Joe Calzaghe is obviously a great fighter...

[Taeth]

I also didn't see Hopkins change anything in his rematch against Taylor. I think he should have come forwad more, look at the trouble Bika gave Calzaghe in parts of that fight. Calzaghe gets even less power out of his punches going backwards, and he doesn't as many straight punches. Hopkins in his prime wasn't just a cerebral fighter like Roy Jones Jr or James Toney were, He was a physical beast that would rough you up, and still have the technique to outbox you, I think he showed that to perfection against Echol, even when he badly pulled his shoulder he was still totally owned Echols, and that is a much worse injury IMO that even a broken hand because you can still punch effectively with a broken hand, but you can't with a badly hurt shoulder.

[intoccabile]

I also didn't see Hopkins change anything in his rematch against Taylor. I think he should have come forwad more, look at the trouble Bika gave Calzaghe in parts of that fight. Calzaghe gets even less power out of his punches going backwards, and he doesn't as many straight punches. Hopkins in his prime wasn't just a cerebral fighter like Roy Jones Jr or James Toney were, He was a physical beast that would rough you up, and still have the technique to outbox you, I think he showed that to perfection against Echol, even when he badly pulled his shoulder he was still totally owned Echols, and that is a much worse injury IMO that even a broken hand because you can still punch effectively with a broken hand, but you can't with a badly hurt shoulder.

Hopkins thought he won the fight, thats the problem.
Hopkins is very stubborn. He's usually right when he assumes that he wins a round because he landed the cleaner more effective punches but it seems that judges nowdays respect offense and not defense.

Hopkins has learned the hard way. His 2 losses to taylor then a loss to calzaghe. He learned after that third strike that he isn't winning when he thinks he is. Activity is killing him. Hopkins clearly said during training for calzaghe that "He throws alot of punches but how many land? I will land the more effective ". He said it after the fght too. and he said he felt thats why he won the taylor fight.

Hopkins had yet to realize that his theory, although technically right, wasn't working on the judges. He clearly said after the Kelly fight that he knows what the fans want and what he has to do to win now and will be looking to hurt people for now on. It took 3 strikes, but he realises the old plan no longer works. He'd fight a more active fight against Calzaghe IMO in a re.

Who wins? Not sure...but he'd definitely switch it up a bit.

[Taeth]

I think it would still be a close fight, I can't ignore the fact Bernard gassed late. The one greatest quality I see in Calzaghe is his toughness. He is fast, but not like prime Roy quick, he had power, but not great power, but it takes a lot of toughness to throw that many punches without worrying about what is incoming. He reminds me of a amateur fighter who is able to fight that way for 12 rounds.

[intoccabile]

I think it would still be a close fight, I can't ignore the fact Bernard gassed late. The one greatest quality I see in Calzaghe is his toughness. He is fast, but not like prime Roy quick, he had power, but not great power, but it takes a lot of toughness to throw that many punches without worrying about what is incoming. He reminds me of a amateur fighter who is able to fight that way for 12 rounds.

Hopkins getting tired can be a big issue, but just a few more punches here and there is enough to persuade the panel imo. Plus, with 3 different judges than before, he could very possibly fight the same fight as before and eek a decision in HIS favor. His style is pretty dependant on what type of judge is at ringside.

[Kev]

The thing with Calzaghe is though he has ALWAYS risen to the challenge and coped with adversity.

It's all very well to state categorically that Hopkins, Jones, Toney etc in their primes would have dominated him or beat him easily based on Joes flaws, but the think that has to be taken into account is that when Joe has had a flaw exposed, i.e dropped against Hopkins, Jones and Mitchell, or rocked by a Kessler uppercut, he's ALWAYS found another level and then pretty much gone on to either dominate the rest of the fight, or else clearly take over.

So whose to say that if Toney kept countering him he wouldn't be able to rise to another level, change his gameplan and a find a way to overcome that obstacle?

That's not me saying he would do that, I'm just saying that we cannot say that he wouldn't.

