Y'all must o' forgot...

[bambamdaddio]

Whatever the ifs and where fors Jones took the fight at this stage of his career in his own backyard and got pony knocked out of him .. and woulda done anytime he fought against JC..

[Greig]

Whatever the ifs and where fors Jones took the fight at this stage of his career in his own backyard and got pony knocked out of him .. and woulda done anytime he fought against JC..

Incorrect. Jones Circa 1995-2000 knocks the living shit out of Joe.

[CFH]

Whatever the ifs and where fors Jones took the fight at this stage of his career in his own backyard and got pony knocked out of him .. and woulda done anytime he fought against JC..

Incorrect. Jones Circa 1995-2000 knocks the living shit out of Joe.

I agree, though I do think at times JC would've made it a difficult fight for him. Not that that takes anything away from Calzaghe, he's undoubtedly a great fighter.

[Greig]

Whatever the ifs and where fors Jones took the fight at this stage of his career in his own backyard and got pony knocked out of him .. and woulda done anytime he fought against JC..

Incorrect. Jones Circa 1995-2000 knocks the living shit out of Joe.

I agree, though I do think at times JC would've made it a difficult fight for him. Not that that takes anything away from Calzaghe, he's undoubtedly a great fighter.

Of course he is. I am a big fan of Calzaghe, he is an all time great.

But I honestly believe that RJJ in his prime was about the the third or fourth best fighter ever. SRR, Ali and Louis are better IMO.

HOWEVER, we'll never know that for sure because he should have been more proactive in securing legacy defining fights when he was in his prime.

[CFH]

Incorrect. Jones Circa 1995-2000 knocks the living shit out of Joe.

I agree, though I do think at times JC would've made it a difficult fight for him. Not that that takes anything away from Calzaghe, he's undoubtedly a great fighter.

Of course he is. I am a big fan of Calzaghe, he is an all time great.

But I honestly believe that RJJ in his prime was about the the third or fourth best fighter ever. SRR, Ali and Louis are better IMO.

HOWEVER, we'll never know that for sure because he should have been more proactive in securing legacy defining fights when he was in his prime.

I'm not sure if I would consider Calzaghe an ATG. Skill-wise? Probably, but my initial thought is that I still find his level of competition to be below that of an ATG. I'd really have to think more about it to give a definate answer as to whether I'd consider him an ATG, but I would certainly consider him a great fighter.

[Greig]

I agree, though I do think at times JC would've made it a difficult fight for him. Not that that takes anything away from Calzaghe, he's undoubtedly a great fighter.

Of course he is. I am a big fan of Calzaghe, he is an all time great.

But I honestly believe that RJJ in his prime was about the the third or fourth best fighter ever. SRR, Ali and Louis are better IMO.

HOWEVER, we'll never know that for sure because he should have been more proactive in securing legacy defining fights when he was in his prime.

I'm not sure if I would consider Calzaghe an ATG. Skill-wise? Probably, but my initial thought is that I still find his level of competition to be below that of an ATG. I'd really have to think more about it to give a definate answer as to whether I'd consider him an ATG, but I would certainly consider him a great fighter.

I'd

He's an ATG because he reigned at SM for a decade, fought and beat two legends on American soil (both past their best IMO) and, if he's true to his word, will retire undefeated.

Pretty good resume.

[CFH]

Of course he is. I am a big fan of Calzaghe, he is an all time great.

But I honestly believe that RJJ in his prime was about the the third or fourth best fighter ever. SRR, Ali and Louis are better IMO.

HOWEVER, we'll never know that for sure because he should have been more proactive in securing legacy defining fights when he was in his prime.

I'm not sure if I would consider Calzaghe an ATG. Skill-wise? Probably, but my initial thought is that I still find his level of competition to be below that of an ATG. I'd really have to think more about it to give a definate answer as to whether I'd consider him an ATG, but I would certainly consider him a great fighter.

I'd

He's an ATG because he reigned at SM for a decade, fought and beat two legends on American soil (both past their best IMO) and, if he's true to his word, will retire undefeated.

