Capitalism

[killersheep]

Trainer nobody forces those people to mine coal...get over it. No one holds a gun to their head and says "You HAVE to do this" and to suggest otherwise is moronic. I work for a millionaire, he was a mill worker (a worker not an owner), his dad was a mill worker (a worker not an owner, not a manager, just a worker) in one of the poorest parts of North Carolina, he paid for his own education, he earned his money and he achieved....because of government? because of wealth redistribution? NO it's because he got the idea in his head that he could be more and he went out and worked everyday towards his goal and he has achieved....the only people that stop those poor miners from being something else are themselves and that is the 100% God's honest truth.

Healthcare isn't a RIGHT it's a privilege, however health insurance does need fixing and I have gone over that plenty of times before....The education system needs lots of fixing to be competitive as well.

killersheep the market will fix the problem the government caused

Lyle I think we need to get on the same page here. So for starters let's begin with this question.
How did the government cause the current financial climate?

[El Kabong]

Killersheep, both parties worked to achieve certain goals and the ways which they tried to achieve them ended up hurting plenty of people. The Community Reinvestment Act (Jimmy Carter), the regulatory changes made to that act(Bill Clinton, Sen. Dodd, Sen. Frank, Sen. Schumer), and George W. Bush's deregulation and companies taking advantage of the money handed out by Fannie and Freddie and their own greed from making commissions on loans all add up to one big problem for us.

There is a saying which is relevant to this crisis "Success has a thousand fathers and failure is an orphan"

Kirkland I have heard that from Mr. Buffett before and I knew that about Eisenhower as well. I still support The Fair Tax a tax that James Madison said would be the most just way to tax the populus. I also disagree with raising taxes not because I don't rich people taxed, not because I don't want to pay taxes, but because we spend too much as it is and when they fix the spending then they can raise the taxes. But I know your views on the Fair Tax and I'm sure you'll go ahead and spout off whatever you want to about it but that's what I support because it's fair and you can hold your politicians more accountable.

Trainer, I don't look down my nose at anyone, those guys who work hard in those mines provide for us, they are an integral part of society but if they didn't get paid enough then nobody would do that job. Also there are other places to work not just other cities but other jobs in general there has to be stores and shops where these guys live, there has to be restaurants, bars, just other places to work. And even if there wasn't people can save and then go and achieve their own personal goals away from mining. Working toward your personal goals isn't easy and part of that hard work makes achieving those goals more satisfying.

[killersheep]

Killersheep, both parties worked to achieve certain goals and the ways which they tried to achieve them ended up hurting plenty of people. The Community Reinvestment Act (Jimmy Carter), the regulatory changes made to that act(Bill Clinton, Sen. Dodd, Sen. Frank, Sen. Schumer), and George W. Bush's deregulation and companies taking advantage of the money handed out by Fannie and Freddie and their own greed from making commissions on loans all add up to one big problem for us.

There is a saying which is relevant to this crisis "Success has a thousand fathers and failure is an orphan"

So you are saying that the Community Reinvestment Act caused predatory lending?

And Bush's deregulation and companies taking advantage of the commision from the loans of Fannie and Freddie are the reasons that the government caused the current economic climate?

I'm just doing my job as a liberal to try to understand your view here.

[El Kabong]

The plain version of Carter's Act didn't cause all of this by itself but it lead to the end result....when the Clinton's wanted to penalize banks for NOT giving out more sub-prime loans COULD have something to do with how things got out of hand

[killersheep]

The plain version of Carter's Act didn't cause all of this by itself but it lead to the end result....when the Clinton's wanted to penalize banks for NOT giving out more sub-prime loans COULD have something to do with how things got out of hand

Sub-prime loans are definately an issue, but would you agree that the interest rates and terms issued by corporations that don't fall under even Clinton's revisions hold equal share of the blame?

[El Kabong]

Intrest rates don't bother me, people should know what they can and cannot afford....both parties (Republicans, Democrats, Lenders, Borrowers) are in the wrong and therefore they all deserve blame.

[killersheep]

Intrest rates don't bother me, people should know what they can and cannot afford....both parties (Republicans, Democrats, Lenders, Borrowers) are in the wrong and therefore they all deserve blame.

So the argument you originally provided now reads

The free market will fix the problems Republicans, Democrats, Lenders and Borrowers created.

My question is how will the free market fix the problems Republicans, Democrats, Lenders and Borrowers created?

[Kirkland Laing]

The plain version of Carter's Act didn't cause all of this by itself but it lead to the end result....when the Clinton's wanted to penalize banks for NOT giving out more sub-prime loans COULD have something to do with how things got out of hand

Again, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter have nothing to do with the subprime meltdown. Clinton or Carter did not force one single unregulated loan to be made. Neither do Fannie or Freddie have any blame in this. The entire mess was caused by the GOP abandoning oversight and regulation of the mortgage and financial industries from 2002 onwards. Every loan that went bad was a loan made after 2002 with zero regulation.

[Kirkland Laing]

Killersheep, both parties worked to achieve certain goals and the ways which they tried to achieve them ended up hurting plenty of people. The Community Reinvestment Act (Jimmy Carter), the regulatory changes made to that act(Bill Clinton, Sen. Dodd, Sen. Frank, Sen. Schumer), and George W. Bush's deregulation and companies taking advantage of the money handed out by Fannie and Freddie and their own greed from making commissions on loans all add up to one big problem for us.

There is a saying which is relevant to this crisis "Success has a thousand fathers and failure is an orphan"

Kirkland I have heard that from Mr. Buffett before and I knew that about Eisenhower as well. I still support The Fair Tax a tax that James Madison said would be the most just way to tax the populus. I also disagree with raising taxes not because I don't rich people taxed, not because I don't want to pay taxes, but because we spend too much as it is and when they fix the spending then they can raise the taxes. But I know your views on the Fair Tax and I'm sure you'll go ahead and spout off whatever you want to about it but that's what I support because it's fair and you can hold your politicians more accountable.

Trainer, I don't look down my nose at anyone, those guys who work hard in those mines provide for us, they are an integral part of society but if they didn't get paid enough then nobody would do that job. Also there are other places to work not just other cities but other jobs in general there has to be stores and shops where these guys live, there has to be restaurants, bars, just other places to work. And even if there wasn't people can save and then go and achieve their own personal goals away from mining. Working toward your personal goals isn't easy and part of that hard work makes achieving those goals more satisfying.

The Bush tax cuts have caused such a drastic collapse of tax revenues that wiaitng to get spending unde control -- something you shouldn't hold your breath for -- isn't an option. Revenues have to go up soon to stop the deficit getting to the stage where foreign creditors stop funding the US. If that happens the current crisis will look like a tea party. The added benefit of raising taxes on the wealthy will be to get the economy moving again. So it's a win-win.