Froch - What Next for the Cobra...?

[RozzySean]

Taylor beat Hopkins and drew with Wright. He's stopped Raul Marquez and dominated Lacy (who blew out Robin Reid, Froch's second best win).

Bute has wins over Bika, Berrio, and Andrade.

Kessler is Kessler. He gave Calzaghe all he could handle, dominated Andrade, and beat Mundine like a rented mule on his home turf.

Froch has beaten a shot Robin Reid and a decent journeyman, Pascal. And Pascal gave him all he could handle. For all the hype Froch fans have given him, I expected him to destroy Pascal. From what I've seen of Pascal, he's nothing special at all and I expected a blowout.

If some people don't think much of him, it's just the he hasn't given us a reason to think much of him. Oh, and he's 31 years old, not some 26 yo prospect. That's not hate. Those are just he facts. I'm not saying he doesn't belong in the ring with those guys, but I can't see a single reason to make him a favorite.

[Fenster]

Calling Pascal a "journyman" is a liberty. He may not be anything special but he's got talent.

Bute was virtually KO'd last time out. If Andrade can KO him Froch has to be given that chance too.

Taylor seems to be in decline since Hopkins. Froch, being naturally bigger, and i'd bet hungrier, would have a good chance of knocking the fight out of him.

The betting would be close if Froch faced either of those two. Wins either way wouldn't be surprising.

I'd rather see Froch vs Bika/Andrade.. thats got serious PUNCH-UP written all over it

[RozzySean]

Calling Pascal a "journyman" is a liberty. He may not be anything special but he's got talent.

Bute was virtually KO'd last time out. If Andrade can KO him Froch has to be given that chance too.

Taylor seems to be in decline since Hopkins. Froch, being naturally bigger, and i'd bet hungrier, would have a good chance of knocking the fight out of him.

The betting would be close if Froch faced either of those two. Wins either way wouldn't be surprising.

I'd rather see Froch vs Bika/Andrade.. thats got serious PUNCH-UP written all over it

I call Pascal a journeyman based on the quality of his wins. Plenty of guys build unbeaten records fighting nobodies. Based on his quality of opposition AND having seen him a few times, I don't rate him highly. To me, journeyman doesn't mean he's a bum. He's just not top class. For example, Kessler beat Dimitri Sartison, who was unbeaten at the time. Do you rate him much higher than journeyman? Nobody gave Kessler much credit for beating him (an unbeaten fighter) but Froch is supposed to get tons of credit for beating Pascal? Calvin Brock was 29-0 when Wlad KO'd him. Was he much better than a journeyman at the end of the day, or how about Timor Ibragamov at 21-0-1 when he lost to Brock. That was pretty much a classic battle of journeymen. Also plenty of guys build up good KO record when they are fighting nobodies, then once they get up with the big boys, their power doesn't seem so great. Pascal ate a lot of flush shots and kept coming. That could mean that he has a great chin, but it also means that Froch's power might be overrated and padded by his lack of strong opposition. Perhaps calling Pascal a journeyman is a bit of a liberty, but it's also not much of a stretch.

We'll see what happens now that he has a belt. Taylor looked pretty good against Lacy. Froch looks very open to the pressure style of Andrade. Bute has better skills.

[Fenster]

Calling Pascal a "journyman" is a liberty. He may not be anything special but he's got talent.

Bute was virtually KO'd last time out. If Andrade can KO him Froch has to be given that chance too.

Taylor seems to be in decline since Hopkins. Froch, being naturally bigger, and i'd bet hungrier, would have a good chance of knocking the fight out of him.

The betting would be close if Froch faced either of those two. Wins either way wouldn't be surprising.

