Joe Calzaghe under the micoscope

[Kev]

Yeah, he fought Veit, but what about the other load of crap that he fought? Beyer, Bute, and Mundine were all way better than the guys he fought.

You're being silly with the Bute business. When were they EVER likely to fight?
Has Bute EVER even mentioned Calzaghe? He has only just moved out of the novices - a step above Froch.

And what you need to understand is - it takes TWO to tango. Did it ever occur to you that guys like Mundine and Beyer, that could earn good money defending their belts in their own country, might not have WANTED to fight Calzaghe?

So only third rate fighters were willing to take on Calzaghe? The second rate ones didn't want any part of him? If Beyer was willing to fight Kessler, I doubt he would have been unwilling to fight Calzaghe given the chance.

As for Bute, in April 2007, Calzaghe fought Manfredo. Two months later Bute fought Bika. He had already stopped Salem in 8, with whom Joe went the distance the previous year. Sure, Bute was just a knotch up from prospect at that point, but he was a legit top 10 MWW at the time, if I remember correctly, he was ranked about 6th or 7th then. Why is it crazy to think they could have offered him that fight instead of Manfredo? Are you saying that Bute hadn't done more than Manfredo at that point to deserve a shot? Would that not have been a better fight for the fans and a better show case of his skills? Since when does it require calling somebody out to make a fight? Manfredo certainly wassn't calling him out. And, in Bute's next fight, he beat Bika probably more easily than Calzaghe did. Bute would have been a good choice for the Spring 2007 defense if Calzaghe was interested in giving the fans a decent fight. Joe would have won, but it would been an interesting and meaningful win.

Even offering that spring 2007 fight to Froch would have been more meaningful than dragging Manfredo to Wales. I suppose you think Froch would have turned that down?

Well first of all it's well known that Beyer wanted nothing to do with any of the top champions at 168 let alone Calzaghe.

He took the Kessler fight for the payday. He was barely able to hold on to the title as it was, almost losing it to nobodies so he took a final payday and travelled to Denmark to basically hand the title over to Kessler. He never wanted anything to do with Calzaghe at any time.

Calzaghe fighting Manfredo made far more business sense than a fight with Bute.

Calzaghe had in mind at this point breaking into the American box office like Hatton and in securing mega fights with Hopkins and Jones, the kind of huge box office stars and legendary fighters that any pro would want on their record.

To take on a completely unknown and potentially dangerous Canadian for absolutely no gain whatsover would have been a stupid move.

He fought Manfredo because he was well known in both America and the US.

You do realise that boxing is a business as well for these guys right?

I mean seriously, if you were Joe and you were looking down the line to career high paydays against American legends and you were looking to build your reputation in the US like Hatton did who would YOU have fought?

From a common sense perspective Manfredo was a great choice, big name in the US, not much risk.

To fight Bute instead of Manfredo would have lost Calzaghe a lot of money. For a start Manfredo was a sellout in the arena and the Americans were interested.

The Americans wouldn't have cared about Bute, Beyer or any other non high profile American.

Why do you think Roy Jones took on Felix Trinidad? Big name, little risk, lots of money, great publicity and a fight he was hugely favoured to win, so not jeapordise a fight with Joe.

Do you think Jones should have faced Dawson or Glen Johnson again instead of Trinidad, choosing to fight a tougher opponent, for far less money and with a real risk of jeapordising future paydays against Calzaghe?

[RozzySean]

You're being silly with the Bute business. When were they EVER likely to fight?
Has Bute EVER even mentioned Calzaghe? He has only just moved out of the novices - a step above Froch.

And what you need to understand is - it takes TWO to tango. Did it ever occur to you that guys like Mundine and Beyer, that could earn good money defending their belts in their own country, might not have WANTED to fight Calzaghe?

So only third rate fighters were willing to take on Calzaghe? The second rate ones didn't want any part of him? If Beyer was willing to fight Kessler, I doubt he would have been unwilling to fight Calzaghe given the chance.

