Regarding Hopkins v Calzaghe......

[BIG H]

I know everbody is talking about the RJJ v Calzaghe fight, but I can't comment on it yet, becuase I am not getiing to see it until this afternoon, but I have noticed people popping up again saying that B-Hop beat JC. Honestly how does anybody score that fight for Hopkins, I just don't get it. Even trying to be biased towards Hopkins, watching the fight on mute over and over, I can't give him a single round after round 4. What am I missing ?

[Gandalf]

Calzaghe won it by about 2 or 3 points IMO. I dont think one or two clean blows here and there is enough to take rounds. You are right, after the 4th Calzaghe turned it up, and Hopkins didnt do much at all.

[Trainer Monkey]

Simple, Hopkins lands cleaner, most of Joes shots are on Hopkins arms. Hopkins seriously screwed up not keeping his work rate up though. You can by the book be winning the fight,and the judges wont see it.One of Hopkins biggest flaws as he's gotten older is he relies too much on guile. Against a fighter like Calzeghe that wont fly just because his work rate is so impressive.

[mrodub]

Simple, Hopkins lands cleaner, most of Joes shots are on Hopkins arms. Hopkins seriously screwed up not keeping his work rate up though. You can by the book be winning the fight,and the judges wont see it.One of Hopkins biggest flaws as he's gotten older is he relies too much on guile. Against a fighter like Calzeghe that wont fly just because his work rate is so impressive.

Yep joe has a great work rate,I think jow won it clear,its like this hopkins landed cleaner shots and was more accurate but he got hit more than calzage.
Its like try to say hopkins threw 5 punches landed 4 and joe threw 20 and landed 14, no matter how accurate and clever hopkins was he still got hit more and the science of boxing is not to get hit simple

[intoccabile]

Simple, Hopkins lands cleaner, most of Joes shots are on Hopkins arms. Hopkins seriously screwed up not keeping his work rate up though. You can by the book be winning the fight,and the judges wont see it.One of Hopkins biggest flaws as he's gotten older is he relies too much on guile. Against a fighter like Calzeghe that wont fly just because his work rate is so impressive.

Yep joe has a great work rate,I think jow won it clear,its like this hopkins landed cleaner shots and was more accurate but he got hit more than calzage.
Its like try to say hopkins threw 5 punches landed 4 and joe threw 20 and landed 14, no matter how accurate and clever hopkins was he still got hit more and the science of boxing is not to get hit simple

More like.. Hopkins throws 10 and lands 4, and joe throws 50 and lands 4.

If they both land the same ammount, judges will still favor joe for his workrate.
Alot of people score fights on clean punches not on missed BS.
THOSE people are the ones who have hopkins winning.

[BIG H]

Simple, Hopkins lands cleaner, most of Joes shots are on Hopkins arms. Hopkins seriously screwed up not keeping his work rate up though. You can by the book be winning the fight,and the judges wont see it.One of Hopkins biggest flaws as he's gotten older is he relies too much on guile. Against a fighter like Calzeghe that wont fly just because his work rate is so impressive.

Yep joe has a great work rate,I think jow won it clear,its like this hopkins landed cleaner shots and was more accurate but he got hit more than calzage.
Its like try to say hopkins threw 5 punches landed 4 and joe threw 20 and landed 14, no matter how accurate and clever hopkins was he still got hit more and the science of boxing is not to get hit simple

More like.. Hopkins throws 10 and lands 4, and joe throws 50 and lands 4.

If they both land the same ammount, judges will still favor joe for his workrate.
Alot of people score fights on clean punches not on missed BS.
THOSE people are the ones who have hopkins winning.

But Hopkins hardly through any punches after round 4, never mind land any

[intoccabile]

Yep joe has a great work rate,I think jow won it clear,its like this hopkins landed cleaner shots and was more accurate but he got hit more than calzage.
Its like try to say hopkins threw 5 punches landed 4 and joe threw 20 and landed 14, no matter how accurate and clever hopkins was he still got hit more and the science of boxing is not to get hit simple

More like.. Hopkins throws 10 and lands 4, and joe throws 50 and lands 4.

If they both land the same ammount, judges will still favor joe for his workrate.
Alot of people score fights on clean punches not on missed BS.
THOSE people are the ones who have hopkins winning.

But Hopkins hardly through any punches after round 4, never mind land any

and i agree, completely. I actually didnt see him take his break until round 5 though, and he fought a few healthy rounds later on while tiring.