I'd rather see Froch vs Bika/Andrade.. thats got serious PUNCH-UP written all over it

I call Pascal a journeyman based on the quality of his wins. Plenty of guys build unbeaten records fighting nobodies. Based on his quality of opposition AND having seen him a few times, I don't rate him highly. To me, journeyman doesn't mean he's a bum. He's just not top class. For example, Kessler beat Dimitri Sartison, who was unbeaten at the time. Do you rate him much higher than journeyman? Nobody gave Kessler much credit for beating him (an unbeaten fighter) but Froch is supposed to get tons of credit for beating Pascal? Calvin Brock was 29-0 when Wlad KO'd him. Was he much better than a journeyman at the end of the day, or how about Timor Ibragamov at 21-0-1 when he lost to Brock. That was pretty much a classic battle of journeymen. Also plenty of guys build up good KO record when they are fighting nobodies, then once they get up with the big boys, their power doesn't seem so great. Pascal ate a lot of flush shots and kept coming. That could mean that he has a great chin, but it also means that Froch's power might be overrated and padded by his lack of strong opposition. Perhaps calling Pascal a journeyman is a bit of a liberty, but it's also not much of a stretch.

We'll see what happens now that he has a belt. Taylor looked pretty good against Lacy. Froch looks very open to the pressure style of Andrade. Bute has better skills.

Are you taking the piss?

You're classing unbeaten prospects as journeymen?

A journeyman is a fighter that has failed at top level - to make it to the top - and spends his career racking up losses against unbeaten prospect types.

Amost EVERY fighter on the way up builds their record on nobodies/journeymen. Their standing in boxing is determined by what happens when they get to the top.

[RozzySean]

When I can tell by watching them that that's what they are, I do. Let's look back in five years and see what Jean Pascal's record looks like. It will be filled with losses to guys like Froch, Andre Dirrell, Andre Ward, etc if he sticks around the game that long.

Thus, when I see Froch matched against Pascal, though they both undefeated, I know that Pascal is nothing better than a journeyman-type, opponent-type fighter, and Froch, in spite of his pitiful opposition to date, has actual talent. The jury is still out on how high Froch will go, but time is running out on him.

You are pretty good judge of talent, Fenster. I give you credit for being able to tell the difference between a real prospect and a paper prospect by using your eyes. I know there are plenty of guys you have seen who are undefeated and young, but they are nothing more than average. Perhaps he's not a "journeyman" yet, but that's this future. If you rate Pascal any better, it's just because you love Froch and want this win to mean more than it does.

[Fenster]

When I can tell by watching them that that's what they are, I do. Let's look back in five years and see what Jean Pascal's record looks like. It will be filled with losses to guys like Froch, Andre Dirrell, Andre Ward, etc if he sticks around the game that long.

Thus, when I see Froch matched against Pascal, though they both undefeated, I know that Pascal is nothing better than a journeyman-type, opponent-type fighter, and Froch, in spite of his pitiful opposition to date, has actual talent. The jury is still out on how high Froch will go, but time is running out on him.

You are pretty good judge of talent, Fenster. I give you credit for being able to tell the difference between a real prospect and a paper prospect by using your eyes. I know there are plenty of guys you have seen who are undefeated and young, but they are nothing more than average. Perhaps he's not a "journeyman" yet, but that's this future. If you rate Pascal any better, it's just because you love Froch and want this win to mean more than it does.

Me love Froch

On this site, ive been a critic of his from DAY ONE. Ive always predicted he would FAIL at the very top. And still do. Ive already stated Kessler will "slaughter" him and he'd start underdog against Bute, Taylor (slight) and be 50/50 with Bika and Andrade.

I give credit where it's due though. And have no problem admitting when i'm wrong.

Pascal was a decorated amatuer, unbeaten and ranked no.3 by the WBC. Considering Froch had never fought anyone above Brit/Euro level, Pascal was a leap in class for him - which he passed.

You're clearly a far harsher, more confident judge of unbeaten prospects than me. I'm more inclined to give someone the benefit of doubt.. ESPECIALLY before they've lost

[RozzySean]

When I can tell by watching them that that's what they are, I do. Let's look back in five years and see what Jean Pascal's record looks like. It will be filled with losses to guys like Froch, Andre Dirrell, Andre Ward, etc if he sticks around the game that long.

