Calzaghe ducked the best?

[ICB]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.

[joniebeeuk]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.

HaHa,Well done i was checking that everyone was on the ball,No youre quite right it was just Eubank wasnt it.

[ICB]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.

HaHa,Well done i was checking that everyone was on the ball,No youre quite right it was just Eubank wasnt it.

Were pretty knowledgable here mate, you should learn alot here. And you should enjoy your time here, have some rep from me to welcome you to the forum.

[Trainer Monkey]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

And I would add,that argument is a non starter
Bruno was huge here,the Klitschko's are both huge here,Valuev,Chageav
I keep having this same argument,but ignore Rocky 4, Americans just arent that nationalistic,its too big a country,the midwest and the Northeast have nothing in common whatsoever,and frankly dont care for each other

[gudnite vienna]

its a shame Joe never got to fight Collins like he was supposed to, he would of been given a lot of kudos for winning that fight looking back now..

Wat do you think ICB?

[ICB]

its a shame Joe never got to fight Collins like he was supposed to, he would of been given a lot of kudos for winning that fight looking back now..

Wat do you think ICB?

Yes he would have but im not sure how much Steve Collins had left at that point, he had been in with alot of good names Mike McCallum, Chris Eubank x2, Nigel Benn x2, Sumbu Kalambay, ETC. And all those fights would of took something out of him.

But saying that he still looked like he had alot left in his last fight, he was actually knocked down in the opening seconds although no punch landed. But then that seemed to fire him up because he had Craig Cummings down later in the round. And he then proceeded to beat the living crap out of him.

I think Steve Collins would of gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle, Joe Calzaghe was inexperienced at the world stage at that time. And im not sure how he would of dealt with the rough/tough style of Steve Collins. Because history shows Joe Calzaghe has struggled in those kind of fights before.

It would of been a very good fight though and i can't really pick a winner, because Joe Calzaghe was still inexperienced. But Steve Collins also had eye problems, and he passed out in sparring while getting ready for Joe Calzaghe, so im not sure how much he had left.

[Rantcatrat]

So he needs to rematch a guy he's already comfortably beaten then fight either an unproven contender or an unproven champion who just about managed to beat Glen Johnson to have a legacy?

He fought a tight fight,against a guy with only one hand,yeah I think that should be a rematch

He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.

Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.

[Trainer Monkey]

He fought a tight fight,against a guy with only one hand,yeah I think that should be a rematch

He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.

Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.

Watch the Kessler fight,anyone can see he had a bad paw. Jeez,I told one of the people who watched it with me,he said he was hurt,without hesitation I heard,"It was his hand wasnt it?"
It was pretty freaking obvious

[bambamdaddio]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

Well said mate & thats a lot like my own thinking too

[bambamdaddio]

He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.

Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.

Watch the Kessler fight,anyone can see he had a bad paw. Jeez,I told one of the people who watched it with me,he said he was hurt,without hesitation I heard,"It was his hand wasnt it?"
It was pretty freaking obvious

With respect bud .. JC had a crocked hand going into the Lacy fight, he was nearly out of that fight because of it ... but he went ahead & took his chance like Kess did ... thats boxing bud ... they take there chance and live by it...

Can you even imagine the stick that JC & his fans woulda got if Lacy had beat him then we started claiming re match because JC had a bad hand ....

They woulda laughed us outa the forum telling us he was beat fair & square ... & ya know what bud ... Id accept that, because if he chose to take the fight when injured & it backfired, then Id view that as his own fault .. thats life...

[ICB]

He had a bad hand in the same way that Pavlik had the flu the day before Hopkins beat him. Just two losers making excuses for losing.

Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.

Watch the Kessler fight,anyone can see he had a bad paw. Jeez,I told one of the people who watched it with me,he said he was hurt,without hesitation I heard,"It was his hand wasnt it?"
It was pretty freaking obvious

Come on TM im not even Joe Calzaghe fan but your being ridiculous now. Mikkel Kessler never complained about his hand before the fight. He was throwing right uppercuts at will, especially the one that almost took Joe Calzaghe's head off.

Hand injuries are common in boxing you should know that, you know how many times i've hurt my hands ? and i've only had 4 Amateur fights.

[bambamdaddio]

Pavlik never used that excuse. It came out afterward that he had the flu, but I've never heard him say that was the justification for his loss. He steadfastly admits he lost fair and square.

Watch the Kessler fight,anyone can see he had a bad paw. Jeez,I told one of the people who watched it with me,he said he was hurt,without hesitation I heard,"It was his hand wasnt it?"
It was pretty freaking obvious

Come on TM im not even Joe Calzaghe fan but your being ridiculous now. Mikkel Kessler never complained about his hand before the fight. He was throwing right uppercuts at will, especially the one that almost took Joe Calzaghe's head off.

Hand injuries are common in boxing you should know that, you know how many times i've hurt my hands ? and i've only had 4 Amateur fights.

Well said mate but common knowledge re hand injuries and perseverance ... & if injured in anyway at all then its up to the camp to weigh up the risk factors involved .... & then to make a decision based on that information & also whats best for the Boxer too given all the circumstances..

[Fenster]

its a shame Joe never got to fight Collins like he was supposed to, he would of been given a lot of kudos for winning that fight looking back now..

Wat do you think ICB?

Yes he would have but im not sure how much Steve Collins had left at that point, he had been in with alot of good names Mike McCallum, Chris Eubank x2, Nigel Benn x2, Sumbu Kalambay, ETC. And all those fights would of took something out of him.

But saying that he still looked like he had alot left in his last fight, he was actually knocked down in the opening seconds although no punch landed. But then that seemed to fire him up because he had Craig Cummings down later in the round. And he then proceeded to beat the living crap out of him.

I think Steve Collins would of gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle, Joe Calzaghe was inexperienced at the world stage at that time. And im not sure how he would of dealt with the rough/tough style of Steve Collins. Because history shows Joe Calzaghe has struggled in those kind of fights before.

It would of been a very good fight though and i can't really pick a winner, because Joe Calzaghe was still inexperienced. But Steve Collins also had eye problems, and he passed out in sparring while getting ready for Joe Calzaghe, so im not sure how much he had left.

Howard Eastman sparked him in sparring.

He was too slow and didn't hit hard enough to beat Calzaghe.. even an inexperienced version.. still, would have been a good fight

[Mikkel_K]

Don't think so. There were no names at middleweight either. It took Trinidad moving up to give Hopkins a BIG NAME fight. After that (which is when the Calzaghe offer was made) he fought no-names like Hakkar, and Robert Allen for the 50th time, before little Oscar obliged him with a big payday.

It should be said to B-Hop's defence that little Oscar provided something like ten million reasons for him to stay at 160.

That the money werent right for the risk it brought, doesnt mean Hopkins was scared. Same goes for Joe not coming to the States earlier.

[Dark Lord Al]

I dont think Calzaghe intended to duck people , i just dont think he tried hard enough to get those fights , sure offers were made , but look , if Calzaghe had given up the WBOJOKE strap , and fought to NUMBER 1 contender status for say RJJ , or whoever , then he would have got the fight.
Maybe Calzaghe regrets not fighting these guys in their primes , its a part of boxing that i hate , Sven Ottke and Calzaghe both so called unbeaten world champions , in the same division , and never fought, ( not that its all Calzaghe's fault ) it is just bullshit when the best in divisions dont fight.
Basically boxing politics are total bullshit as we are all well aware of.
We shouldnt be left guessing who beats who , we should see it happen !!!
Solution is simple - 1 champion per division.