Calzaghe-Hagler?

[ICB]

Marvin had a great sun as middlweight champ, but i don't think he was a great skilled fighter... some what of a magarito type fighter - his chin allowed him to fight his fight and force the guy onto the back foot and break them down.

When he fought truly skilled fighter like Ray and duran, even though they were MUCH MUCH smaller than him, look at the trouble he had... i mean true great natural middleweight should not get beat by a normal sized Welter, no matter how skilled they are, let alone one who had been so inactive... and duran, best @ lightweight... almost beat marvin...

of course being such a "fan boy" i am going to pick Joe... early on it could be 50/50 if joe fought a bit silly... but even if that was the case, take the kessler fight, he knows how to adapt and fight right, he has always done it so i see no reason for him not to do it if this fictious fight happened...

marvin was pretty easy to work, two steps into every move, good fighters can see it coming and know what he was going, he didn't has a great array of punches either, it was just non stop pressure backed up by that rock solid chin of his.

Stick to Joe Calzaghe you haven't got a clue about Marvin Hagler, do you realize he used to be a skilled counter puncher who used movement ? and that only in the last few years of his career did he fight more aggressively coming forward . And please do not compare Antonio Margarito/Marvin Hagler that is a ridiculous comment. Marvin Hagler even when he was pressuring was a very skilled fighter, who jabbed his way in. Cut off the ring and used a good variety of punches. And Roberto Duran almost beat Marvin Hagler ? stop looking at boxrec and boxing articles and actually watch the fight, its one of the most overrated close fights in history. Marvin Hagler was a clear winner in that fight, and considering Roberto Duran managed to win the Middleweight title off the huge Iran Barkley, i would say he was still very good at Middleweight. And as for SRL he was not a natural Welterweight IMO, and size wise SRL and Marvin Hagler are almost the same size, regarding height and weight, Marvin Hagler was never over the Middleweight limit only a few times, that means he was a natural Middleweight and couldn't move up really any higher. Lastly SRL only took the fight with Marvin Hagler because Marvin Hagler was a shot fighter and he had slowed down alot especially in his brutal war, with John Mugabi. And SRL demanded the bigger ring, the gloves, the ring size, the rounds, as a matter of fact had that fight been 15 rounds like it was scheduled to be at first, until SRL got it changed. SRL would of been stopped 100 percent.

[Taeth]

Marvin had a great sun as middlweight champ, but i don't think he was a great skilled fighter... some what of a magarito type fighter - his chin allowed him to fight his fight and force the guy onto the back foot and break them down.

When he fought truly skilled fighter like Ray and duran, even though they were MUCH MUCH smaller than him, look at the trouble he had... i mean true great natural middleweight should not get beat by a normal sized Welter, no matter how skilled they are, let alone one who had been so inactive... and duran, best @ lightweight... almost beat marvin...

of course being such a "fan boy" i am going to pick Joe... early on it could be 50/50 if joe fought a bit silly... but even if that was the case, take the kessler fight, he knows how to adapt and fight right, he has always done it so i see no reason for him not to do it if this fictious fight happened...

marvin was pretty easy to work, two steps into every move, good fighters can see it coming and know what he was going, he didn't has a great array of punches either, it was just non stop pressure backed up by that rock solid chin of his.

Stick to Joe Calzaghe you haven't got a clue about Marvin Hagler, do you realize he used to be a skilled counter puncher who used movement ? and that only in the last few years of his career did he fight more aggressively coming forward . And please do not compare Antonio Margarito/Marvin Hagler that is a ridiculous comment. Marvin Hagler even when he was pressuring was a very skilled fighter, who jabbed his way in. Cut off the ring and used a good variety of punches. And Roberto Duran almost beat Marvin Hagler ? stop looking at boxrec and boxing articles and actually watch the fight, its one of the most overrated close fights in history. Marvin Hagler was a clear winner in that fight, and considering Roberto Duran managed to win the Middleweight title off the huge Iran Barkley, i would say he was still very good at Middleweight. And as for SRL he was not a natural Welterweight IMO, and size wise SRL and Marvin Hagler are almost the same size, regarding height and weight, Marvin Hagler was never over the Middleweight limit only a few times, that means he was a natural Middleweight and couldn't move up really any higher. Lastly SRL only took the fight with Marvin Hagler because Marvin Hagler was a shot fighter and he had slowed down alot especially in his brutal war, with John Mugabi. And SRL demanded the bigger ring, the gloves, the ring size, the rounds, as a matter of fact had that fight been 15 rounds like it was scheduled to be at first, until SRL got it changed. SRL would of been stopped 100 percent.

