Capitalism

El Kabong · 10-28-2008 10:05 PM

The plain version of Carter's Act didn't cause all of this by itself but it lead to the end result....when the Clinton's wanted to penalize banks for NOT giving out more sub-prime loans COULD have something to do with how things got out of hand

**killersheep** · 10-28-2008 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Lyle

The plain version of Carter's Act didn't cause all of this by itself but it lead to the end result....when the Clinton's wanted to penalize banks for NOT giving out more sub-prime loans COULD have something to do with how things got out of hand

Sub-prime loans are definately an issue, but would you agree that the interest rates and terms issued by corporations that don't fall under even Clinton's revisions hold equal share of the blame?

El Kabong · 10-28-2008 10:38 PM

Intrest rates don't bother me, people should know what they can and cannot afford....both parties (Republicans, Democrats, Lenders, Borrowers) are in the wrong and therefore they all deserve blame.

**killersheep** · 10-28-2008 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Lyle

Intrest rates don't bother me, people should know what they can and cannot afford....both parties (Republicans, Democrats, Lenders, Borrowers) are in the wrong and therefore they all deserve blame.

So the argument you originally provided now reads

The free market will fix the problems Republicans, Democrats, Lenders and Borrowers created.

My question is how will the free market fix the problems Republicans, Democrats, Lenders and Borrowers created?

El Kabong · 10-28-2008 11:11 PM

Well the market has already lowered prices on houses, it has already weeded out most of the bad loans, people are out of their homes they couldn't afford and people are out of jobs they abused. Once there is an upturn in the economy which could be in a year, could be sooner people will be ready to buy those houses, hell people are already ready to buy those houses to sell later and make profit on.

Government will of course regulate (too late) but what it really needs is to have and use oversight which it had the opportunity to do before the shit hit the fan (with OFEO an oversight committee created to look over Freddie Mac) but certain politicians blocked the oversight of Fannie and Freddie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL36nwCSYUM

and Sarbanes-Oxley is bad for us

**killersheep** · 10-28-2008 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Lyle

Well the market has already lowered prices on houses, it has already weeded out most of the bad loans, people are out of their homes they couldn't afford and people are out of jobs they abused. Once there is an upturn in the economy which could be in a year, could be sooner people will be ready to buy those houses, hell people are already ready to buy those houses to sell later and make profit on.

Government will of course regulate (too late) but what it really needs is to have and use oversight which it had the opportunity to do before the shit hit the fan (with OFEO an oversight committee created to look over Freddie Mac) but certain politicians blocked the oversight of Fannie and Freddie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL36nwCSYUM

So the free market is fixing the problem by reducing home prices?
I also don't understand what you mean by "weeded out most of the bad loans".
I am trying to wrap my head around this, if unemployment continues to rise what does it matter if homes are cheaper?

El Kabong · 10-28-2008 11:23 PM

Unemployment will rise more once taxes are raised.

The free market is just going to ride it out buddy...eventually things will turn around, they always do. Government may try to expedite the process but they are spending too much money as it is. And eventually we'll all make the same mistakes all over again and by we I mean the government.

Feel free to explain your side buddy

**Kirkland Laing** · 10-28-2008 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Lyle

Well the market has already lowered prices on houses, it has already weeded out most of the bad loans, people are out of their homes they couldn't afford and people are out of jobs they abused. Once there is an upturn in the economy which could be in a year, could be sooner people will be ready to buy those houses, hell people are already ready to buy those houses to sell later and make profit on.

Government will of course regulate (too late) but what it really needs is to have and use oversight which it had the opportunity to do before the shit hit the fan (with OFEO an oversight committee created to look over Freddie Mac) but certain politicians blocked the oversight of Fannie and Freddie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL36nwCSYUM

F anf F had nothing to do with this Lyle. They're just a cog in the system, and were actually prevented from buying the dodgy subprime stuff by government regulation. Fannie lost 56% of her business in less than two years from 2003 onwards when the GOP allowed (freshly unregulated) mortgage firms to sell mortgages direct to (freshly unregulated) investment banks and similar financial institutions. F and F are only ever mentioned because they're the only way (other than an irrelevant 30 year old Jimmy Carter Act) that the GOP can tie this to Democrats, when in fact not one of the decisions that caused the current mess was made by a Dem, all being made by Republicans.

Once Wall Street got their hands on them they turned them into securities. But these securities still shouldn't have been allowed on the market except as junk bonds. Instead Wall Street firms bribed the (freashly unregulated) credit ratings agencies to give them a high rating. I'll go and get some of the evidence that's come out of the current hearings about this. Somebody emailed it to me but I junked it. There'll be a lot of this over the next months and it might be wort starting a thread for it.

**Kirkland Laing** · 10-28-2008 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Lyle

The plain version of Carter's Act didn't cause all of this by itself but it lead to the end result....when the Clinton's wanted to penalize banks for NOT giving out more sub-prime loans COULD have something to do with how things got out of hand

Again, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter have nothing to do with the subprime meltdown. Clinton or Carter did not force one single unregulated loan to be made. Neither do Fannie or Freddie have any blame in this. The entire mess was caused by the GOP abandoning oversight and regulation of the mortgage and financial industries from 2002 onwards. Every loan that went bad was a loan made after 2002 with zero regulation.