Pretty good resume.

His biggest wins, IMO are Eubank, Hopkins (disputed), and Kessler. I'm just not sure that qualifies him as an ATG. I'm not saying it doesn't, just that initially I'm not so sure.

You make a very good point about him dominating the division though, I'm starting to think that he merits ATG status based on that and his skill level...

I'm afraid I don't have a very firm opinion one way or the other on the subject, makes for a boring debate I guess

[Taeth]

Incorrect. Jones Circa 1995-2000 knocks the living shit out of Joe.

I agree, though I do think at times JC would've made it a difficult fight for him. Not that that takes anything away from Calzaghe, he's undoubtedly a great fighter.

Of course he is. I am a big fan of Calzaghe, he is an all time great.

But I honestly believe that RJJ in his prime was about the the third or fourth best fighter ever. SRR, Ali and Louis are better IMO.

HOWEVER, we'll never know that for sure because he should have been more proactive in securing legacy defining fights when he was in his prime.

I think Roy beats a lot of the top guys inthe p4p argument if they fought against eachother, but He didn't fight the type of names some of these guys did. I think if you are comparing primes he is a top 10 p4p, but being a great fighter means more than that. After this fight I definitely have Hopkins moving ahead of Roy on the p4p ATG list.

[Greig]

I agree, though I do think at times JC would've made it a difficult fight for him. Not that that takes anything away from Calzaghe, he's undoubtedly a great fighter.

Of course he is. I am a big fan of Calzaghe, he is an all time great.

But I honestly believe that RJJ in his prime was about the the third or fourth best fighter ever. SRR, Ali and Louis are better IMO.

HOWEVER, we'll never know that for sure because he should have been more proactive in securing legacy defining fights when he was in his prime.

I think Roy beats a lot of the top guys inthe p4p argument if they fought against eachother, but He didn't fight the type of names some of these guys did. I think if you are comparing primes he is a top 10 p4p, but being a great fighter means more than that. After this fight I definitely have Hopkins moving ahead of Roy on the p4p ATG list.

I must disagree Taeth.

For a start, Jones has a win over Hopkins.

Second, Jones won belts at 160, 168, 175 and heavyweight. B-Hop never did that.

Third, a lot of Hopkins biggest wins were against guys he had distinct size and weight advantages over (DLH, Winky, Pavlik). Lets not forget that at light heavyweight his resume consists of a shot Tarver and a bunch of guys moving up.

No, B-Hop is a great fighter, but Roy is greater IMO.

[BIG H]

I'll start by saying I sincerely believe a prime RJJ beats Prime Calzaghe
BUT comments about RJJ being way past his best, whilst being right, don't also take into account that the same could be said for Calzaghe. Alright he's not 'way' past his best but he is definitely not the guy that beat Lacy. 2006 Lacy hits harder than today's version of Jones or B-hop and he caught Clzaghe clean a few times in the early rounds a dn Calzaghe never went down like he did in his last 2 fights (I have only see the KD so far in the RJJ fight - watching it later) But people say Jomnes is shot, because he has been KOed twice, well who's fault is that, he shouldn't have got KOed twice should he , Calzaghe hasn't ever been knocked out, he gets up and wins. Apart from the big 2 losses RJJ wasn't in many really hard fights was he, so was 39 with 55 fights, Calzaghe was 36 with 45 fights, they are both past their best, admidetly Jones more so than JC, but that's because he's had a couple of hidings against 2 'Good' not 'Great' fighters. Again I will say imo Jones Prime for prime beats JC, but let's not think that this was a prime 28 year old that just beat RJJ either.

[intoccabile]

Of course he is. I am a big fan of Calzaghe, he is an all time great.

But I honestly believe that RJJ in his prime was about the the third or fourth best fighter ever. SRR, Ali and Louis are better IMO.

HOWEVER, we'll never know that for sure because he should have been more proactive in securing legacy defining fights when he was in his prime.

