The Word Shot in relation to Jones is used way to loosely

[JT Rock]

so in most opinions Roy was deemed shot after the the Johnson KO.

A shot fighter by the way I understand it as a fighter showing drastic decline in what he once was able to do making it physically impossible to compete at the highest level he once could.

Not being able to pull the trigger

Plodding

Poor reflexes

Horrible stamina

pushing punches

lethargic like handspeed

ETC..

I said it all along, Jones biggest achilles heel since the Tarver and Johnson KO's has been confidence and adjusting to 175 again.. I dont want to get into the factual and scientific toll it takes on your body to slash 25lbs of muscle off your frame in such a short period of time

...

The Tarver KO was over two years after the Ruiz fight. The weight shouldn't have been that big a deal by then. Besides, I thought Jones looked pretty sharp in that fight. He was outboxing Tarver. He just got caught by a perfect punch

Sorry dude it was 13 months. and yea losing that much muscle without natural atrophy in 8 months and it will effect you, especially if your elite level athlete

[JT Rock]

plus Joe is 36 and I guarantee he wont be a 70 plus punch a round at light heavy... Joe is getting older too

[ICB]

I agree with some of what your saying JT, but my two main concern's is that RJJ doesn't have the stamina or the legs anymore. He constantly lays on the ropes and even when he had Tito, Hanshaw, badly hurt in his comeback fights.

He didn't pull the trigger and i don't know why, was it stamina issues ? or was he worried about being clocked on the chin ? i really don't know but some good points for RJJ, is that he is the bigger man. He is still faster than Joe Calzaghe, and he still has a good straight right hand lead which is Joe Calzaghe's biggest weakness.

But the point is can RJJ pull the trigger enough, and will his stamina hold up to the constant pressure of Joe Calzaghe ?

[zhubin]

I agree with some of what your saying JT, but my two main concern's is that RJJ doesn't have the stamina or the legs anymore. He constantly lays on the ropes and even when he had Tito, Hanshaw, badly hurt in his comeback fights.

He didn't pull the trigger and i don't know why, was it stamina issues ? or was he worried about being clocked on the chin ? i really don't know but some good points for RJJ, is that he is the bigger man. He is still faster than Joe Calzaghe, and he still has a good straight right hand lead which is Joe Calzaghe's biggest weakness.

But the point is can RJJ pull the trigger enough, and will his stamina hold up to the constant pressure of Joe Calzaghe ?

Regaining great stamina and having the ability to let your punches go...very tough at nearly 40. Not to mention his great reflexes have slipped considerably...so he gets hit more (even Tito was able to land). I just think it's near impossible for ANY fighter to be the same after brutal knockouts (especially at Roy's age). I hope i am wrong.

[RozzySean]

I agree with some of what your saying JT, but my two main concern's is that RJJ doesn't have the stamina or the legs anymore. He constantly lays on the ropes and even when he had Tito, Hanshaw, badly hurt in his comeback fights.

He didn't pull the trigger and i don't know why, was it stamina issues ? or was he worried about being clocked on the chin ? i really don't know but some good points for RJJ, is that he is the bigger man. He is still faster than Joe Calzaghe, and he still has a good straight right hand lead which is Joe Calzaghe's biggest weakness.

But the point is can RJJ pull the trigger enough, and will his stamina hold up to the constant pressure of Joe Calzaghe ?

Regaining great stamina and having the ability to let your punches go...very tough at nearly 40. Not to mention his great reflexes have slipped considerably...so he gets hit more (even Tito was able to land). I just think it's near impossible for ANY fighter to be the same after brutal knockouts (especially at Roy's age). I hope i am wrong.

I thought Tito's best work was to the body. He put earmuffs on a lot and relied on his hands and elbows to block more, compared to his younger self who would slip and counter.

On bright spot I saw in the Tito fight was a commitment to the jab replacing wild lead left hooks. His fundamentals look pretty good.

[CGM]

so in most opinions Roy was deemed shot after the the Johnson KO.

A shot fighter by the way I understand it as a fighter showing drastic decline in what he once was able to do making it physically impossible to compete at the highest level he once could.

