Is calzaghe the most accomplished fighter to receive more hate than love?

[Taeth]

Who in this era got their respect? Hopkins just got it now by beating Pavlik so one sidedly, but we'll see what Pavlik is made out of. Jones didn't get it, Mayweather didn't get it, Lewis didn't get it. Wait for Calzaghe's career to sink in awhiel

I think the hard thing to see about Calzaghe is that he is greater than the sum of his parts. His very fast, but there have been guys like Jones who were on another level in the speed department comparing the two in their prime. Calzaghe doesn't do things particularly well in the technical department, but then he has this incredible work rate, and he's tough as nails, and its hard to hit him cleanly. He's a great athlete who works his ass off, and most importantly he has an incredible will to win... not even win but to assert his authority on his opponents.

Also the fight wasn't that huge of a domination. Sure Calzaghe won almost every round from that aspect, but he never hurt Jones, he didn't a whole lot of clean shots, most of the night was spent with Calzaghe hitting Jones on the elbows or to the body. It wasn't massacre at all. Calzaghe was hitting Jones' arms at will, but he wasn't landing clean blows at will, he was getting countered everytime Jones threw punches which wasn't often enough, but This wasn't even close to level of domination that Joe had with Jeff Lacy. That was a massacre this was one guy imposing his will on somebody who wasn't doing anything, but the guy imposing his will really didn't hurt the other guy or land very many significant punches.

I am actually surprised by how few clean punches Joe landed on both Hopkins and Jones, I thought Tarver in his first fight landed more hard punches on Jones, and I felt Wright landed more left crosses and right hooks on Hopkins.

As for Joe's record the only thing that is immense about is that he is undefeated and his fights with Bernard Hopkins and Kessler. Eubanks wasn't a particularly good fighter by that point in his career, You ask why he doesn't get respect for his fight against Lacy, well look what Lacy has done since then and in hind sight what he did before he fought Calzaghe. He was having tough fights with D class fighters like Vanderpool.

[Kev]

Who in this era got their respect? Hopkins just got it now by beating Pavlik so one sidedly, but we'll see what Pavlik is made out of. Jones didn't get it, Mayweather didn't get it, Lewis didn't get it. Wait for Calzaghe's career to sink in awhiel

I think the hard thing to see about Calzaghe is that he is greater than the sum of his parts. His very fast, but there have been guys like Jones who were on another level in the speed department comparing the two in their prime. Calzaghe doesn't do things particularly well in the technical department, but then he has this incredible work rate, and he's tough as nails, and its hard to hit him cleanly. He's a great athlete who works his ass off, and most importantly he has an incredible will to win... not even win but to assert his authority on his opponents.

Also the fight wasn't that huge of a domination. Sure Calzaghe won almost every round from that aspect, but he never hurt Jones, he didn't a whole lot of clean shots, most of the night was spent with Calzaghe hitting Jones on the elbows or to the body. It wasn't massacre at all. Calzaghe was hitting Jones' arms at will, but he wasn't landing clean blows at will, he was getting countered everytime Jones threw punches which wasn't often enough, but This wasn't even close to level of domination that Joe had with Jeff Lacy. That was a massacre this was one guy imposing his will on somebody who wasn't doing anything, but the guy imposing his will really didn't hurt the other guy or land very many significant punches.

I am actually surprised by how few clean punches Joe landed on both Hopkins and Jones, I thought Tarver in his first fight landed more hard punches on Jones, and I felt Wright landed more left crosses and right hooks on Hopkins.

As for Joe's record the only thing that is immense about is that he is undefeated and his fights with Bernard Hopkins and Kessler. Eubanks wasn't a particularly good fighter by that point in his career, You ask why he doesn't get respect for his fight against Lacy, well look what Lacy has done since then and in hind sight what he did before he fought Calzaghe. He was having tough fights with D class fighters like Vanderpool.

I disagree completely with that.

EVERYBODY respects Hopkins and Jones Jr, Lennox Lewis and Floyd Mayweather as truly great fighters, even those who hate them.