ICB what hell are you talking about? Leonard was about 15 pounds lighter than Hagler come fight night, he looked way smaller, height hardly means size. Also just because a fighter is effective above their natural weight doesn't mean that is their natural weightclass. You also assume we know nothing of Hagler, he was a good boxer, but no way would he have outboxed Calzaghe. They both are underrated in that category, but the speed and height advantage has to play in Calzaghe's favor. Also the Duran-Hagler fight I've seen it probably 10 times, and it was a close fight until the end when Duran gassed out, but he was an old man by then and they had a rough fight, maybe you should be the one to watch the fight, because it was a close fight that Hagler clearly won. Also Leonard hadn't fought in three years in a weightclass he had never been in, Hagler should have clearly won despite the advantages in Leonard's favor, and Hagler was hardly the wreck of a fighter you make him out to be near the end of his career, he was 31 still had most of his speed, its just his level of opposition increased dramatically closer to the end of his career which made him look probably more like the fighter he actually was a tough fighter, with good boxing skills, but first and foremost was a pressure fighter who could punch and take a punch.

[RozzySean]

Marvin had a great sun as middlweight champ, but i don't think he was a great skilled fighter... some what of a magarito type fighter - his chin allowed him to fight his fight and force the guy onto the back foot and break them down.

When he fought truly skilled fighter like Ray and duran, even though they were MUCH MUCH smaller than him, look at the trouble he had... i mean true great natural middleweight should not get beat by a normal sized Welter, no matter how skilled they are, let alone one who had been so inactive... and duran, best @ lightweight... almost beat marvin...

of course being such a "fan boy" i am going to pick Joe... early on it could be 50/50 if joe fought a bit silly... but even if that was the case, take the kessler fight, he knows how to adapt and fight right, he has always done it so i see no reason for him not to do it if this fictious fight happened...

marvin was pretty easy to work, two steps into every move, good fighters can see it coming and know what he was going, he didn't has a great array of punches either, it was just non stop pressure backed up by that rock solid chin of his.

Stick to Joe Calzaghe you haven't got a clue about Marvin Hagler, do you realize he used to be a skilled counter puncher who used movement ? and that only in the last few years of his career did he fight more aggressively coming forward . And please do not compare Antonio Margarito/Marvin Hagler that is a ridiculous comment. Marvin Hagler even when he was pressuring was a very skilled fighter, who jabbed his way in. Cut off the ring and used a good variety of punches. And Roberto Duran almost beat Marvin Hagler ? stop looking at boxrec and boxing articles and actually watch the fight, its one of the most overrated close fights in history. Marvin Hagler was a clear winner in that fight, and considering Roberto Duran managed to win the Middleweight title off the huge Iran Barkley, i would say he was still very good at Middleweight. And as for SRL he was not a natural Welterweight IMO, and size wise SRL and Marvin Hagler are almost the same size, regarding height and weight, Marvin Hagler was never over the Middleweight limit only a few times, that means he was a natural Middleweight and couldn't move up really any higher. Lastly SRL only took the fight with Marvin Hagler because Marvin Hagler was a shot fighter and he had slowed down alot especially in his brutal war, with John Mugabi. And SRL demanded the bigger ring, the gloves, the ring size, the rounds, as a matter of fact had that fight been 15 rounds like it was scheduled to be at first, until SRL got it changed. SRL would of been stopped 100 percent.

ICB what hell are you talking about? Leonard was about 15 pounds lighter than Hagler come fight night, he looked way smaller, height hardly means size. Also just because a fighter is effective above their natural weight doesn't mean that is their natural weightclass. You also assume we know nothing of Hagler, he was a good boxer, but no way would he have outboxed Calzaghe. They both are underrated in that category, but the speed and height advantage has to play in Calzaghe's favor. Also the Duran-Hagler fight I've seen it probably 10 times, and it was a close fight until the end when Duran gassed out, but he was an old man by then and they had a rough fight, maybe you should be the one to watch the fight, because it was a close fight that Hagler clearly won. Also Leonard hadn't fought in three years in a weightclass he had never been in, Hagler should have clearly won despite the advantages in Leonard's favor, and Hagler was hardly the wreck of a fighter you make him out to be near the end of his career, he was 31 still had most of his speed, its just his level of opposition increased dramatically closer to the end of his career which made him look probably more like the fighter he actually was a tough fighter, with good boxing skills, but first and foremost was a pressure fighter who could punch and take a punch.