We have all seen Hopkins, Jones and Toney fall short, we have never seen Calzaghe fall short.

So you can't just write him off as having no chance, becuase it's just not realistic.

I can't see any fighter having an easy time with a prime Calzaghe.

The guy just doesn't know how to lose, and has a warriors instinct. He actually has more of a winning mentality than Jones, Toney and Hopkins imo. When push comes to shove in a fight all three of those guys have lost fights becuase they didn't push and weren't prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins, Jones and Toney at the end of the day have all been in fights where they didn't win because they were not prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins in both fights against Taylor, also against Calzaghe

Jones against Tarver in the third fight

Toney in various fights throughout his career when he's been lackluster and lost uninspired decisions.


Joe however clearly has a mindset where he'd rather get sparked in a fight than not give everything. He's defiant, he's always a 100% relentless come forward fighter. He always finds another level and never settles in a fight, he keeps going to win regardless.

A good analogy I think would be gambling.

Hopkins, Jones, Toney are all to a greater or lesser extent hedgebetters, they bet carefully and they would never stick all their chips on the table and risk losing it all.

Calzaghe is like the guy who goes into a casino and if he's on a losing run will just say 'right I'm sticking everything red next time, my house my car everything.

This kind of mentality he has would I think inevitebaly lead to him lucking out at some time, and getting ko'd but it would also win him fights that in the same situation a Hopkins, Toney or Jones would settle to lose.

That's why he's a great fighter imo. He's prepared to take risks in the ring and really go out on his shield. Most fighters in reality are not prepared to always take it that far.

[ICB]

The thing with Calzaghe is though he has ALWAYS risen to the challenge and coped with adversity.

It's all very well to state categorically that Hopkins, Jones, Toney etc in their primes would have dominated him or beat him easily based on Joes flaws, but the think that has to be taken into account is that when Joe has had a flaw exposed, i.e dropped against Hopkins, Jones and Mitchell, or rocked by a Kessler uppercut, he's ALWAYS found another level and then pretty much gone on to either dominate the rest of the fight, or else clearly take over.

So whose to say that if Toney kept countering him he wouldn't be able to rise to another level, change his gameplan and a find a way to overcome that obstacle?

That's not me saying he would do that, I'm just saying that we cannot say that he wouldn't.

We have all seen Hopkins, Jones and Toney fall short, we have never seen Calzaghe fall short.

So you can't just write him off as having no chance, becuase it's just not realistic.

I can't see any fighter having an easy time with a prime Calzaghe.

The guy just doesn't know how to lose, and has a warriors instinct. He actually has more of a winning mentality than Jones, Toney and Hopkins imo. When push comes to shove in a fight all three of those guys have lost fights becuase they didn't push and weren't prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins, Jones and Toney at the end of the day have all been in fights where they didn't win because they were not prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins in both fights against Taylor, also against Calzaghe

Jones against Tarver in the third fight

Toney in various fights throughout his career when he's been lackluster and lost uninspired decisions.


Joe however clearly has a mindset where he'd rather get sparked in a fight than not give everything. He's defiant, he's always a 100% relentless come forward fighter. He always finds another level and never settles in a fight, he keeps going to win regardless.

A good analogy I think would be gambling.

Hopkins, Jones, Toney are all to a greater or lesser extent hedgebetters, they bet carefully and they would never stick all their chips on the table and risk losing it all.

Calzaghe is like the guy who goes into a casino and if he's on a losing run will just say 'right I'm sticking everything red next time, my house my car everything.

This kind of mentality he has would I think inevitebaly lead to him lucking out at some time, and getting ko'd but it would also win him fights that in the same situation a Hopkins, Toney or Jones would settle to lose.

That's why he's a great fighter imo. He's prepared to take risks in the ring and really go out on his shield. Most fighters in reality are not prepared to always take it that far.

Joe Calzaghe hasn't always been able to adapt. As soon as Robin Reid forced Joe Calzaghe on the backfoot he never adapted and he couldn't avoid the right hand.

