Boxrec RULES!!!!

[XaduBoxer]

Gotta love them having PAC #1 at 140 when he's never fought at that weight.

They will probably fight each other next so they belong to the same division and I think it will be at 140 division...

On PAC placed above Hatton on the 140 rankings, I think you can't deny that PAC's boxing record and accomplishments is way above Hatton's and now that they belong to the same division, it carries that PAC is ranked higher than Hatton...

It's not pretty but that's how some rankings orgs operate...
.

PAC has acheived nothing at 140 because he's never fought there. Perhaps instead of talking you should reread this thread. We are going to have to agree to disagree here because we fundamentally have differing opinions on what rankings should be.

I believe that rankings should reflect the current state of the game based on merit in the category heading (AKA facts), therefore I believe that rankings of Light Welter should reflect things that have happened at Light Welter.

You believe that a fighters ranking should be based on the opinion of how you THINK (AKA speculation) a fighter would do at a weight class. This makes no sense especially since it is not even definate (however likely it may seem) that PAC will even fight at 140.

To follow up with your bringing the alphabet soup into the mix, I have in fact written complaint letters to all the guilty parties, however I am not optimistic in getting a reply.

So you're a true believer in Ring Mag rankings, let's take it's rankings at 154. You don't have any problems with Paul Williams at #2 ahead of 154 long-time residents and current champs Daniel Santos and Sergei Dzindziruk? (BTW, I pick Santos or Dzindziruk to beat Williams at 154)

Jr. Middleweight
Limit: 154 pounds
1. Vernon Forrest
2. Paul Williams
3. Verno Phillips
4. Cory Spinks
5. Sergio Mora
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Sergei Dzindziruk
8. Daniel Santos
9. Joachim Alcine
10. James Kirkland
.

[XaduBoxer]

Sorry SaddoBoxer but that is a load of shite!Overall accomplishments per division are one thing but it's not a crash a division free card supported by 'probably' and 'I thinks' against the best they have.There are always one too many jumps.No matter where they are 'ranked' at 140 I think Hatton is numero uno!
I can picture Kenny saying this HAHA,

Merry christmas

Merry Xmas too lil' bro...

WBC, WBA, WBO, IBF, BoxRec, Fightnews, ABC, XYZ did ranked boxers even if they have not yet fought in a certain division... It's a fact...

I think (again), it's only Ring Mag who would not ranked a boxer if he has not fought in that division....
.

[killersheep]

They will probably fight each other next so they belong to the same division and I think it will be at 140 division...

On PAC placed above Hatton on the 140 rankings, I think you can't deny that PAC's boxing record and accomplishments is way above Hatton's and now that they belong to the same division, it carries that PAC is ranked higher than Hatton...

It's not pretty but that's how some rankings orgs operate...
.

PAC has acheived nothing at 140 because he's never fought there. Perhaps instead of talking you should reread this thread. We are going to have to agree to disagree here because we fundamentally have differing opinions on what rankings should be.

I believe that rankings should reflect the current state of the game based on merit in the category heading (AKA facts), therefore I believe that rankings of Light Welter should reflect things that have happened at Light Welter.

You believe that a fighters ranking should be based on the opinion of how you THINK (AKA speculation) a fighter would do at a weight class. This makes no sense especially since it is not even definate (however likely it may seem) that PAC will even fight at 140.

To follow up with your bringing the alphabet soup into the mix, I have in fact written complaint letters to all the guilty parties, however I am not optimistic in getting a reply.

So you're a true believer in Ring Mag rankings, let's take it's rankings at 154. You don't have any problems with Paul Williams at #2 ahead of 154 long-time residents and current champs Daniel Santos and Sergei Dzindziruk? (I pick Santos or Dzindziruk to beat Williams at 154)

Jr. Middleweight
Limit: 154 pounds
1. Vernon Forrest
2. Paul Williams
3. Verno Phillips
4. Cory Spinks
5. Sergio Mora
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Sergei Dzindziruk
8. Daniel Santos
9. Joachim Alcine
10. James Kirkland
.

Well considering that Paul Williams BEAT the #2 ranked Verno Phillips I would say that's a fair assessment. His acheivement was merited by beating the man that held the rank. Next...............

[XaduBoxer]

PAC has acheived nothing at 140 because he's never fought there. Perhaps instead of talking you should reread this thread. We are going to have to agree to disagree here because we fundamentally have differing opinions on what rankings should be.

I believe that rankings should reflect the current state of the game based on merit in the category heading (AKA facts), therefore I believe that rankings of Light Welter should reflect things that have happened at Light Welter.

You believe that a fighters ranking should be based on the opinion of how you THINK (AKA speculation) a fighter would do at a weight class. This makes no sense especially since it is not even definate (however likely it may seem) that PAC will even fight at 140.

To follow up with your bringing the alphabet soup into the mix, I have in fact written complaint letters to all the guilty parties, however I am not optimistic in getting a reply.

