if he got into a brutal fight his body wouldn't be able to take it just like Cotto and Thomas Hearns against Hagler, I see him fighting certain guys like Glen Johnson and them breaking him down. I am just saying don't overhype him because he beat Jermain Taylor, Bernard Hopkins deserved a win against Taylor, Winky WRight deserved a decision against Taylor, even arguably Cory Spinks deserved a decision against Taylor if you are going by effective punching and not who has more power, the middleweight? Or the featherfisted welterweight?

nobody is indestructable anybody can be beat by certain fighters. and kelly doesnt have a chin like cotto. kelly has great recovery. cotto has been hurt by zab,torres,corley,mosley, and most recently kod by tony. and i dont recall pavlik being hurt by miranda who punches hard as hell.

Comparing Cotto being KO'd by Tony and Pavlik not getting KO'd by Miranda makes a good arguement for nothing......Miranda did not land on Pavlik like Tony did on Cotto....Taylor put Kelly down for an 8 count and Taylor does not hit as hard as Miranda......

i know. but taeth was tryna say that cotto and pavliks chin where the same. but how? i must know

[kingfrnk]

How the fuck can you say Glen Johnson isn't indestructible? He has taken punches from the heaviest punchers in the Light heavyweight division, and he has never gone down once. The only time he got stoped was in the middleweight fight against Hopkins, and I think you should watch that fight because maybe you don't remember the drumbing he took from Bernard who hit him with way more punches than PAvlik would.

Your an idiot for saying Kessler is a two trick pony, He has a great jab, he has a great cross, he biggest weapon is his left hook, and his right uppercut is deadly as well. Not to mention he is a terrific combination puncher, counter puncher, and general ring tactician, he is easily one of the top 10 p4p fighters, and he would destroy Pavlik.

Also did Calzaghe look wobbly at all after the shot he took from Hopkins? Did he get dropped by any of the huge right hands Kessler dropped on him? Pavlik doesn't one punch top end opponents, he isn't Thomas Hearns, and Calzaghe wouldn't let Pavlik physically bully him around. He didn't let a very strong Lacy, or a very strong Kessler bully him around either. Pavlik can't just walk through punches all night, he is more intelligent than that, and Calzaghe won't let Pavlik get off with his punches, it was Taylor's inactivity that allowed Pavlik to win that fight.

This answers two people. Chad Dawson could make 160 if he needed, he is very skiny, and wasn't always light heavyweight, also Pavlik is not a natural middleweight, why do you think he is a foot taller then half his opponents? Guys like him are the Paul Williams' of the middleweight division. Pavlik could easily be natural lightheavy weight, and we will see him up there before long. Whereas a guy like Hopkins fought at middleweight until he was 40. Pavlik will be the bigger man against Hopkins when they fight, and he is almost as big as Dawson naturally. I mean Taylor walks around bigger then most lightheavyweights and he looked smaller then Pavlik.

Also I never said Dawson was that great either, I don't think he would have beaten Glen Johnson five years ago, hell I think Glen had a draw with him, if Johnson didn't win that fight. I also think Tarver might have beaten Dawson 5 years ago. I think that Roy JOnes in his prime would have KO'ed current Dawson in about 3 rounds. I think Dawson has the potential to be very great.

What I ahve been saying is that Pavlik is a fine technical fighter in the style he fights, He does get hit, but so do most fighters coming forward, but he doesn't quite have the Ike Quartey, Winky WRight air tight defense. He throws all the punches well, he throws good combinations. But his flaws are his physical body, Sure he is very tall and strong, but he has ordinary speed, his chin is like Cotto's, its ok, but it isn't where it needs to be if he is going to get hit a lot in a fight by even a decent puncher. I also get the sense that if he got into a brutal fight his body wouldn't be able to take it just like Cotto and Thomas Hearns against Hagler, I see him fighting certain guys like Glen Johnson and them breaking him down. I am just saying don't overhype him because he beat Jermain Taylor, Bernard Hopkins deserved a win against Taylor, Winky WRight deserved a decision against Taylor, even arguably Cory Spinks deserved a decision against Taylor if you are going by effective punching and not who has more power, the middleweight? Or the featherfisted welterweight?

nobody is indestructable anybody can be beat by certain fighters. and kelly doesnt have a chin like cotto. kelly has great recovery. cotto has been hurt by zab,torres,corley,mosley, and most recently kod by tony. and i dont recall pavlik being hurt by miranda who punches hard as hell.