Not early Hagler. Young Hagler had great legs and fought off his toes often. Against pressure fighters, he would move backwards and counter, then pressure when he had the advantage. The Duran fight was not his best performance, and Duran is an ATG who fought a tremendous fight. Also, Hagler was a pretty old 31. He had 64 fights under his belt.

[ross]

[Hagler was a pretty old 31. He had 64 fights under his belt.

Going by boxrec he had 61 fights.

Duran was a year older and had 81 fights and this was also his first fight at middle

Hagler is starting to look like Taylor

[RozzySean]

[Hagler was a pretty old 31. He had 64 fights under his belt.

Going by boxrec he had 61 fights.

Duran was a year older and had 81 fights and this was also his first fight at middle

Hagler is starting to look like Taylor

[ross]

It dont matter what anyone says, Duran was older, smaller and had more miles on the clock

[RozzySean]

It dont matter what anyone says, Duran was older, smaller and had more miles on the clock

Duran is still an ATG HoFer who managed to beat Iran Barkley a few years later. This is Roberto Duran we are talking about, one of the greatest fighters to ever put on a pair of gloves. And Hagler beat him clearly, more clearly than Joe beat old 'Nard or for that matter, Robin Reid.

[ICB]

Marvin had a great sun as middlweight champ, but i don't think he was a great skilled fighter... some what of a magarito type fighter - his chin allowed him to fight his fight and force the guy onto the back foot and break them down.

When he fought truly skilled fighter like Ray and duran, even though they were MUCH MUCH smaller than him, look at the trouble he had... i mean true great natural middleweight should not get beat by a normal sized Welter, no matter how skilled they are, let alone one who had been so inactive... and duran, best @ lightweight... almost beat marvin...

of course being such a "fan boy" i am going to pick Joe... early on it could be 50/50 if joe fought a bit silly... but even if that was the case, take the kessler fight, he knows how to adapt and fight right, he has always done it so i see no reason for him not to do it if this fictious fight happened...

marvin was pretty easy to work, two steps into every move, good fighters can see it coming and know what he was going, he didn't has a great array of punches either, it was just non stop pressure backed up by that rock solid chin of his.

Stick to Joe Calzaghe you haven't got a clue about Marvin Hagler, do you realize he used to be a skilled counter puncher who used movement ? and that only in the last few years of his career did he fight more aggressively coming forward . And please do not compare Antonio Margarito/Marvin Hagler that is a ridiculous comment. Marvin Hagler even when he was pressuring was a very skilled fighter, who jabbed his way in. Cut off the ring and used a good variety of punches. And Roberto Duran almost beat Marvin Hagler ? stop looking at boxrec and boxing articles and actually watch the fight, its one of the most overrated close fights in history. Marvin Hagler was a clear winner in that fight, and considering Roberto Duran managed to win the Middleweight title off the huge Iran Barkley, i would say he was still very good at Middleweight. And as for SRL he was not a natural Welterweight IMO, and size wise SRL and Marvin Hagler are almost the same size, regarding height and weight, Marvin Hagler was never over the Middleweight limit only a few times, that means he was a natural Middleweight and couldn't move up really any higher. Lastly SRL only took the fight with Marvin Hagler because Marvin Hagler was a shot fighter and he had slowed down alot especially in his brutal war, with John Mugabi. And SRL demanded the bigger ring, the gloves, the ring size, the rounds, as a matter of fact had that fight been 15 rounds like it was scheduled to be at first, until SRL got it changed. SRL would of been stopped 100 percent.