Who on this site wouldn't have Hopkins as one of the top 3 or 4 middleweights of all time? Who wouldn't have Jones Jr as the best fighter of the 90's?

Who wouldn't have Lennox Lewis as the best heavyweight of the 90's and early 2000'?

Of course there will be on or two dissenters, but the overwhelming majority on here would accept they were the best in their weight class.

There are still many people on here who don't think Calzaghe is on the level of Hopkins, Jones Jr, Lewis, Mayweather etc, I get the feeling you are one of them.

So many of you have stated that a prime Jones or a prime Hopkins destroys Calzaghe so he has been particularly singled out for criticism over and above other fighters, at least on boxing fan boards.


He's a terrific fighter though, only Manny Pacquaio is higher on the p4p rankings, Calzaghe should be number 2 without doubt imo. He's now beaten as many marquess fighters as JM Marquez without the losses.

He's a legend and should be regarded as such. I can't think of any fighter who has a comparable level of disrespect than Calzaghe.

I saw a post from ICB a couple months back where he had Christian Mijares above Calzaghe in the p4p rankings for fucks sake

Based on what, wins over Arce and Munoz?

Well we all know how that ended up

[ICB]

Who in this era got their respect? Hopkins just got it now by beating Pavlik so one sidedly, but we'll see what Pavlik is made out of. Jones didn't get it, Mayweather didn't get it, Lewis didn't get it. Wait for Calzaghe's career to sink in awhiel

I think the hard thing to see about Calzaghe is that he is greater than the sum of his parts. His very fast, but there have been guys like Jones who were on another level in the speed department comparing the two in their prime. Calzaghe doesn't do things particularly well in the technical department, but then he has this incredible work rate, and he's tough as nails, and its hard to hit him cleanly. He's a great athlete who works his ass off, and most importantly he has an incredible will to win... not even win but to assert his authority on his opponents.

Also the fight wasn't that huge of a domination. Sure Calzaghe won almost every round from that aspect, but he never hurt Jones, he didn't a whole lot of clean shots, most of the night was spent with Calzaghe hitting Jones on the elbows or to the body. It wasn't massacre at all. Calzaghe was hitting Jones' arms at will, but he wasn't landing clean blows at will, he was getting countered everytime Jones threw punches which wasn't often enough, but This wasn't even close to level of domination that Joe had with Jeff Lacy. That was a massacre this was one guy imposing his will on somebody who wasn't doing anything, but the guy imposing his will really didn't hurt the other guy or land very many significant punches.

I am actually surprised by how few clean punches Joe landed on both Hopkins and Jones, I thought Tarver in his first fight landed more hard punches on Jones, and I felt Wright landed more left crosses and right hooks on Hopkins.

As for Joe's record the only thing that is immense about is that he is undefeated and his fights with Bernard Hopkins and Kessler. Eubanks wasn't a particularly good fighter by that point in his career, You ask why he doesn't get respect for his fight against Lacy, well look what Lacy has done since then and in hind sight what he did before he fought Calzaghe. He was having tough fights with D class fighters like Vanderpool.

I disagree completely with that.

EVERYBODY respects Hopkins and Jones Jr, Lennox Lewis and Floyd Mayweather as truly great fighters, even those who hate them.

Who on this site wouldn't have Hopkins as one of the top 3 or 4 middleweights of all time? Who wouldn't have Jones Jr as the best fighter of the 90's?

Who wouldn't have Lennox Lewis as the best heavyweight of the 90's and early 2000'?

Of course there will be on or two dissenters, but the overwhelming majority on here would accept they were the best in their weight class.

There are still many people on here who don't think Calzaghe is on the level of Hopkins, Jones Jr, Lewis, Mayweather etc, I get the feeling you are one of them.

So many of you have stated that a prime Jones or a prime Hopkins destroys Calzaghe so he has been particularly singled out for criticism over and above other fighters, at least on boxing fan boards.


