Joe Calzaghe under the micoscope

[Kev]

Kessler - Hopkins - Roy Jones JR
that makes him an all time great ?, cos the rest of it is pretty crappy to me.

Ok run off Hopkins wins that make him an all time great.

Then run off Jones wins that make him an all time great.

Then run off Oscar De La Hoyas wins that make him an all time great.

Then Felix Trinidad.

Then Floyd Mayweather.


Thanks

[Drago]

yo dark lord u done your homework so respect there man, but as already mentioned look at some of the ATG defences & they are more suspect.

take tyson anyone he wasnt almost certain to beat, beat him

[Dark Lord Al]

Bilbo your analogy of Marciano is a fair point , however nobody really takes Rocky's win over an old Joe Louis seriously , so why should people take a win over a guy who has been KOED on two occasions and is way past his best , in Roy Jones seriously ?
i actually think RJJ is a no win fight for Calzaghe and he may end up with egg on his face.

[ICB]

Ahh Dark Lord Al i know you want me to share my points, but im staying well away from this one.

[leftylee]

I totally agree Al. Calzaghe's resume is full of grandads, bums and mere contenders. Serioulsey the only decent name that stands out is Kessler. Even that was in his backyard. Half the names on his resume I don't know who the fukk they are. Mger Mkratchian ? LOL. Pure comical. I guess beating a complete washed up RJJ completes his utter fantastic resume

[Kev]

I totally agree Al. Calzaghe's resume is full of grandads, bums and mere contenders. Serioulsey the only decent name that stands out is Kessler. Even that was in his backyard. Half the names on his resume I don't know who the fukk they are. Mger Mkratchian ? LOL. Pure comical. I guess beating a complete washed up RJJ completes his utter fantastic resume

Well sadly proven legends like Urango, Maussa, Collazo, McGee and Thaxton don't compete in the supermiddleweight division.

One of the grandads didn't too badly last week against the world's greatest middleweight and Poppa Jones is only 3 years older than Calzaghe.

You can hardly say that Jones has been in many ring wars either, they guy has only been hit twice in his career both times knocked out.

I'm fed up with people trying to discredit Joe Calzaghe, his resume is outstanding, he's the only fighter currently fighting who has gone through his entire career, compltely uinfying a division and owning everybody in the process without a single defeat.

He's the second best fighter in the world right now and the best fighter Britain has ever produced.

[leftylee]

I totally agree Al. Calzaghe's resume is full of grandads, bums and mere contenders. Serioulsey the only decent name that stands out is Kessler. Even that was in his backyard. Half the names on his resume I don't know who the fukk they are. Mger Mkratchian ? LOL. Pure comical. I guess beating a complete washed up RJJ completes his utter fantastic resume

Well sadly proven legends like Urango, Maussa, Collazo, McGee and Thaxton don't compete in the supermiddleweight division.

One of the grandads didn't too badly last week against the world's greatest middleweight and Poppa Jones is only 3 years older than Calzaghe.

You can hardly say that Jones has been in many ring wars either, they guy has only been hit twice in his career both times knocked out.

I'm fed up with people trying to discredit Joe Calzaghe, his resume is outstanding, he's the only fighter currently fighting who has gone through his entire career, compltely uinfying a division and owning everybody in the process without a single defeat.

He's the second best fighter in the world right now and the best fighter Britain has ever produced.

Your speaking like your Welsh. Calzaghe's resume is far from great.

And those 4 fighters off Hatton's resume: 3 were world champions and one's an EBU champion. Hatton fought and beat the 4.

[Phil]

I totally agree Al. Calzaghe's resume is full of grandads, bums and mere contenders. Serioulsey the only decent name that stands out is Kessler. Even that was in his backyard. Half the names on his resume I don't know who the fukk they are. Mger Mkratchian ? LOL. Pure comical. I guess beating a complete washed up RJJ completes his utter fantastic resume

Well sadly proven legends like Urango, Maussa, Collazo, McGee and Thaxton don't compete in the supermiddleweight division.

One of the grandads didn't too badly last week against the world's greatest middleweight and Poppa Jones is only 3 years older than Calzaghe.

You can hardly say that Jones has been in many ring wars either, they guy has only been hit twice in his career both times knocked out.