Some rounds joe hardly landed at all, just hit hopkins on his back and arms and alot of those were slipped by bernard aswell. I dont know.. when i judge fights, i personally look at all facets of the game.

Defense, offense, the whole nine. If hopkins lands 3 punches and then proceeds to make the other person look like an amateur with his defense, he should be rewarded for his defense aswell. NOT just the 3 punches he landed.

Thats my oppinion though, i just fights on every aspect.

[mrodub]

Boxing is also scored on ring control, aggression and setting the tempo would anyone care to argue hopkins did any of the above because he clearly did not he just landed a few clean shots and got hit more than the other guy thats not how you win

[intoccabile]

Boxing is also scored on ring control, aggression and setting the tempo would anyone care to argue hopkins did any of the above because he clearly did not he just landed a few clean shots and got hit more than the other guy thats not how you win

This is all true.
But you have fighters who are the aggressors and fighters who arn't.
This is why we have styles. You have judges who favor Defense, Ring Generalship, and precision.

Then you have judges who favor Pressure, Activity, and aggressiveness.

Then you have judges to can appreciate them both and judge accordingly.
I said before in another thread, hopkins could have won had the 3 judges been different.
Their fight was definitely a fight that is based on who's at ringside.

and as far as landing a few clean shots and getting hit more than the other guy.
He made the other guy look like an amatuer. Joe hardly hit anything. If you throw 20 versus the other guys 5, your
obviously going to land more. At least in theory. A Machine gun has the chance to hit more targets than a 6 shooter, right? The clip is bigger.

So you have to look at the other aspects of the fight too. And although joe worked more, hopkins worked just as hard to avoid being hit.
What was more effective? joes offense or bhops defense?

[WelshDevilRob]

Hopkins simply got outworked.

Joe cameback from a flash 1st round knockdown and imposed his fight on Hopkins.

When one man imposes his will and fight on you then you have only one winner.

Hopkins was shattered in the later rounds and looking for a rest - some say a way out.

Joe won fair and square.

[intoccabile]

Hopkins simply got outworked.

Joe cameback from a flash 1st round knockdown and imposed his fight on Hopkins.

When one man imposes his will and fight on you then you have only one winner.

Hopkins was shattered in the later rounds and looking for a rest - some say a way out.

Joe won fair and square.

Agreed.
I had hopkings winning 5 of the 12 rounds, with a knockdown in the first.
It was a draw for me. But others believe hopkins won 6 and lost 6 and then a knockdown which is a win.

almost like when Pacman knocked JMM down a ton and only got a Draw. lol.
Joe worked hard.

[mrodub]

Hopkins simply got outworked.

Joe cameback from a flash 1st round knockdown and imposed his fight on Hopkins.

When one man imposes his will and fight on you then you have only one winner.

Hopkins was shattered in the later rounds and looking for a rest - some say a way out.

Joe won fair and square.

I have to agree i think there was only one winner it it for me at least

Punch stats: Total Punches: Calzaghe - 232 of 707 (33%); Hopkins - 127 of 468 (27%). Jabs: Calzaghe - 45 of 224 (20%); Hopkins - 11 of 93 (12%). Power Punches: Calzaghe - 187 but of 483 (39%); Hopkins - 116 of 375 (31%).

These are the stats i just got hopkins did not nearly hit calzaghe as much especially in the last few rounds

[intoccabile]

Hopkins simply got outworked.

Joe cameback from a flash 1st round knockdown and imposed his fight on Hopkins.

When one man imposes his will and fight on you then you have only one winner.

Hopkins was shattered in the later rounds and looking for a rest - some say a way out.

Joe won fair and square.

I have to agree i think there was only one winner it it for me at least

Punch stats: Total Punches: Calzaghe - 232 of 707 (33%); Hopkins - 127 of 468 (27%). Jabs: Calzaghe - 45 of 224 (20%); Hopkins - 11 of 93 (12%). Power Punches: Calzaghe - 187 but of 483 (39%); Hopkins - 116 of 375 (31%).

These are the stats i just got hopkins did not nearly hit calzaghe as much especially in the last few rounds

Most of cals work came after the 5th.

[Spicoli]

That one was hard to watch for me.Ultimatly Calzaghe deserved the nod on sheer volume & pressure.He imposed himself on Hopkins comfort zone,took away his over reliance on sharpshooting.