He's a terrific fighter though, only Manny Pacquaio is higher on the p4p rankings, Calzaghe should be number 2 without doubt imo. He's now beaten as many marquess fighters as JM Marquez without the losses.

He's a legend and should be regarded as such. I can't think of any fighter who has a comparable level of disrespect than Calzaghe.

I saw a post from ICB a couple months back where he had Christian Mijares above Calzaghe in the p4p rankings for fucks sake

Based on what, wins over Arce and Munoz?

Well we all know how that ended up

I've never had Christian Mijares above Joe Calzaghe in the P4P rankings, unless your on about the thread. Where i said that if you think Joe Calzaghe lost to Robin Reid, Bernard Hopkins, where would he be rated in the P4P rankings now.

I don't know why you think im a Joe Calzaghe hater Bilbo, i do give him credit. I just don't think he is as great as you think he is. I think he for certain lost to Robin Reid quite convincingly, and he lost a close one to Bernard Hopkins IMO.

[Taeth]

Who in this era got their respect? Hopkins just got it now by beating Pavlik so one sidedly, but we'll see what Pavlik is made out of. Jones didn't get it, Mayweather didn't get it, Lewis didn't get it. Wait for Calzaghe's career to sink in awhiel

I think the hard thing to see about Calzaghe is that he is greater than the sum of his parts. His very fast, but there have been guys like Jones who were on another level in the speed department comparing the two in their prime. Calzaghe doesn't do things particularly well in the technical department, but then he has this incredible work rate, and he's tough as nails, and its hard to hit him cleanly. He's a great athlete who works his ass off, and most importantly he has an incredible will to win... not even win but to assert his authority on his opponents.

Also the fight wasn't that huge of a domination. Sure Calzaghe won almost every round from that aspect, but he never hurt Jones, he didn't a whole lot of clean shots, most of the night was spent with Calzaghe hitting Jones on the elbows or to the body. It wasn't massacre at all. Calzaghe was hitting Jones' arms at will, but he wasn't landing clean blows at will, he was getting countered everytime Jones threw punches which wasn't often enough, but This wasn't even close to level of domination that Joe had with Jeff Lacy. That was a massacre this was one guy imposing his will on somebody who wasn't doing anything, but the guy imposing his will really didn't hurt the other guy or land very many significant punches.

I am actually surprised by how few clean punches Joe landed on both Hopkins and Jones, I thought Tarver in his first fight landed more hard punches on Jones, and I felt Wright landed more left crosses and right hooks on Hopkins.

As for Joe's record the only thing that is immense about is that he is undefeated and his fights with Bernard Hopkins and Kessler. Eubanks wasn't a particularly good fighter by that point in his career, You ask why he doesn't get respect for his fight against Lacy, well look what Lacy has done since then and in hind sight what he did before he fought Calzaghe. He was having tough fights with D class fighters like Vanderpool.

I disagree completely with that.

EVERYBODY respects Hopkins and Jones Jr, Lennox Lewis and Floyd Mayweather as truly great fighters, even those who hate them.

Who on this site wouldn't have Hopkins as one of the top 3 or 4 middleweights of all time? Who wouldn't have Jones Jr as the best fighter of the 90's?

Who wouldn't have Lennox Lewis as the best heavyweight of the 90's and early 2000'?

Of course there will be on or two dissenters, but the overwhelming majority on here would accept they were the best in their weight class.

There are still many people on here who don't think Calzaghe is on the level of Hopkins, Jones Jr, Lewis, Mayweather etc, I get the feeling you are one of them.

So many of you have stated that a prime Jones or a prime Hopkins destroys Calzaghe so he has been particularly singled out for criticism over and above other fighters, at least on boxing fan boards.


He's a terrific fighter though, only Manny Pacquaio is higher on the p4p rankings, Calzaghe should be number 2 without doubt imo. He's now beaten as many marquess fighters as JM Marquez without the losses.

He's a legend and should be regarded as such. I can't think of any fighter who has a comparable level of disrespect than Calzaghe.