I'm fed up with people trying to discredit Joe Calzaghe, his resume is outstanding, he's the only fighter currently fighting who has gone through his entire career, compltely uinfying a division and owning everybody in the process without a single defeat.

He's the second best fighter in the world right now and the best fighter Britain has ever produced.

Your speaking like your Welsh. Calzaghe's resume is far from great.

And those 4 fighters off Hatton's resume: 3 were world champions and one's an EBU champion. Hatton fought and beat the 4.

Kessler was in Calzaghe's backyard but where did Hatton fight Tszyu?
fair enough that u think Calzaghes overrated but he's accomplished alot more than Hatton...

[Drago]

here is RJJ fight career from 1993


1993
Feb. 13 -- Glenn Wolfe, Las Vegas, Nevada, KO 1
May 22 -- Bernard Hopkins, Washington D.C, W 12
(Captured IBF middleweight title)
Aug. 14 -- Thulane Malinga, St. Louis Bay, Mississippi, KO 6
Nov. 30 -- Fermin Chirino, Pensacola, Florida, W 10

1994
Mar. 22 -- Daniel Garcia, Pensacola, Florida, KO 6
May 27 -- Thomas Tate, Las Vegas, Nevada, KO 2
(Retained IBF middleweight title)
Nov. 18 -- James Toney, Las Vegas, Nevada, W 12
(Captured IBF super middleweight title)

1995
Mar. 18 -- Antoine Byrd, Pensacola, Florida, TKO 1
(Retained IBF super middleweight title)
June 24 -- Vinny Pazienza, Atlantic City, New Jersey, TKO 6
(Retained IBF super middleweight title)
Sep. 30 -- Tony Thornton, Pensacola, Florida, TKO 2
(Retained IBF super middleweight title)

1996
Jan. 12 -- Merqui Sosa, New York City, TKO 2
June 15 -- Eric Lucas, Jacksonville, Florida, KO 11
(Retained IBF super middleweight title)
Oct. 4 -- Bryant Brannon, New York City, KO 2
(Retained IBF super middleweight title)
Nov. 22 -- Mike McCallum, Tampa, Florida, W 12
(Won interim WBC light heavyweight title)

1997
Mar. 21 -- Montell Griffin, Atlantic City, New Jersey, L DQ 9
(Lost WBC light heavyweight title)
Aug. 21 -- Montell Griffin, Ledyard, Connecticut, KO 1
(Regained WBC light heavyweight title)

1998
Apr. 25 -- Virgil Hill, Biloxi,Mississippi, KO 4
July 18 -- Lou Del Valle, New York, W 12
(Unified WBC and WBA light heavyweight titles)
Nov. 14 -- Otis Grant, Mashantucket, Connecticut, TKO 10
(Retained WBC and WBA light heavyweight titles)

1999
Jan. 9 -- Rick Frazier, Pensacola, Florida, KO 2
(Retained WBC and WBA light heavyweight titles)
June 5 -- Reggie Johnson, Biloxi, Mississippi, W 12
(Unifies WBA-WBC-IBF light heavyweight titles)

2000
Jan. 15 -- David Telesco, New York City, W 12
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)
May 13 -- Richard Hall, Indianapolis, Indiana, TKO 11
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)
Sept. 9 -- Eric Harding, New Orleans, Louisiana, TKO 10
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)

2001
Feb. 24 -- Derrick Harmon, Tampa, Florida, TKO 10
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)
July 28 -- Julio Gonzalez, Los Angeles, California, W 12
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)

2002
Feb. 2 -- Glenn Kelly, Miami, Florida, TKO 7
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)
Sept. 7 -- Clinton Woods, Portland, Oregon, TKO 6
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)

2003
March 1 -- John Ruiz, Las Vegas, Nevada, W 12
(Captured WBA heavyweight title)
Nov. 8 -- Antonio Tarver, Las Vegas, Nevada, W 12
(Captured WBC light heavyweight title)

2004
May 15 -- Antonio Tarver, Las Vegas, Nevada, TKO by 2
(Lost WBC light heavyweight title)
(Lost WBA light heavyweight title)
Sept. 25 -- Glengoffe Johnson, Memphis, TN, KO by 9
(For IBF Light Heavyweight Title)

2005
Oct. 1 -- Antonio Tarver, Tampa, FL, L 12 *RECAP*

2006
July 29 -- Prince Badi Ajamu, Boise, Idaho, W 12 *RECAP*

2007
07-14 -- Anthony Hanshaw, Biloxi, MS, W 12

2008
Jan. 19 -- Felix Trinidad, New York, NY, W 12 *RECAP*

thoughts

[Kev]

It's funny because Jones resume in terms of actual fighters is barely more impressive than Joe's

He beat Hopkins, but a green Hopkins who hadn't fully matured into the wiley fox he would later become. I don't believe that the Hopkins that Jones beat was better than the Hopkins that Calzaghe beat even in spite of the advancing years.