So you're a true believer in Ring Mag rankings, let's take it's rankings at 154. You don't have any problems with Paul Williams at #2 ahead of 154 long-time residents and current champs Daniel Santos and Sergei Dzindziruk? (I pick Santos or Dzindziruk to beat Williams at 154)

Jr. Middleweight
Limit: 154 pounds
1. Vernon Forrest
2. Paul Williams
3. Verno Phillips
4. Cory Spinks
5. Sergio Mora
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Sergei Dzindziruk
8. Daniel Santos
9. Joachim Alcine
10. James Kirkland
.

Well considering that Paul Williams BEAT the #2 ranked Verno Phillips I would say that's a fair assessment. His acheivement was merited by beating the man that held the rank. Next...............

LOL ... Even Team Hatton acknowledged that Pacquiao is the man...

"Manny is the man and if you want to fight the man they have got the whip hand."

I'm not sure why you can't accept that PAC is greater than Hatton including at 140... LOL...
.

[killersheep]

So you're a true believer in Ring Mag rankings, let's take it's rankings at 154. You don't have any problems with Paul Williams at #2 ahead of 154 long-time residents and current champs Daniel Santos and Sergei Dzindziruk? (I pick Santos or Dzindziruk to beat Williams at 154)

Jr. Middleweight
Limit: 154 pounds
1. Vernon Forrest
2. Paul Williams
3. Verno Phillips
4. Cory Spinks
5. Sergio Mora
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Sergei Dzindziruk
8. Daniel Santos
9. Joachim Alcine
10. James Kirkland
.

Well considering that Paul Williams BEAT the #2 ranked Verno Phillips I would say that's a fair assessment. His acheivement was merited by beating the man that held the rank. Next...............

LOL ... Even Team Hatton acknowledged that Pacquiao is the man...

"Manny is the man and if you want to fight the man they have got the whip hand."

I'm not sure why you can't accept that PAC is greater than Hatton including at 140... LOL...
.

No source and out of context as expected. I will not acknowledge PAC has done anything at 140 until he does something at 140.

[Spicoli]

What a carnival barker.......Of course Hatton is talking it up.You know allll about hype huh?Point was made and stole my thunder...Lil Bro....Williams more accomplished with his victory over credible champion in Phillips off his own upset.Manny beat a partner last and at 140 has never been.

[XaduBoxer]

Well considering that Paul Williams BEAT the #2 ranked Verno Phillips I would say that's a fair assessment. His acheivement was merited by beating the man that held the rank. Next...............

LOL ... Even Team Hatton acknowledged that Pacquiao is the man...

"Manny is the man and if you want to fight the man they have got the whip hand."

I'm not sure why you can't accept that PAC is greater than Hatton including at 140... LOL...
.

No source and out of context as expected. I will not acknowledge PAC has done anything at 140 until he does something at 140.

Ohh you're still sticking to your 140 argument... Since you're a believer of Ring Mag, PAC is ranked at #5 at 147 and ranked #2 at 135 at the same time, it means PAC has done everything from 135 to 147 according to Ring Mag... 140 is just but in between 135 and 147...

BTW, the source (link) of Team Hatton accepting that PAC is the man :

Daily Star: Simply The Best 7 Days A Week :: In The Ring :: £20m Hart pay Pacq-et

[killersheep]

LOL ... Even Team Hatton acknowledged that Pacquiao is the man...

"Manny is the man and if you want to fight the man they have got the whip hand."

I'm not sure why you can't accept that PAC is greater than Hatton including at 140... LOL...
.

No source and out of context as expected. I will not acknowledge PAC has done anything at 140 until he does something at 140.

Ohh you're still sticking to your 140 argument... Since you're a believer of Ring Mag, PAC is ranked at #5 at 147 and ranked #2 at 135 at the same time, it means PAC has done everything from 135 to 147 according to Ring Mag... 140 is just but in between 135 and 147...

BTW, the source (link) of Team Hatton accepting that PAC is the man :

Daily Star: Simply The Best 7 Days A Week :: In The Ring :: �20m Hart pay Pacq-et

No it means he has fought at 135 AND 147. Do I need to start using smaller words?

[XaduBoxer]

No source and out of context as expected. I will not acknowledge PAC has done anything at 140 until he does something at 140.

Ohh you're still sticking to your 140 argument... Since you're a believer of Ring Mag, PAC is ranked at #5 at 147 and ranked #2 at 135 at the same time, it means PAC has done everything from 135 to 147 according to Ring Mag... 140 is just but in between 135 and 147...

BTW, the source (link) of Team Hatton accepting that PAC is the man :

Daily Star: Simply The Best 7 Days A Week :: In The Ring :: �20m Hart pay Pacq-et

No it means he has fought at 135 AND 147. Do I need to start using smaller words?