As for Bute, in April 2007, Calzaghe fought Manfredo. Two months later Bute fought Bika. He had already stopped Salem in 8, with whom Joe went the distance the previous year. Sure, Bute was just a knotch up from prospect at that point, but he was a legit top 10 MWW at the time, if I remember correctly, he was ranked about 6th or 7th then. Why is it crazy to think they could have offered him that fight instead of Manfredo? Are you saying that Bute hadn't done more than Manfredo at that point to deserve a shot? Would that not have been a better fight for the fans and a better show case of his skills? Since when does it require calling somebody out to make a fight? Manfredo certainly wassn't calling him out. And, in Bute's next fight, he beat Bika probably more easily than Calzaghe did. Bute would have been a good choice for the Spring 2007 defense if Calzaghe was interested in giving the fans a decent fight. Joe would have won, but it would been an interesting and meaningful win.

Even offering that spring 2007 fight to Froch would have been more meaningful than dragging Manfredo to Wales. I suppose you think Froch would have turned that down?

Well first of all it's well known that Beyer wanted nothing to do with any of the top champions at 168 let alone Calzaghe.

He took the Kessler fight for the payday. He was barely able to hold on to the title as it was, almost losing it to nobodies so he took a final payday and travelled to Denmark to basically hand the title over to Kessler. He never wanted anything to do with Calzaghe at any time.

Calzaghe fighting Manfredo made far more business sense than a fight with Bute.

Calzaghe had in mind at this point breaking into the American box office like Hatton and in securing mega fights with Hopkins and Jones, the kind of huge box office stars and legendary fighters that any pro would want on their record.

To take on a completely unknown and potentially dangerous Canadian for absolutely no gain whatsover would have been a stupid move.

He fought Manfredo because he was well known in both America and the US.

You do realise that boxing is a business as well for these guys right?

I mean seriously, if you were Joe and you were looking down the line to career high paydays against American legends and you were looking to build your reputation in the US like Hatton did who would YOU have fought?

From a common sense perspective Manfredo was a great choice, big name in the US, not much risk.

To fight Bute instead of Manfredo would have lost Calzaghe a lot of money. For a start Manfredo was a sellout in the arena and the Americans were interested.

The Americans wouldn't have cared about Bute, Beyer or any other non high profile American.

Why do you think Roy Jones took on Felix Trinidad? Big name, little risk, lots of money, great publicity and a fight he was hugely favoured to win, so not jeapordise a fight with Joe.

Do you think Jones should have faced Dawson or Glen Johnson again instead of Trinidad, choosing to fight a tougher opponent, for far less money and with a real risk of jeapordising future paydays against Calzaghe?

So Kessler should get no credit for his destruction of Beyer because Beyer was just in it for a final payday, right?

If I were Calzaghe and I were looking to a splash and big money in the US, I would have started earlier so I didn't need to fight a guy known from a reality TV show.

If Calzaghe had made some trips to the US earlier in his career, he wouldn't have been in the position he was in trying to get recognized in the States fighting Manfredo. Example - he could have come to the US to fight Sheika or Brewer or even Lacy, but he would have made less $$$ in the short term, no doubt, but he would have been investing building a reputation in the States. The Lacy fight could have been made in Tampa or even New York and it would have been a very good gate. I mean, Hatton came to the US and fought a credible beltholder, moving up in weight. That's seems like the way to do it.

Calzaghe made a choice to ignore the US market until the end of his career and it has cost him. So now he needs the Jones fight as a last big payday.

Calzaghe has almost always taken the most practical, business minded path, risking as little as possible, staying in his comfort zone as much as possible. He had a short term view of things for a long time, and now he's trying to make up for lost time. Roy Jones did the same thing once he got to a certain point, absolutely, and I call him out on it, too. I understand why Calzaghe made the choices he made, but in the end, it has left big gaps. I'm a fan. I'm not a hater. I'm pretty objective about this.

If he fights Chad Dawson after the Jones fight, I will forgive him all his past transgressions against boxing fans and nominate him for a "Brass Balls" award.

[HattonTheHammer]

Some of JCs previous endeavours have never given him the ultimate respect he deserved from those particular wins.

People rant on about the eubank fight like it was the night JC pulled out all the stops ala hatton/tszyu but at the time eubank was a spent force and calzaghe was merely doing what he had been the previous few years only on a bigger stage.