Thus, when I see Froch matched against Pascal, though they both undefeated, I know that Pascal is nothing better than a journeyman-type, opponent-type fighter, and Froch, in spite of his pitiful opposition to date, has actual talent. The jury is still out on how high Froch will go, but time is running out on him.

You are pretty good judge of talent, Fenster. I give you credit for being able to tell the difference between a real prospect and a paper prospect by using your eyes. I know there are plenty of guys you have seen who are undefeated and young, but they are nothing more than average. Perhaps he's not a "journeyman" yet, but that's this future. If you rate Pascal any better, it's just because you love Froch and want this win to mean more than it does.

Me love Froch

On this site, ive been a critic of his from DAY ONE. Ive always predicted he would FAIL at the very top. And still do. Ive already stated Kessler will "slaughter" him and he'd start underdog against Bute, Taylor (slight) and be 50/50 with Bika and Andrade.

I give credit where it's due though. And have no problem admitting when i'm wrong.

Pascal was a decorated amatuer, unbeaten and ranked no.3 by the WBC. Considering Froch had never fought anyone above Brit/Euro level, Pascal was a leap in class for him - which he passed.

You're clearly a far harsher, more confident judge of unbeaten prospects than me. I'm more inclined to give someone the benefit of doubt.. ESPECIALLY before they've lost

We agree more than we disagree. I had no idea about Pascal amatuer pedigree. I'm going based on seeing him fight a few times and somewhat by looking at his record. When they were building him up to fight Miranda and he was calling out Miranda, I was thinking, you gotta be kidding me. Miranda will murder this guy.

Perhaps I'm being a little hard on Pascal. He was a necessary step up for him, but it was a test I full expected him to pass. I'm not sure if Froch is worse than I thought or Pascal is a little better.

I am a pretty harsh judge of prospects, actually, but I think I have a good eye, in spite of a rash of bad picks lately on the sportsbook. It takes a lot to get me on the bandwagon. Don't forget, Fenster, I was neck and neck with Bomp and probably you for first one time in the prediction contest before forgetting to put in picks for the final week due to a busy week at work

[littlerock]

Calling Pascal a "journyman" is a liberty. He may not be anything special but he's got talent.

Bute was virtually KO'd last time out. If Andrade can KO him Froch has to be given that chance too.

Taylor seems to be in decline since Hopkins. Froch, being naturally bigger, and i'd bet hungrier, would have a good chance of knocking the fight out of him.

The betting would be close if Froch faced either of those two. Wins either way wouldn't be surprising.

I don't think the betting would be all that close in either of those fights.

Notice you are giving Froch a "chance" to win against Bute and Taylor. That is hardly giving him odds or making him the obvious favorite. That is what most people are questioning Froch's fans for here; why in the world they would favor him over the top fighters in the division. Yes he has a chance to win, but the odds would be against it.

And I wouldn't get too confident about Froch's size advantage over Taylor. Taylor was a big middleweight at 6'0 or 6'1", making him bigger than Pascal as well. Froch is listed at 6'0" but I think he might be closer to 6'1". Taylor unofficially weighed in at 174 lbs on the day of the fight against Lacy.

[Fenster]

Calling Pascal a "journyman" is a liberty. He may not be anything special but he's got talent.

Bute was virtually KO'd last time out. If Andrade can KO him Froch has to be given that chance too.

Taylor seems to be in decline since Hopkins. Froch, being naturally bigger, and i'd bet hungrier, would have a good chance of knocking the fight out of him.

The betting would be close if Froch faced either of those two. Wins either way wouldn't be surprising.

I don't think the betting would be all that close in either of those fights.

Notice you are giving Froch a "chance" to win against Bute and Taylor. That is hardly giving him odds or making him the obvious favorite. That is what most people are questioning Froch's fans for here; why in the world they would favor him over the top fighters in the division. Yes he has a chance to win, but the odds would be against it.