Team Hatton already acknowledged that Pacquaio is the man... End of story....
.

[killersheep]

Ohh you're still sticking to your 140 argument... Since you're a believer of Ring Mag, PAC is ranked at #5 at 147 and ranked #2 at 135 at the same time, it means PAC has done everything from 135 to 147 according to Ring Mag... 140 is just but in between 135 and 147...

BTW, the source (link) of Team Hatton accepting that PAC is the man :

Daily Star: Simply The Best 7 Days A Week :: In The Ring :: �20m Hart pay Pacq-et

No it means he has fought at 135 AND 147. Do I need to start using smaller words?

Team Hatton already acknowledged that Pacquaio is the man... End of story....
.

Ok, again we've established you are just talking and not making any sense. Furthermore, you are moving farther and farther away from the point of this thread. I'm going to sleep now, but I'll be back first thing in the morning to counter the next round of bullshit you bring up.

[Dizaster]

Did anyone e-mail Boxrec yet?

[XaduBoxer]

Did anyone e-mail Boxrec yet?

I don't know if Killa emailed BoxRec... He's the one who started this protest on BoxRec's #1 ranking of PAC at 140...

He said, he used to write complaint letters to alphabet organizations but I can't understand why he's reluctant to send one to BoxRec... Maybe due to his ego since I instructed him to email Boxrec...
.

[amat]

You're nuts bro. Pacquiao can't be ranked ahead of anyone at 140 because he has never competed their in his life. Even if he signs to fight Hatton tomorrow, he will spend 5 months on top of the rnakings at 140 before he ever fights a single bout there.

Paul Williams is ranked above Santos and Sergei because he beat Verno Phillips. See the funny thing about Paul Williams is he actually happens to fought at the weight which he was ranked.

I don't think anyone is saying that Hatton rates higher then Pacquiao pound for pound, but if you want to become champion in a division it helps to fight in it at least one time in your career.

Boxrec has point values assessed to every fighter and then they categorize the fighters by weight classes. They have Hatton-Pacquiao on for May 2nd, so they have Pacquiao fighting at 140. Since he has the most points, he is the champion of the 140 division.

The good thing is that people with sense know that at the very least, to be champion at a weight division you have to have fought in it. No one at boxrec actually ranks fighters it's all mathmatics.

But you're nuts if you're seriously arguing that Manny Pacquiao is the champion of the 140 lb division. Say that in a sentence and don't laugh.

[Dizaster]

I kind of get why Pac can't be ranked P4P#1 at 140 when he hasn't even fought there.. The fact that he did fight at 147 and win mean quite a bit, but he didn't beat a current P4P best there..
So i'll present this 1 question for though.

If however Pac fought the P4P best at 147 in Margarito and won, would that more so qualify him for being the P4P best at 140? At least in anyone's eyes?

But in this case I'm guessing, the fact that he beat a hopeless Oscar at 147, does not automatically prove he can beat a prime fighter at 140... I think anyone can agree with that.. So from that angle, it can't be 100% justified saying Pac is the best at 140...




Here is where I can see the arguement for possibly placing Pac as P4P#1 at 140..

Because A) He is the P4P best fighter in the world based on how well he has beaten opponents at the weights he's been, and the quality of those opponents... B) The Pound for Pound rankings are designed in such a way to be able to compare the performances and abilities of different fighters at different weights... So even though a Klitch. could beat a Pac any day of the week if they were in the ring,,, Pac is still considered a better fighter, because he's beaten some arguably HOF opponents, but the K boys haven't beaten as many and and as convincingly etc....
C) The fact Pac is P4P#1 overall, means that at the weight he realisically makes, and maintains 100% of his resources, skill, assets etc, then obviously he could be considered the P4P#1 AT that weight..
D) If you take the Pac vs DLH fight as a clear sign that he is the same quality fighter at approx the 143 weight, then he could then be considered a 140 pound fighter... And that P4P overall ranking carries forward into that weight division that he now weighs in at....


So I see both sides.... But don't let that stop this thread from going another 100 pages.. It's great stuff and I would love to see how one of you can convince the other. It will be a great achievement.

[amat]

The thing is though Diz, you don't rank guys P4P in the division. You can see why too.

Because P4P is mythical and has no set guidelines. There is no path becoming ranked top pound for pound it's just something that's purely subjective.

If Manny beat Margarito, would he be favored to beat anyone at 140? Absolutely he would. However, you can't rank him at a division until he has actually fought there. Surely you see the absurdity in this, if writers can just decide that since they think Pac would beat any fighter in the 140 lb division, he is automatically the champion of that division. Last time I checked that's not how you become a champion of a division, or even ranked number 1.

That would be like making Margarito number 1 at 140, because he would likely beat everyone at 140.

I don't want to read 7 pages, this should be puerely agreeable even if you think that the first punch Pacquiao landed Hatton would be sprawled across the mat, it doesn't matter.