Nobody ever mentions how he blew away byron mitchell, tactically out worked the likes of kessler and completely bullied jeff lacy for 12 solid rounds

[Fenster]

So only third rate fighters were willing to take on Calzaghe? The second rate ones didn't want any part of him? If Beyer was willing to fight Kessler, I doubt he would have been unwilling to fight Calzaghe given the chance.

As for Bute, in April 2007, Calzaghe fought Manfredo. Two months later Bute fought Bika. He had already stopped Salem in 8, with whom Joe went the distance the previous year. Sure, Bute was just a knotch up from prospect at that point, but he was a legit top 10 MWW at the time, if I remember correctly, he was ranked about 6th or 7th then. Why is it crazy to think they could have offered him that fight instead of Manfredo? Are you saying that Bute hadn't done more than Manfredo at that point to deserve a shot? Would that not have been a better fight for the fans and a better show case of his skills? Since when does it require calling somebody out to make a fight? Manfredo certainly wassn't calling him out. And, in Bute's next fight, he beat Bika probably more easily than Calzaghe did. Bute would have been a good choice for the Spring 2007 defense if Calzaghe was interested in giving the fans a decent fight. Joe would have won, but it would been an interesting and meaningful win.

Even offering that spring 2007 fight to Froch would have been more meaningful than dragging Manfredo to Wales. I suppose you think Froch would have turned that down?

Well first of all it's well known that Beyer wanted nothing to do with any of the top champions at 168 let alone Calzaghe.

He took the Kessler fight for the payday. He was barely able to hold on to the title as it was, almost losing it to nobodies so he took a final payday and travelled to Denmark to basically hand the title over to Kessler. He never wanted anything to do with Calzaghe at any time.

Calzaghe fighting Manfredo made far more business sense than a fight with Bute.

Calzaghe had in mind at this point breaking into the American box office like Hatton and in securing mega fights with Hopkins and Jones, the kind of huge box office stars and legendary fighters that any pro would want on their record.

To take on a completely unknown and potentially dangerous Canadian for absolutely no gain whatsover would have been a stupid move.

He fought Manfredo because he was well known in both America and the US.

You do realise that boxing is a business as well for these guys right?

I mean seriously, if you were Joe and you were looking down the line to career high paydays against American legends and you were looking to build your reputation in the US like Hatton did who would YOU have fought?

From a common sense perspective Manfredo was a great choice, big name in the US, not much risk.

To fight Bute instead of Manfredo would have lost Calzaghe a lot of money. For a start Manfredo was a sellout in the arena and the Americans were interested.

The Americans wouldn't have cared about Bute, Beyer or any other non high profile American.

Why do you think Roy Jones took on Felix Trinidad? Big name, little risk, lots of money, great publicity and a fight he was hugely favoured to win, so not jeapordise a fight with Joe.

Do you think Jones should have faced Dawson or Glen Johnson again instead of Trinidad, choosing to fight a tougher opponent, for far less money and with a real risk of jeapordising future paydays against Calzaghe?

So Kessler should get no credit for his destruction of Beyer because Beyer was just in it for a final payday, right?

If I were Calzaghe and I were looking to a splash and big money in the US, I would have started earlier so I didn't need to fight a guy known from a reality TV show.

If Calzaghe had made some trips to the US earlier in his career, he wouldn't have been in the position he was in trying to get recognized in the States fighting Manfredo. Example - he could have come to the US to fight Sheika or Brewer or even Lacy, but he would have made less $$$ in the short term, no doubt, but he would have been investing building a reputation in the States. The Lacy fight could have been made in Tampa or even New York and it would have been a very good gate. I mean, Hatton came to the US and fought a credible beltholder, moving up in weight. That's seems like the way to do it.

Calzaghe made a choice to ignore the US market until the end of his career and it has cost him. So now he needs the Jones fight as a last big payday.