James Toney we all know the stories about the massive amount of weight he had to lose. Plus back then Toney wasn't the slick awkward fighter he was in higher weight classes. Michael Nunn outboxed him easily early as well. Toney really improved in terms of skills as he got older and anyway was much better suited at the higher weights.

Mike McCallum was a decent win but he was 40 and coming off a loss. Definitely at the end of his career, no better a win than Eubank certainly.


Then who else?

Clinton Woods, Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson, decent fighters but not world beaters.

John Ruiz? Well it was a big achievement moving up to heavyweight to beat him but Ruix is derided as being universally recognised as one of the worst heavyweight champs ever.

Then Tarver who KO'd Jones and Glen Johnson who also Ko'd him.


If you just look at opponents you can make a case against any fighter.

Calzaghe's record is superb, if he beats Jones he has to first ballot hall of famers on his record, a great champ in Chris Eubank plus two highly rated undefeated, prime world champs in Kessler and Lacy.

He's proven himself, he's an all time great.

[ICB]

It's funny because Jones resume in terms of actual fighters is barely more impressive than Joe's

He beat Hopkins, but a green Hopkins who hadn't fully matured into the wiley fox he would later become. I don't believe that the Hopkins that Jones beat was better than the Hopkins that Calzaghe beat even in spite of the advancing years.

James Toney we all know the stories about the massive amount of weight he had to lose. Plus back then Toney wasn't the slick awkward fighter he was in higher weight classes. Michael Nunn outboxed him easily early as well. Toney really improved in terms of skills as he got older and anyway was much better suited at the higher weights.

Mike McCallum was a decent win but he was 40 and coming off a loss. Definitely at the end of his career, no better a win than Eubank certainly.


Then who else?

Clinton Woods, Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson, decent fighters but not world beaters.

John Ruiz? Well it was a big achievement moving up to heavyweight to beat him but Ruix is derided as being universally recognised as one of the worst heavyweight champs ever.

Then Tarver who KO'd Jones and Glen Johnson who also Ko'd him.


If you just look at opponents you can make a case against any fighter.

Calzaghe's record is superb, if he beats Jones he has to first ballot hall of famers on his record, a great champ in Chris Eubank plus two highly rated undefeated, prime world champs in Kessler and Lacy.

He's proven himself, he's an all time great.

RJJ was just as green as Bernard Hopkins Bilbo he had less fights than Hopkins, so that excuse works both ways does it not ?

James Toney fought amazing fight against Michael Nunn what are you talking about Bilbo ? Michael Nunn had the early advantage, but James Toney caught up with him and won all of the later rounds with great boxing skills, and knocked him out impressively, and Michael Nunn was a top 10 P4P fighter at that time with tons of good wins.

James Toney had also fought great fights against Iran Barkey, Doug De Witt, Mike McCallum 1, arguably his best performances of his career so i have no idea what your talking about to be honest Bilbo, James Toney was clearly better at Middleweight/Super Middleweight and all of these fights were before the RJJ fight. And James Toney was a P4P top 3 fighter when RJJ beat him, and James Toney always had weight problems.

Mike McCallum was 39 years old and after he lost to RJJ, he went on to give James Toney a very good argument. Which showed he still had alot left in the tank.

And Bilbo what about Thulani Malinga ? RJJ destroyed him and Thulani Malinga was unlucky not to beat Chris Eubank, And Thulani Malinga beat Nigel Benn and was also unlucky not to 2 wins over Nigel Benn. And plus heres the best part Bilbo, a 40+ Thulani Maglina outboxed and beat Robin Reid before Joe Calzaghe did it and beat him much more convincing aswell.