Not being able to pull the trigger

Plodding

Poor reflexes

Horrible stamina

pushing punches

lethargic like handspeed

ETC..

I said it all along, Jones biggest achilles heel since the Tarver and Johnson KO's has been confidence and adjusting to 175 again.. I dont want to get into the factual and scientific toll it takes on your body to slash 25lbs of muscle off your frame in such a short period of time

...

The Tarver KO was over two years after the Ruiz fight. The weight shouldn't have been that big a deal by then. Besides, I thought Jones looked pretty sharp in that fight. He was outboxing Tarver. He just got caught by a perfect punch

Sorry dude it was 13 months. and yea losing that much muscle without natural atrophy in 8 months and it will effect you, especially if your elite level athlete

OK, My bad, yes I must have been mixed up with the third fight. OK, I still say that Jones looked OK in the 2nd fight. If the weight thing was still afecting him, it wasn't affecting him that much. The speed was there, he was moving well, landing some fast sharp punches, and he was outboxing Tarver. He just got caught. That's the reason he lost, not the weight loss. Of course Roy would probably like to have us believe the contrary.

[AdamGB]

Watch that video from about 1:40... he's picking tarver off from the ropes and then turns him onto them.... then at 1:55 he just backs away from him... that's not being shot... it's not having the confidence to step into the pocket and finish the job.

No body is going to deny that Roy doesn't have the physical attributes that he once had, or that he is the under dog in this fight... but he is far from shot and only Roy knows what he is taking into the ring mentally this time...

[JT Rock]

Watch that video from about 1:40... he's picking tarver off from the ropes and then turns him onto them.... then at 1:55 he just backs away from him... that's not being shot... it's not having the confidence to step into the pocket and finish the job.

No body is going to deny that Roy doesn't have the physical attributes that he once had, or that he is the under dog in this fight... but he is far from shot and only Roy knows what he is taking into the ring mentally this time...

Excellent post

[AdamGB]

cheers, won't let me rep you :-/

[mrodub]

Anyone who completly counts roy out has no clue about boxing,he only needs to show a few seconds of his old self and that could change a result even against someone as good as calzge.
I think Calzage will win but i think he would be a fool to take one of the all time greats past it or not lightly.

[SaltyBacon]

he didn't look good in the first tarver figh imo,
but he's not shot someone who shot is holyfield or morales

he still has the speed and also experienced and prime jones would of won those fights

[the_PRODIGY]

it just happened that he got clocked by tarver.lost his confidence,,he aint got any confidence on his chin no more against glen johnson.it affected his usual laid back reckless abandon smooove style..thats it.hes far from bein shot.i think he slowly got his confidence back on his last few fights.there will be glimpses of the old roy jones jr against calzaghe.and joe can only hope those are short glimpses.

[JT Rock]

Im watching Jones/Tarver 1 everyone was pointing out how Tarver was able to do work on Jones while he was on the ropes and how that would be disastorous against Calzaghe.. True that Tarver worked him over in the 1st 2 rounds getting in a few solid punches thru the guard, but as Jones started countering with lead rights to the body and head as well as countering the jab with lefthooks, Tarver was less eager to mix it up with Jones as Jones was hurting him and getting him to think twice about throwing and lead Antonio to be less commital on the ropes for fear of what was coming back..

I think all sensible parties will agree that Tarver is a bigger puncher than Calzaghe.. when Joe starts the locomotive of punches its not as effective if a Tarver starts thudding away at you. I cant help but feel that Roy has picked up his defense and ability to fight off the ropes that Joe is gonna get duffed up real bad with counters if he thinks he is gonna try to do a Manfredo on him.

Also we saw him get reckless against Bhop while he had him on the ropes and got shook really bad with 5 sec left that in the 7th round where he lost his legs because he was moving his hands and not really punching, if a slow Nard can slip in these hard right counters in a drop Joe and shake him bad than Jones laser like presicion is gonna present real problems, I think he is going to stifle Joe down the stretch by investing in the body and breaking him down and making him less eager because of counterpunching