Calzaghe has almost always taken the most practical, business minded path, risking as little as possible, staying in his comfort zone as much as possible. He had a short term view of things for a long time, and now he's trying to make up for lost time. Roy Jones did the same thing once he got to a certain point, absolutely, and I call him out on it, too. I understand why Calzaghe made the choices he made, but in the end, it has left big gaps. I'm a fan. I'm not a hater. I'm pretty objective about this.

If he fights Chad Dawson after the Jones fight, I will forgive him all his past transgressions against boxing fans and nominate him for a "Brass Balls" award.

You're saying a professional boxer that is 45-0, top three ranked P4P, a multi-millionaire, just beat an all-time GREAT and signing out against another - has made BAD career choices?

[ICB]

Well first of all it's well known that Beyer wanted nothing to do with any of the top champions at 168 let alone Calzaghe.

He took the Kessler fight for the payday. He was barely able to hold on to the title as it was, almost losing it to nobodies so he took a final payday and travelled to Denmark to basically hand the title over to Kessler. He never wanted anything to do with Calzaghe at any time.

Calzaghe fighting Manfredo made far more business sense than a fight with Bute.

Calzaghe had in mind at this point breaking into the American box office like Hatton and in securing mega fights with Hopkins and Jones, the kind of huge box office stars and legendary fighters that any pro would want on their record.

To take on a completely unknown and potentially dangerous Canadian for absolutely no gain whatsover would have been a stupid move.

He fought Manfredo because he was well known in both America and the US.

You do realise that boxing is a business as well for these guys right?

I mean seriously, if you were Joe and you were looking down the line to career high paydays against American legends and you were looking to build your reputation in the US like Hatton did who would YOU have fought?

From a common sense perspective Manfredo was a great choice, big name in the US, not much risk.

To fight Bute instead of Manfredo would have lost Calzaghe a lot of money. For a start Manfredo was a sellout in the arena and the Americans were interested.

The Americans wouldn't have cared about Bute, Beyer or any other non high profile American.

Why do you think Roy Jones took on Felix Trinidad? Big name, little risk, lots of money, great publicity and a fight he was hugely favoured to win, so not jeapordise a fight with Joe.

Do you think Jones should have faced Dawson or Glen Johnson again instead of Trinidad, choosing to fight a tougher opponent, for far less money and with a real risk of jeapordising future paydays against Calzaghe?

So Kessler should get no credit for his destruction of Beyer because Beyer was just in it for a final payday, right?

If I were Calzaghe and I were looking to a splash and big money in the US, I would have started earlier so I didn't need to fight a guy known from a reality TV show.

If Calzaghe had made some trips to the US earlier in his career, he wouldn't have been in the position he was in trying to get recognized in the States fighting Manfredo. Example - he could have come to the US to fight Sheika or Brewer or even Lacy, but he would have made less $$$ in the short term, no doubt, but he would have been investing building a reputation in the States. The Lacy fight could have been made in Tampa or even New York and it would have been a very good gate. I mean, Hatton came to the US and fought a credible beltholder, moving up in weight. That's seems like the way to do it.

Calzaghe made a choice to ignore the US market until the end of his career and it has cost him. So now he needs the Jones fight as a last big payday.

Calzaghe has almost always taken the most practical, business minded path, risking as little as possible, staying in his comfort zone as much as possible. He had a short term view of things for a long time, and now he's trying to make up for lost time. Roy Jones did the same thing once he got to a certain point, absolutely, and I call him out on it, too. I understand why Calzaghe made the choices he made, but in the end, it has left big gaps. I'm a fan. I'm not a hater. I'm pretty objective about this.

If he fights Chad Dawson after the Jones fight, I will forgive him all his past transgressions against boxing fans and nominate him for a "Brass Balls" award.

You're saying a professional boxer that is 45-0, top three ranked P4P, a multi-millionaire, just beat an all-time GREAT and signing out against another - has made BAD career choices?

He could of gone to the USA alot earlier and he could of moved up, to LHW years ago and have been a much bigger star, and made alot more money than he has now FACT.

Another FACT is that he was virtually unknown fighter outside the UK before the Jeff Lacy fight. Which means him and his promoter wern't making the right choices.

The FACT that it has taken this amount of time for Joe Calzaghe, to only start getting a name outside the UK should tell you something.

