~ A Message to Referee Marlon B. Wright ~ (Ref. for Andrade-Bute)

[Fenster]

I am admittedly not an expert, but to me, the rule seems to imply that the fighter has survived the possibility a knock out once his gloves clear the floor.

"The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout.If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor."

Once his hands clear the floor and the bell right, the fight is over and the "downed" fighter has survived. At least that's how it seems to me.

Obviously the ref was biased towards Bute, but, upon reflection, I feel that the decision at the end of the fight was justified (regardless of the "back to the neutral corner" bullshit) as Bute had made it to his feet prior to a legitimate 10 count. However, their is sufficient doubt that a rematch must be ordered in a neutral setting.

I'm pretty certain you're right mate. He beat the count which means he finished the fight. There's nothing about having to walk forward.

Imagine the uproar if a ref stopped a fighter on his feet AFTER the fight had finished

[CFH]

I am admittedly not an expert, but to me, the rule seems to imply that the fighter has survived the possibility a knock out once his gloves clear the floor.

"The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout.If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor."

Once his hands clear the floor and the bell right, the fight is over and the "downed" fighter has survived. At least that's how it seems to me.

Obviously the ref was biased towards Bute, but, upon reflection, I feel that the decision at the end of the fight was justified (regardless of the "back to the neutral corner" bullshit) as Bute had made it to his feet prior to a legitimate 10 count. However, their is sufficient doubt that a rematch must be ordered in a neutral setting.

I'm pretty certain you're right mate. He beat the count which means he finished the fight. There's nothing about having to walk forward.

Imagine the uproar if a ref stopped a fighter on his feet AFTER the fight had finished

That would have been a travesty IMO.

I do certainly agree with those who criticism the ref, and while Andrade did get away with a few fouls, Bute was allowed to hold, grab Andrade's legs etc. all fight long. That, combined with the disputed finale to the fight, is enough for me to think a rematch is justified.

[Fenster]

I am admittedly not an expert, but to me, the rule seems to imply that the fighter has survived the possibility a knock out once his gloves clear the floor.

"The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout.If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor."

Once his hands clear the floor and the bell right, the fight is over and the "downed" fighter has survived. At least that's how it seems to me.

Obviously the ref was biased towards Bute, but, upon reflection, I feel that the decision at the end of the fight was justified (regardless of the "back to the neutral corner" bullshit) as Bute had made it to his feet prior to a legitimate 10 count. However, their is sufficient doubt that a rematch must be ordered in a neutral setting.

I'm pretty certain you're right mate. He beat the count which means he finished the fight. There's nothing about having to walk forward.

Imagine the uproar if a ref stopped a fighter on his feet AFTER the fight had finished

That would have been a travesty IMO.

I do certainly agree with those who criticism the ref, and while Andrade did get away with a few fouls, Bute was allowed to hold, grab Andrade's legs etc. all fight long. That, combined with the disputed finale to the fight, is enough for me to think a rematch is justified.

I think the rule makes sense.

I didn't think Bute was in a fit state to continue (maybe could have been stopped before the knockdown). But you can't deem a fighter unfit to fight AFTER a contest has ended.

The ref was poor. Andrade was unlucky.

[CFH]

I'm pretty certain you're right mate. He beat the count which means he finished the fight. There's nothing about having to walk forward.

Imagine the uproar if a ref stopped a fighter on his feet AFTER the fight had finished

That would have been a travesty IMO.

I do certainly agree with those who criticism the ref, and while Andrade did get away with a few fouls, Bute was allowed to hold, grab Andrade's legs etc. all fight long. That, combined with the disputed finale to the fight, is enough for me to think a rematch is justified.

I think the rule makes sense.

I didn't think Bute was in a fit state to continue (maybe could have been stopped before the knockdown). But you can't deem a fighter unfit to fight AFTER a contest has ended.

The ref was poor. Andrade was unlucky.

Again, we are in complete agreement. If there was even ten seconds left in the fight, then stop it, but the bell had rang and the fight had ended when Bute made it to his feet and his gloves had cleared the canvas.

I think with a different ref there may well have been a different outcome as Bute would not have been allowed to hold/foul all night, but I think the decision as the end of the fight not to call a TKO on Bute was completely correct.

I want to see a rematch so we can put all these questions to bed.

[Mikkel_K]

I didn't think Bute was in a fit state to continue (maybe could have been stopped before the knockdown). But you can't deem a fighter unfit to fight AFTER a contest has ended.

But seriously, and I'm asking in all honesty here, can you really say you beat the count, if you are not fit to continue? To me beating the count means getting up and ready before the count is up. But is that just me, or is there an actual definition somewhere?

[CFH]

I didn't think Bute was in a fit state to continue (maybe could have been stopped before the knockdown). But you can't deem a fighter unfit to fight AFTER a contest has ended.

But seriously, and I'm asking in all honesty here, can you really say you beat the count, if you are not fit to continue? To me beating the count means getting up and ready before the count is up. But is that just me, or is there an actual definition somewhere?

I don't mean to answer for Fenster, but in my mind, if the fight ends once you make it to your feet and your gloves clear the canvas, then you beat the count. Whether or not your are fit to continue is irrelevant, because there is no fight to continue with as it has ended.

I can understand your perspective and why you feel that way, I just feel, according to the way I interpret the IBF rules, that this makes sense.

[RP33]

I didn't think Bute was in a fit state to continue (maybe could have been stopped before the knockdown). But you can't deem a fighter unfit to fight AFTER a contest has ended.

But seriously, and I'm asking in all honesty here, can you really say you beat the count, if you are not fit to continue? To me beating the count means getting up and ready before the count is up. But is that just me, or is there an actual definition somewhere?

I don't mean to answer for Fenster, but in my mind, if the fight ends once you make it to your feet and your gloves clear the canvas, then you beat the count. Whether or not your are fit to continue is irrelevant, because there is no fight to continue with as it has ended.

I can understand your perspective and why you feel that way, I just feel, according to the way I interpret the IBF rules, that this makes sense.

first off, being able to continue fight does NOT mean getting up before the count.. just because you can stand, does not mean you can defend yourself, don't be silly..

CFH is correct, and i think i already said the same thing in this thread.. You are not expected to fight past 12 rounds.. If he gets up and beats the count, and the bell rings, i don't see how a ref could call the fight..

think about the allan green/edison miranda fight.. if that was the second round of that fight when green kept getting knocked down the ref would've called it, he could barely stand.. but he gave him a chance to finish the fight..