I saw a post from ICB a couple months back where he had Christian Mijares above Calzaghe in the p4p rankings for fucks sake

Based on what, wins over Arce and Munoz?

Well we all know how that ended up

Mayweather absolutely doesn't get the respect he deserves, him, Hopkins, Jones have always gotten the same flack Joe has.

IMO and in the general consensus Joe has been number 2 or 1 on almost everybodies list. I think his really close fight with Hopkins casted some doubt on that because he was knocked down, Hopkins clearly looked old, and all that good stuff.

Pacquaio has a incredible resume, he has foughten great fighters, and he has come out like 7-1-1 against them or something.

I go back and forward on the Calzaghe vs Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins prime vs prime thing. I think he has that incredible will that could really cause them problems, and Roy had that problem with Montell Griffin where he became too much of an artist in the ring that he forgot sort of how to box. If he fought like that I think Calzaghe beats him prime for prime or Roy wakes up late and we would see if in his prime he had the power to knock Calzaghe out. I think Roy has a special quality that makes him a difficult opponent for any fighter in the history of the sport.

As for Hopkins- Calzaghe, I think its a tough fight, but Hopkins rough style has been difficult for Calzaghe in the past when lesser fighters have done it. I think he HAD that same desire to impose his will on his opponent, it would be a great fight. It would be Calzaghe's speed vs Hopkins' amazing technique and ring intelligence.

As for Lennox Lewis maybe in Brittain they think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but in the States they sure didn't, they thought he was untested, when I think he could likely beat all of the great heavyweights that have ever fought. I truly can't see the small heavyweights like Joe Louis or Dempsey or those guys standing chance because they are too small, I see Ali have whole ton of trouble with a guy like Lewis who can box well and is bigger than him and still fast. I see Foreman and Frazier getting picked apart by Lewis.

[The Fightfan]

my answer to the question. Yes

[ICB]

What about Larry Holmes ? he always lived in Muhammad Ali's shadow, and was never given credit until he retired.

[Kev]

What about Larry Holmes ? he always lived in Muhammad Ali's shadow, and was never given credit until he retired.

And of course you can remember this from memory eh ya young scamp?

[ICB]

What about Larry Holmes ? he always lived in Muhammad Ali's shadow, and was never given credit until he retired.

And of course you can remember this from memory eh ya young scamp?

You don't have to remember it or be around during that time. Its well known Bilbo, i've watch documentaries on it and i've seen about 40+ Larry Holmes fights. After Larry Holmes beat Muhammad Ali he was the most hated man in boxing, he never got credit until he retired.

[CGM]

If you define accomplishment strictly by number of title victories, then Calzaghe is right up there in terms of dislike. Include other criteria and you consider maybe Naseem Hamed.

[Taeth]

Naseem Hamed got owned by the first really good fighter he faced. Calzaghe is a entirely different league of skill than Hamed ever was.

What about Winky Wright? Largely over looked.
Like someone said Larry Holmes.
James Toney as many of you brits love Cazlaghe as people in AMerica remember how good TOney actually was instead of the fat fuck he has become.

[Chino]

It's not that people HATE him. It's just that there is something about his style that doesn’t really appeal people maybe. Sure, as long as he keeps winning, right?
When it comes to hate, then I'll tell you that people DO HATE Mayweather and ODLH.

[irons]

It's not that people HATE him. It's just that there is something about his style that doesn’t really appeal people maybe.

I think that sums it up quite well.

His style doesn't go down well. He throws weak punches at a fast speed (many to the arms), and the judges see he's throwing lots of punches and score them. Then with his stamina and reflexes he can avoid trouble, last the distance, and win on points. Most people would rather see a Mike Tyson, going at his opponents like a raging bull and finishing them off.

His opponents also weren't of the highest calibre, he's faught more bums than in a Playboy calender. But that's maybe not all his fault, he just came along at the wrong time. Some of the blame could be laid at Frank Warrens door as well.

I'm from the UK and not a Calzaghe hater, but I can see why some people aren't impressed.