And I wouldn't get too confident about Froch's size advantage over Taylor. Taylor was a big middleweight at 6'0 or 6'1", making him bigger than Pascal as well. Froch is listed at 6'0" but I think he might be closer to 6'1". Taylor unofficially weighed in at 174 lbs on the day of the fight against Lacy.

CLOSE in the betting means there would be NO obvious favourite.

[OumaFan]

I think Taylor's being underrated here, I don't even like him but he's been on a completely different level from Froch for years. Not that I think its a mismatch, Froch probably wants it a bit more, Taylor doesn't strike me as a guy that wants to be in the ring, granted they all fight for money first and foremost but some guys seem to like it more than others.

[littlerock]

Calling Pascal a "journyman" is a liberty. He may not be anything special but he's got talent.

Bute was virtually KO'd last time out. If Andrade can KO him Froch has to be given that chance too.

Taylor seems to be in decline since Hopkins. Froch, being naturally bigger, and i'd bet hungrier, would have a good chance of knocking the fight out of him.

The betting would be close if Froch faced either of those two. Wins either way wouldn't be surprising.

I don't think the betting would be all that close in either of those fights.

Notice you are giving Froch a "chance" to win against Bute and Taylor. That is hardly giving him odds or making him the obvious favorite. That is what most people are questioning Froch's fans for here; why in the world they would favor him over the top fighters in the division. Yes he has a chance to win, but the odds would be against it.

And I wouldn't get too confident about Froch's size advantage over Taylor. Taylor was a big middleweight at 6'0 or 6'1", making him bigger than Pascal as well. Froch is listed at 6'0" but I think he might be closer to 6'1". Taylor unofficially weighed in at 174 lbs on the day of the fight against Lacy.

CLOSE in the betting means there would be NO obvious favourite.

LOL, obviously.

I was more making a point to the loads of folks that are all of a sudden more than eager to make Froch the favorite (heavy in some cases) over everyone in the division except for Kessler.

There seem to be a lot of people jumping from the obvious "he could KO Taylor, Bute, etc" to "He could KO Taylor & Bute so he would win."

I'm just saying, some of his fans should stay somewhat grounded and understand the difference between fantasy and reality. I just quoted you because you were a good example of someone realizing that they were describing the matchups in terms of chances instead of certainties.

[HattonTheHammer]

Taylor beat Hopkins and drew with Wright. He's stopped Raul Marquez and dominated Lacy (who blew out Robin Reid, Froch's second best win).

Bute has wins over Bika, Berrio, and Andrade.

Kessler is Kessler. He gave Calzaghe all he could handle, dominated Andrade, and beat Mundine like a rented mule on his home turf.

Froch has beaten a shot Robin Reid and a decent journeyman, Pascal. And Pascal gave him all he could handle. For all the hype Froch fans have given him, I expected him to destroy Pascal. From what I've seen of Pascal, he's nothing special at all and I expected a blowout.

If some people don't think much of him, it's just the he hasn't given us a reason to think much of him. Oh, and he's 31 years old, not some 26 yo prospect. That's not hate. Those are just he facts. I'm not saying he doesn't belong in the ring with those guys, but I can't see a single reason to make him a favorite.

How the hell can an unbeaten fighter be described as a journeyman??

And while im not arguing kesslers talent its hardly fair on mundine to insinuate that particular fight was one sided when mundine won 4rounds at the very least!

Froch is a protected fighter that has never fought outside of britain, doesnt have any real credible names to his record...yadda yadda yadda

The very same things were said about a certain Mr Calzaghe and thats not the only resembelance between the 2 fighters.

Froch will go all the way....mark my words!!

[Rantcatrat]

Taylor beat Hopkins and drew with Wright. He's stopped Raul Marquez and dominated Lacy (who blew out Robin Reid, Froch's second best win).

Bute has wins over Bika, Berrio, and Andrade.

Kessler is Kessler. He gave Calzaghe all he could handle, dominated Andrade, and beat Mundine like a rented mule on his home turf.