I think Roy beats a lot of the top guys inthe p4p argument if they fought against eachother, but He didn't fight the type of names some of these guys did. I think if you are comparing primes he is a top 10 p4p, but being a great fighter means more than that. After this fight I definitely have Hopkins moving ahead of Roy on the p4p ATG list.

I must disagree Taeth.

For a start, Jones has a win over Hopkins.

Second, Jones won belts at 160, 168, 175 and heavyweight. B-Hop never did that.

Third, a lot of Hopkins biggest wins were against guys he had distinct size and weight advantages over (DLH, Winky, Pavlik). Lets not forget that at light heavyweight his resume consists of a shot Tarver and a bunch of guys moving up.

No, B-Hop is a great fighter, but Roy is greater IMO.

I disagree here.
Styles make fights, for one.
You can't use a fighters loss against someone against them.
Hopkins would defeat more opposition/styles than Jones would.
That, imo, makes him p4p the better fighter. Just because roy had to style
to beat hopkins doesn't mean he's suddenly better because he holds a victory over him.


If 1 beats 3 - 10. But loses to 2, and 2 loses to 4, 5 and 6, who 1 beat.
Then who is the better fighter? No question, 1 is.

Also. Let's keep in mind hopkins was still perfecting his craft when he fought Roy. Since then Hopkins had gotten better and better with each fight, which would possibly indicate he wasn't quite primed yet? While Roy didn't get any better, just began moving up in weights.

Just my thoughts on the whole " Roy beat hopkins, he has to be better ATG ranked ".

Now.. One of the reasons Hopkins imo goes down better ranked than Roy is because other than his jones fight you can argue that hopkins has never been beaten. Hes also never been so much as scratched. His incredible title reign, number of defenses, and the level that he fights at at such an old age. These are all enormous feats and imo hold equal weight to roys accomplishments.

We see how great hopkins is at 175. Now that Roy lost his next and final fight may be at Heavyweight. People can easily argue that Hopkins could have gone up in weight classes and won the straps too, just like roy did. It's a very good arguement too considering how beautifuly he's made the transition to the new weight at such an old age.. so no question he could have done it then aswell.. but was intent on making history in the midweight division and not moving up in weight classes.

There are so many variables to these guys careers, we could argue forever.
imo, it's Roys prime skill, multi-weight championships that make him great.
Versus Hopkins resume, Midweight accomplishments, and level of comp at an old age.

People will always argue that hopkins was bigger than his best wins.
But atleast with hopkins, unlike roy, we don't have to look at his prime and rank him
based on what he did years ago. With hopkins, we can judge him by his past AND his present. Because the man is STILL great.

Roy has a great past. Hopkins has a great past, present, and maybe even future if he's
serious about the move to heavyweight.

Roy is done.. he's gotten all of his badges and achievements out of the way.
Hopkins is actually still going strong. If he hasn't surpassed Roy in ATG rank already,
then he will.

[Markusdarkus]

Whatever the ifs and where fors Jones took the fight at this stage of his career in his own backyard and got pony knocked out of him .. and woulda done anytime he fought against JC..

Incorrect. Jones Circa 1995-2000 knocks the living shit out of Joe.

BAN!

[Greig]

Yeah, ban me

A past his best Chris Eubank (who admitted he was scared of Roy Jones) gave Calzaghe one of his toughest fights.

You can ban blokes for stating FACT.

[Snakey]

Yeah, ban me

A past his best Chris Eubank (who admitted he was scared of Roy Jones) gave Calzaghe one of his toughest fights.

You can ban blokes for stating FACT.

HAHAHA ban you....ban you, someone might just tell markus that guys that have been here longer then two seconds dont get banned that easily. Dickheads who have been hear for two seconds do

[CFH]

Whatever the ifs and where fors Jones took the fight at this stage of his career in his own backyard and got pony knocked out of him .. and woulda done anytime he fought against JC..

Incorrect. Jones Circa 1995-2000 knocks the living shit out of Joe.

BAN!

I can see one coming