I don't care what anyone says i still say Robin Reid beat Joe Calzaghe, the punchstats were almost dead even. Except Robin Reid was landing the much more hurtful shots, he was actually rocking Joe Calzaghe's head back which no other Joe Calzaghe opponent has ever done.

I actually don't think Joe Calzaghe can adapt to rough fighters, thats why he struggled in the Bika, Salem, Reid, fights.

I do agree with your other comments though Joe Calzaghe is a great fighter, and is a very competitive person and he doesn't know the word lose.

[intoccabile]

The thing with Calzaghe is though he has ALWAYS risen to the challenge and coped with adversity.

It's all very well to state categorically that Hopkins, Jones, Toney etc in their primes would have dominated him or beat him easily based on Joes flaws, but the think that has to be taken into account is that when Joe has had a flaw exposed, i.e dropped against Hopkins, Jones and Mitchell, or rocked by a Kessler uppercut, he's ALWAYS found another level and then pretty much gone on to either dominate the rest of the fight, or else clearly take over.

So whose to say that if Toney kept countering him he wouldn't be able to rise to another level, change his gameplan and a find a way to overcome that obstacle?

That's not me saying he would do that, I'm just saying that we cannot say that he wouldn't.

We have all seen Hopkins, Jones and Toney fall short, we have never seen Calzaghe fall short.

So you can't just write him off as having no chance, becuase it's just not realistic.

I can't see any fighter having an easy time with a prime Calzaghe.

The guy just doesn't know how to lose, and has a warriors instinct. He actually has more of a winning mentality than Jones, Toney and Hopkins imo. When push comes to shove in a fight all three of those guys have lost fights becuase they didn't push and weren't prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins, Jones and Toney at the end of the day have all been in fights where they didn't win because they were not prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins in both fights against Taylor, also against Calzaghe

Jones against Tarver in the third fight

Toney in various fights throughout his career when he's been lackluster and lost uninspired decisions.


Joe however clearly has a mindset where he'd rather get sparked in a fight than not give everything. He's defiant, he's always a 100% relentless come forward fighter. He always finds another level and never settles in a fight, he keeps going to win regardless.

A good analogy I think would be gambling.

Hopkins, Jones, Toney are all to a greater or lesser extent hedgebetters, they bet carefully and they would never stick all their chips on the table and risk losing it all.

Calzaghe is like the guy who goes into a casino and if he's on a losing run will just say 'right I'm sticking everything red next time, my house my car everything.

This kind of mentality he has would I think inevitebaly lead to him lucking out at some time, and getting ko'd but it would also win him fights that in the same situation a Hopkins, Toney or Jones would settle to lose.

That's why he's a great fighter imo. He's prepared to take risks in the ring and really go out on his shield. Most fighters in reality are not prepared to always take it that far.

Joe Calzaghe hasn't always been able to adapt. As soon as Robin Reid forced Joe Calzaghe on the backfoot he never adapted and he couldn't avoid the right hand.

I don't care what anyone says i still say Robin Reid beat Joe Calzaghe, the punchstats were almost dead even. Except Robin Reid was landing the much more hurtful shots, he was actually rocking Joe Calzaghe's head back which no other Joe Calzaghe opponent has ever done.

I actually don't think Joe Calzaghe can adapt to rough fighters, thats why he struggled in the Bika, Salem, Reid, fights.

I do agree with your other comments though Joe Calzaghe is a great fighter, and is a very competitive person and he doesn't know the word lose.

Also. When hopkins put calzaghe down calzaghe was determined, but his flaws remained the same. I guess what I'm hinting at is. If someone takes advantage of a flaw Joe has, he doesn't go to plan B and stop doing what it is that's geting him beaten. His volume increases but he never corrects his flaws.

I think someone like Toney would have loved that. Toneys best counter punch is that right after all. He loves to throw it after slipping a straight or win there is a hole in someones defense during a flurry. I think Calzaghe would have been tailor made for Toney.


I see him giving Roy a ton of fights though actually.