He did get hurt by Miranda, and who besides Miranda has Pavlik foughten that hits hard or landed a hart punch on him? Judah hits harder then Taylor p4p, As does Torres. Mosley never EVER hurt Cotto, where the hell did you get that from? Is it when Cotto slipped? Maybe you should watch the entire fight because Mosley I believe that exact same round slips in the EXACT same spot. Don't let HBO blowing their load throw you off. Cotto was severly weight drained when he fought at 140 thats his excuse, he looked like a skeleton at the weighins. Hell even Malignaggi got more respect with his punches then Mosley or Quintana did when COtto moved up to WW. Pavlik isn't badly weight drained to make middleweight.

why do u keep sayin who has kelly fought? he is still young stupid, and just barley started gettin these fights with bhop and JT. damn let the dude rest for a minute. and from wat i saw mosleey did hurt cotto a little, you tryna make it sound like i said he was fina get kod.

[Taeth]

Pavlik will always be a very good fighter, but even looking back at the legendary Hagler, if he didn't have his chin he would have a been a very good fighter, but he would have been knocked out by the first right hand Hearns landed on him, and we wouldn't consider him half as good as we do now. Sure he had a solid defense, good power, accuracy, timing, etc, but that chin seperated him from all the other fighter with those other qualities. Hell it even seperates Margarito from far better technical fighters than him because he doens't have to worry about whats hitting him. What I am saying is that it will take a special fighter to beat Pavlik, but Dawson, Kessler are clearly special fighters or will be in Chad's case. I am not even comparing these two because I don't think Chad is better then Pavlik at this moment, but speed, like a good chin, overcomes many obstacles.

kessler cant beat kelly at the moment. especially after the bhop fight kelly will have way more ring experience than kessler.

No he won't Pavlik will have foughten Taylor and Hopkins, when you add that to 30 some no hopers it isn't as much experience as all the good fighers Kessler beat when he was on top of the 168 division for several years, When it comes to Taylor I haven't seen another elite level fighter as easy to hit going backwards, or as off balance as him since Naseem Hamed(in terms of balance at least). Kessler is a great fighter, sure on paper he lost by a large margin against Calzaghe, but people forget a lot of those rounds that Calzaghe won were close rounds that involved Kessler scoring big right hands, but Calzaghe has a very good chin, and he has good speed which proved the most difficult for Kessler.

Kessler is an amazing fighter, he has speed power, determination, toughness, he can do anyhting in the ring. People forget he didn't spar for several weeks before he faced Calzaghe, and that would be an obvious disadvantage in terms of stamina, but Kessler would be able to PAvlik a lot easier, and because Pavlik is orthodox so that jab would be a factor when he wasn't able to really use it against Calzaghe, and that changes the entire dynamic of this fight. Taylor also has a great jab, but he doesn't throw combinations well, and he would always be off balance in countering situations where Kessler would be landing precise powerful punches.

[kingfrnk]

Pavlik will always be a very good fighter, but even looking back at the legendary Hagler, if he didn't have his chin he would have a been a very good fighter, but he would have been knocked out by the first right hand Hearns landed on him, and we wouldn't consider him half as good as we do now. Sure he had a solid defense, good power, accuracy, timing, etc, but that chin seperated him from all the other fighter with those other qualities. Hell it even seperates Margarito from far better technical fighters than him because he doens't have to worry about whats hitting him. What I am saying is that it will take a special fighter to beat Pavlik, but Dawson, Kessler are clearly special fighters or will be in Chad's case. I am not even comparing these two because I don't think Chad is better then Pavlik at this moment, but speed, like a good chin, overcomes many obstacles.

kessler cant beat kelly at the moment. especially after the bhop fight kelly will have way more ring experience than kessler.

No he won't Pavlik will have foughten Taylor and Hopkins, when you add that to 30 some no hopers it isn't as much experience as all the good fighers Kessler beat when he was on top of the 168 division for several years, When it comes to Taylor I haven't seen another elite level fighter as easy to hit going backwards, or as off balance as him since Naseem Hamed(in terms of balance at least). Kessler is a great fighter, sure on paper he lost by a large margin against Calzaghe, but people forget a lot of those rounds that Calzaghe won were close rounds that involved Kessler scoring big right hands, but Calzaghe has a very good chin, and he has good speed which proved the most difficult for Kessler.

Kessler is an amazing fighter, he has speed power, determination, toughness, he can do anyhting in the ring. People forget he didn't spar for several weeks before he faced Calzaghe, and that would be an obvious disadvantage in terms of stamina, but Kessler would be able to PAvlik a lot easier, and because Pavlik is orthodox so that jab would be a factor when he wasn't able to really use it against Calzaghe, and that changes the entire dynamic of this fight. Taylor also has a great jab, but he doesn't throw combinations well, and he would always be off balance in countering situations where Kessler would be landing precise powerful punches.

oh and kelly doesnt shoe any of that. kelly isnt that damn slow now and if he was the why does he have so many kos. i agree kessler is a good fighter, but im afraid im gonna need to see more than the calzaghe fight to be really impressed like you so i can be all over his sack like you.

[Taeth]

nobody is indestructable anybody can be beat by certain fighters. and kelly doesnt have a chin like cotto. kelly has great recovery. cotto has been hurt by zab,torres,corley,mosley, and most recently kod by tony. and i dont recall pavlik being hurt by miranda who punches hard as hell.