Take Nigel Benn for example he went to the USA and took risks, against dangerous opposition like Doug DeWitt, Iran Barkley, thus making him the legend he is now. Thus getting the big fights and recognition in the USA in only 3 years of being a professional fighter.

It took Joe Calzaghe 13 years and 18 title defenses just to get a name, in the USA do you understand now ?

[Fenster]

So Kessler should get no credit for his destruction of Beyer because Beyer was just in it for a final payday, right?

If I were Calzaghe and I were looking to a splash and big money in the US, I would have started earlier so I didn't need to fight a guy known from a reality TV show.

If Calzaghe had made some trips to the US earlier in his career, he wouldn't have been in the position he was in trying to get recognized in the States fighting Manfredo. Example - he could have come to the US to fight Sheika or Brewer or even Lacy, but he would have made less $$$ in the short term, no doubt, but he would have been investing building a reputation in the States. The Lacy fight could have been made in Tampa or even New York and it would have been a very good gate. I mean, Hatton came to the US and fought a credible beltholder, moving up in weight. That's seems like the way to do it.

Calzaghe made a choice to ignore the US market until the end of his career and it has cost him. So now he needs the Jones fight as a last big payday.

Calzaghe has almost always taken the most practical, business minded path, risking as little as possible, staying in his comfort zone as much as possible. He had a short term view of things for a long time, and now he's trying to make up for lost time. Roy Jones did the same thing once he got to a certain point, absolutely, and I call him out on it, too. I understand why Calzaghe made the choices he made, but in the end, it has left big gaps. I'm a fan. I'm not a hater. I'm pretty objective about this.

If he fights Chad Dawson after the Jones fight, I will forgive him all his past transgressions against boxing fans and nominate him for a "Brass Balls" award.

You're saying a professional boxer that is 45-0, top three ranked P4P, a multi-millionaire, just beat an all-time GREAT and signing out against another - has made BAD career choices?

He could of gone to the USA alot earlier and he could of moved up, to LHW years ago and have been a much bigger star, and made alot more money than he has now FACT.

Another FACT is that he was virtually unknown fighter outside the UK before the Jeff Lacy fight. Which means him and his promoter wern't making the right choices.

The FACT that it has taken this amount of time for Joe Calzaghe, to only start getting a name outside the UK should tell you something.

Take Nigel Benn for example he went to the USA and took risks, against dangerous opposition like Doug DeWitt, Iran Barkley, thus making him the legend he is now. Thus getting the big fights and recognition in the USA in only 3 years of being a professional fighter.

It took Joe Calzaghe 13 years and 18 title defenses just to get a name, in the USA do you understand now ?

PROVE that moving up in weight and going to the US earlier would have made him more money and a bigger star?

[NUCLEAR BULL]

the truth is if people are debateing calzaghes record he only has himself to blame and no one else.............. ricky hatton made more money from one fight then joe had made in his whole carreer which says it all............ joe alwys took the easier fights........... the fight with hopkins was said to be made years earlier but failded........ they blames hopkins.......... the fight with roy jones was said to be made years earlier but failed.........they blamed roy jones.........pavlik was said to be offered the fight but it failed............they blamed pavlik.............the fight with sven ottka never happened they blamed ottka...........he twice palled out the fight with glen johnson siteing injury when johnson said he wants money upfront to set a 3rd date for the fight joe pulled out alltogether WHY did he know he'd get injured again before hand............but again they blamed johnson............ the fights with reid and woodhall happened only after they had both been knocked out or beaten by and old man and where somewhat passed there primes............. you look and you'll see that 95% of his fights have been where theres an angle that has tiped things largely in calzages favour.............also lets not forget he held the wbo belt for 11 years a belt which even now at its higest ever holding is the number 4 belt before it was nothing more then a belt to hold your jeans up with

i used to be a fan of joes but there came a point where i had enough of his bull.......... lets face it he was only seen as a world champion in britan, no one knew who he was anywhere else..................sven ottka was a decent fighter nothing more but he was known as WORLD CHAMPION because he held the wba and ibf belts...... robin reid, charles brewer, glen johnson, bryon michell all had the balls the go fight him but joe refused to giveing us his famous.HE'S NOT IN MY LEAGUE, THERES NO INTEREST IN FIGHTING HIM so insted he fights guys whos name we cant even remember.......... a chance to win the wba, ibf belts and he says no thanks i'll fight this other guy.... for less money whi no one knows

he's a coward alwys was always will be............ even now he only takes fights with men he sees as past there best

[Andre]

If he losses this one, dont worry too much, Mundine is bound to call him out.