Froch has beaten a shot Robin Reid and a decent journeyman, Pascal. And Pascal gave him all he could handle. For all the hype Froch fans have given him, I expected him to destroy Pascal. From what I've seen of Pascal, he's nothing special at all and I expected a blowout.

If some people don't think much of him, it's just the he hasn't given us a reason to think much of him. Oh, and he's 31 years old, not some 26 yo prospect. That's not hate. Those are just he facts. I'm not saying he doesn't belong in the ring with those guys, but I can't see a single reason to make him a favorite.

How the hell can an unbeaten fighter be described as a journeyman??

And while im not arguing kesslers talent its hardly fair on mundine to insinuate that particular fight was one sided when mundine won 4rounds at the very least!

Froch is a protected fighter that has never fought outside of britain, doesnt have any real credible names to his record...yadda yadda yadda

The very same things were said about a certain Mr Calzaghe and thats not the only resembelance between the 2 fighters.

Froch will go all the way....mark my words!!

I'm holding you to the comparison with Joe Calzaghe. Froch is no Joe.

I'm curious - besides being British, in what other ways are they comparable?

Pascal is no journeyman. He is a top twenty/thirty smw in a pretty deep division. But, he is Froch's biggest victory.

Taylor has a more proven record...at middleweight. Still, some of that experience has to translate to 168. Froch is untested - he hasn't been in the ring with Winkie, Bhop, or Pavlik. In addition, as expected, Taylor dominated Lacy in his last fight. Thus, I don't see the "steady decline." He lost to Pavlik twice. But, that's it. So what, he lost to the middleweight champion of the world. At this moment, my money is on Taylor if they fight.

I'd like to see Froch fight Bika. My gut tells me Bika would light him up, but Froch fought a good fight this last weekend and I may be way off the mark.

Froch may outbox Andrade. Outbox him in a different way than Bute, but outbox him much the same, and unlike Bute, Froch's chin would hold up.

As long as Bute isn't negatively affected by the knockout in his last fight, Bute would box circles around Froch.

Kessler would dominate Froch.

[Rantcatrat]

Taylor beat Hopkins and drew with Wright. He's stopped Raul Marquez and dominated Lacy (who blew out Robin Reid, Froch's second best win).

Bute has wins over Bika, Berrio, and Andrade.

Kessler is Kessler. He gave Calzaghe all he could handle, dominated Andrade, and beat Mundine like a rented mule on his home turf.

Froch has beaten a shot Robin Reid and a decent journeyman, Pascal. And Pascal gave him all he could handle. For all the hype Froch fans have given him, I expected him to destroy Pascal. From what I've seen of Pascal, he's nothing special at all and I expected a blowout.

If some people don't think much of him, it's just the he hasn't given us a reason to think much of him. Oh, and he's 31 years old, not some 26 yo prospect. That's not hate. Those are just he facts. I'm not saying he doesn't belong in the ring with those guys, but I can't see a single reason to make him a favorite.

How the hell can an unbeaten fighter be described as a journeyman??

And while im not arguing kesslers talent its hardly fair on mundine to insinuate that particular fight was one sided when mundine won 4rounds at the very least!

Froch is a protected fighter that has never fought outside of britain, doesnt have any real credible names to his record...yadda yadda yadda

The very same things were said about a certain Mr Calzaghe and thats not the only resembelance between the 2 fighters.

Froch will go all the way....mark my words!!

Why the allegiance to Mundine? The guy is a c*nt.

[LukeH]

How the hell can an unbeaten fighter be described as a journeyman??

And while im not arguing kesslers talent its hardly fair on mundine to insinuate that particular fight was one sided when mundine won 4rounds at the very least!

Froch is a protected fighter that has never fought outside of britain, doesnt have any real credible names to his record...yadda yadda yadda

The very same things were said about a certain Mr Calzaghe and thats not the only resembelance between the 2 fighters.

Froch will go all the way....mark my words!!

hes fought in america once