He did get hurt by Miranda, and who besides Miranda has Pavlik foughten that hits hard or landed a hart punch on him? Judah hits harder then Taylor p4p, As does Torres. Mosley never EVER hurt Cotto, where the hell did you get that from? Is it when Cotto slipped? Maybe you should watch the entire fight because Mosley I believe that exact same round slips in the EXACT same spot. Don't let HBO blowing their load throw you off. Cotto was severly weight drained when he fought at 140 thats his excuse, he looked like a skeleton at the weighins. Hell even Malignaggi got more respect with his punches then Mosley or Quintana did when COtto moved up to WW. Pavlik isn't badly weight drained to make middleweight.

why do u keep sayin who has kelly fought? he is still young stupid, and just barley started gettin these fights with bhop and JT. damn let the dude rest for a minute. and from wat i saw mosleey did hurt cotto a little, you tryna make it sound like i said he was fina get kod.

I only saying who has Pavlik fought in terms of
1. A puncher
2. more then just one elite fighter who is riddled with flaws
3. a fighter who isn't 43 regardless of his accomplishments
4. a complete fighter with speed and power.

I am comparing Pavlik's chin to Cotto's in that its good, but its not elite level. It definitely hasn't shown that it can withstand a beating, if he was just suffered a flash knockdown against Taylor, or it was late in the fight after he had taken a ton of punches that would be one thing, but Taylor almost knocked him out with one punch, and Taylor couldn't knock out Cory Spinks or Ouma or any of the B calss or higher fighters he has faced, and yet he almost KO'ed Pavlik. Besides that Corley fight, every guy (Judah, Margarito, Torres) that has hurt Cotto has had from a good punch to a devastating punch(in Torres). Cotto didn't have problems with Quintana's power, with Abduallaev's power, with Mosley's power. In the Mosley fight it was the cut in his mouth, and him changing strategies to run out the clock that were the reasons Cotto was moving a lot. Against Judah and Margarito he never went down from a single punch like Pavlik did against Taylor, Judah hurt him, but Cotto was able to retaliate immediately with hard punches and recovered almost instantly, against Magarito the accumulation broke him down. So I think the comparison is fair, at least until Pavlik fights better fighters, which he will do.

[Taeth]

kessler cant beat kelly at the moment. especially after the bhop fight kelly will have way more ring experience than kessler.

No he won't Pavlik will have foughten Taylor and Hopkins, when you add that to 30 some no hopers it isn't as much experience as all the good fighers Kessler beat when he was on top of the 168 division for several years, When it comes to Taylor I haven't seen another elite level fighter as easy to hit going backwards, or as off balance as him since Naseem Hamed(in terms of balance at least). Kessler is a great fighter, sure on paper he lost by a large margin against Calzaghe, but people forget a lot of those rounds that Calzaghe won were close rounds that involved Kessler scoring big right hands, but Calzaghe has a very good chin, and he has good speed which proved the most difficult for Kessler.

Kessler is an amazing fighter, he has speed power, determination, toughness, he can do anyhting in the ring. People forget he didn't spar for several weeks before he faced Calzaghe, and that would be an obvious disadvantage in terms of stamina, but Kessler would be able to PAvlik a lot easier, and because Pavlik is orthodox so that jab would be a factor when he wasn't able to really use it against Calzaghe, and that changes the entire dynamic of this fight. Taylor also has a great jab, but he doesn't throw combinations well, and he would always be off balance in countering situations where Kessler would be landing precise powerful punches.

oh and kelly doesnt shoe any of that. kelly isnt that damn slow now and if he was the why does he have so many kos. i agree kessler is a good fighter, but im afraid im gonna need to see more than the calzaghe fight to be really impressed like you so i can be all over his sack like you.

If you haven't seen more than just his fight against Calzaghe then you shouldn't even be arguing with me because you know nothing about Kessler. Watch him against Andrade, against Mundine, against Lucas... Kessler is absolutely amazing, and he will be one of the best fighters in the world again, as is Pavlik, but once against its a bad matchup for Pavlik. Punchers without iron clad chins have difficulties with coutner punchers that carry some power.

[amat]

Who has anyone fought like that Taeth? Who has Kessler beat who fits that criteria, or Dawson? And what happened? Come on that's a bit of an unfair standard. Kessler-Pavlik would be a great Pavlik, Kessler has looked venerable moving back before he isn't a perfect fighter and he's not fighting Bernard Hopkins or anyone of the sort, he's fighting guys I've never heard of in Denmark.

Dawson is a great fighter and a great guy for the sport moving forward but they even said it in the buildup of the Harding fight that he grew and simply couldn't take the toll to become a super middleweight much less a middleweight. If anything he would meat Pavlik halfway he's not going back down.