[Dark Lord Al]

the truth is if people are debateing calzaghes record he only has himself to blame and no one else.............. ricky hatton made more money from one fight then joe had made in his whole carreer which says it all............ joe alwys took the easier fights........... the fight with hopkins was said to be made years earlier but failded........ they blames hopkins.......... the fight with roy jones was said to be made years earlier but failed.........they blamed roy jones.........pavlik was said to be offered the fight but it failed............they blamed pavlik.............the fight with sven ottka never happened they blamed ottka...........he twice palled out the fight with glen johnson siteing injury when johnson said he wants money upfront to set a 3rd date for the fight joe pulled out alltogether WHY did he know he'd get injured again before hand............but again they blamed johnson............ the fights with reid and woodhall happened only after they had both been knocked out or beaten by and old man and where somewhat passed there primes............. you look and you'll see that 95% of his fights have been where theres an angle that has tiped things largely in calzages favour.............also lets not forget he held the wbo belt for 11 years a belt which even now at its higest ever holding is the number 4 belt before it was nothing more then a belt to hold your jeans up with

i used to be a fan of joes but there came a point where i had enough of his bull.......... lets face it he was only seen as a world champion in britan, no one knew who he was anywhere else..................sven ottka was a decent fighter nothing more but he was known as WORLD CHAMPION because he held the wba and ibf belts...... robin reid, charles brewer, glen johnson, bryon michell all had the balls the go fight him but joe refused to giveing us his famous.HE'S NOT IN MY LEAGUE, THERES NO INTEREST IN FIGHTING HIM so insted he fights guys whos name we cant even remember.......... a chance to win the wba, ibf belts and he says no thanks i'll fight this other guy.... for less money whi no one knows

he's a coward alwys was always will be............ even now he only takes fights with men he sees as past there best

[antimoron]

the truth is if people are debateing calzaghes record he only has himself to blame and no one else.............. ricky hatton made more money from one fight then joe had made in his whole carreer which says it all............ joe alwys took the easier fights........... the fight with hopkins was said to be made years earlier but failded........ they blames hopkins.......... the fight with roy jones was said to be made years earlier but failed.........they blamed roy jones.........pavlik was said to be offered the fight but it failed............they blamed pavlik.............the fight with sven ottka never happened they blamed ottka...........he twice palled out the fight with glen johnson siteing injury when johnson said he wants money upfront to set a 3rd date for the fight joe pulled out alltogether WHY did he know he'd get injured again before hand............but again they blamed johnson............ the fights with reid and woodhall happened only after they had both been knocked out or beaten by and old man and where somewhat passed there primes............. you look and you'll see that 95% of his fights have been where theres an angle that has tiped things largely in calzages favour.............also lets not forget he held the wbo belt for 11 years a belt which even now at its higest ever holding is the number 4 belt before it was nothing more then a belt to hold your jeans up with

i used to be a fan of joes but there came a point where i had enough of his bull.......... lets face it he was only seen as a world champion in britan, no one knew who he was anywhere else..................sven ottka was a decent fighter nothing more but he was known as WORLD CHAMPION because he held the wba and ibf belts...... robin reid, charles brewer, glen johnson, bryon michell all had the balls the go fight him but joe refused to giveing us his famous.HE'S NOT IN MY LEAGUE, THERES NO INTEREST IN FIGHTING HIM so insted he fights guys whos name we cant even remember.......... a chance to win the wba, ibf belts and he says no thanks i'll fight this other guy.... for less money whi no one knows

he's a coward alwys was always will be............ even now he only takes fights with men he sees as past there best

Where is Joe from 1998-2006?