Plus RJJ has good wins over.

Virgil Hill
Jorge Fernando Castro
Eric Harding
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Clinton Woods
Montel Griffin
Reggie Johnson
Thomas Tate

ETC.

[RozzySean]

It's funny because Jones resume in terms of actual fighters is barely more impressive than Joe's

He beat Hopkins, but a green Hopkins who hadn't fully matured into the wiley fox he would later become. I don't believe that the Hopkins that Jones beat was better than the Hopkins that Calzaghe beat even in spite of the advancing years.

James Toney we all know the stories about the massive amount of weight he had to lose. Plus back then Toney wasn't the slick awkward fighter he was in higher weight classes. Michael Nunn outboxed him easily early as well. Toney really improved in terms of skills as he got older and anyway was much better suited at the higher weights.

Mike McCallum was a decent win but he was 40 and coming off a loss. Definitely at the end of his career, no better a win than Eubank certainly.


Then who else?

Clinton Woods, Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson, decent fighters but not world beaters.

John Ruiz? Well it was a big achievement moving up to heavyweight to beat him but Ruix is derided as being universally recognised as one of the worst heavyweight champs ever.

Then Tarver who KO'd Jones and Glen Johnson who also Ko'd him.


If you just look at opponents you can make a case against any fighter.

Calzaghe's record is superb, if he beats Jones he has to first ballot hall of famers on his record, a great champ in Chris Eubank plus two highly rated undefeated, prime world champs in Kessler and Lacy.

He's proven himself, he's an all time great.

Both Jones and Calzaghe are guilty of not making certain fights which should have been made. Joninnes should have fought Steve Collins and Dariusz. Jones and Calzaghe should have met sometime between 2000 and 2002. Shame on both of them for not making the fight. Calzaghe should have been willing to go Germany and fight Ottke. That wasn't all Calzaghe's fault, but his team is partially to blame.

BOTH are ATG and HoF level fighters, but neither one acted like a true champion and made the best, toughest fights available. Both were content to make money off silly defenses mandated by idiotic, corrupt sanctioning bodies. Both guys were scared to take risks in there careers until the the back end, when when they realized that they better cash in before they lost it completely and there names had gotten big enough.

It's funny, when you look at Roy Jones record, you see a lot of guys that Roy catching guys on the back nine, and a bunch who James Toney and/or somebody else had already beat when they were in there primes - McCallum (Toney), Sosa (Toney and Nunn), Reggie Johnson (Toney), Gllen Wolfe (Toney) Virgil Hill (old Hearns, Dariusz), Toney Thornton (Eubank and Toney).

Yet he Jones would never rematch Hopkins or Toney. Never sought Calzaghe in his prime. Never fought Steve Collins or Dariusz. Picked one of the worst HW belt-holders in history to cherry pick his belt at HW.

Both are all-time greats, but Calzaghe deserves all the crap he gets, and it's too bad that Jones gets a free pass from so many people for being such a bitch-ass for a pretty good chuck of his career. He beats a weight drained James Toney, leaves strong SMW with unifying. He goes LHW and spends half his career beating James Toney's leftovers. Sad, because he was so talented and we deserved to see him against better opposition.

Jones gets all love. Joe gets all the crap. Makes no sense when they are so similar.

[Fenster]

I totally agree Al. Calzaghe's resume is full of grandads, bums and mere contenders. Serioulsey the only decent name that stands out is Kessler. Even that was in his backyard. Half the names on his resume I don't know who the fukk they are. Mger Mkratchian? LOL. Pure comical. I guess beating a complete washed up RJJ completes his utter fantastic resume

Decent fighter. Won the European title after Calzaghe beat him.

[leftylee]

I totally agree Al. Calzaghe's resume is full of grandads, bums and mere contenders. Serioulsey the only decent name that stands out is Kessler. Even that was in his backyard. Half the names on his resume I don't know who the fukk they are. Mger Mkratchian? LOL. Pure comical. I guess beating a complete washed up RJJ completes his utter fantastic resume

Decent fighter. Won the European title after Calzaghe beat him.

Boxrec certainly does come in handy for Calzaghe fans.

[littlebif]

Some of Calzaghe's defences have been against soft fighters but over years there hasnt been that many good fighters at SM and what few there have been Calzaghe has fought and beat them all.