ICB what hell are you talking about? Leonard was about 15 pounds lighter than Hagler come fight night, he looked way smaller, height hardly means size. Also just because a fighter is effective above their natural weight doesn't mean that is their natural weightclass. You also assume we know nothing of Hagler, he was a good boxer, but no way would he have outboxed Calzaghe. They both are underrated in that category, but the speed and height advantage has to play in Calzaghe's favor. Also the Duran-Hagler fight I've seen it probably 10 times, and it was a close fight until the end when Duran gassed out, but he was an old man by then and they had a rough fight, maybe you should be the one to watch the fight, because it was a close fight that Hagler clearly won. Also Leonard hadn't fought in three years in a weightclass he had never been in, Hagler should have clearly won despite the advantages in Leonard's favor, and Hagler was hardly the wreck of a fighter you make him out to be near the end of his career, he was 31 still had most of his speed, its just his level of opposition increased dramatically closer to the end of his career which made him look probably more like the fighter he actually was a tough fighter, with good boxing skills, but first and foremost was a pressure fighter who could punch and take a punch.

Just because a fighter started at a lower weight class doesn't always tell the whole story. The fact is Marvin Hagler could of never have moved above the Middleweight limit, because as i said before he was always mostly just under the Middleweight limit rarely was he above it. He wasn't a big Middleweight at all.

Where as SRL fought Donny La Londe at 165 catchweight, i also seem to remember SRL fighting Thomas Hearns at Super Middleweight ? im not sure of the weights but i do know SRL fought at higher weightclasses than Marvin Hagler did. I really don't know why you keep arguing this point its stupid. SRL did start at a lower weightclass but it wasn't his natural weight.

And the fact that SRL moved up to a higher weightclass than Marvin Hagler speaks volumes. That there size difference wasn't that much at all, SRL also had the height advantage aswell but whatever. Secondly when the hell did i say i assume no one knows nothing about Marvin Hagler do you think im that ignorant ?

My comment was to Preme who obviously hasn't got a clue about Marvin Hagler, because he compared him to Antonio Margarito which tells me. He had only seen his last few fights of his career, and not his early fights where he boxed. And when did i say Marvin Hagler could outbox Joe Calzaghe ?

All i said was that Marvin Hagler had better boxing skills in his early career. I never said he could outbox Joe Calzaghe, but i for certain think he would be too tough/rough for Joe Calzaghe. I've seen Joe Calzaghe struggle in those kind of fights before and he loses concentration easily.

And Taeth why do you assume your always right ? i think your a good poster. But you always claim your opinions as fact, i think the Marvin Hagler vs Roberto Duran is one of the most overrated close fights. But thats my opinion just because you scored it different. Doesn't mean i have to watch it again because your opinion is as good as mine, and i've watched it enough times.

Lastly Marvin Hagler was for certain on the slide, he had alot of tough fights in a row. He had many overall tough fights, he had alot of fights. And SRL only took the Marvin Hagler fight after he see Marvin Hagler slow down alot in the John Mugabi fight, SRL said himself he see the chance because Marvin Hagler had slowed down.

[Taeth]

Stick to Joe Calzaghe you haven't got a clue about Marvin Hagler, do you realize he used to be a skilled counter puncher who used movement ? and that only in the last few years of his career did he fight more aggressively coming forward . And please do not compare Antonio Margarito/Marvin Hagler that is a ridiculous comment. Marvin Hagler even when he was pressuring was a very skilled fighter, who jabbed his way in. Cut off the ring and used a good variety of punches. And Roberto Duran almost beat Marvin Hagler ? stop looking at boxrec and boxing articles and actually watch the fight, its one of the most overrated close fights in history. Marvin Hagler was a clear winner in that fight, and considering Roberto Duran managed to win the Middleweight title off the huge Iran Barkley, i would say he was still very good at Middleweight. And as for SRL he was not a natural Welterweight IMO, and size wise SRL and Marvin Hagler are almost the same size, regarding height and weight, Marvin Hagler was never over the Middleweight limit only a few times, that means he was a natural Middleweight and couldn't move up really any higher. Lastly SRL only took the fight with Marvin Hagler because Marvin Hagler was a shot fighter and he had slowed down alot especially in his brutal war, with John Mugabi. And SRL demanded the bigger ring, the gloves, the ring size, the rounds, as a matter of fact had that fight been 15 rounds like it was scheduled to be at first, until SRL got it changed. SRL would of been stopped 100 percent.

ICB what hell are you talking about? Leonard was about 15 pounds lighter than Hagler come fight night, he looked way smaller, height hardly means size. Also just because a fighter is effective above their natural weight doesn't mean that is their natural weightclass. You also assume we know nothing of Hagler, he was a good boxer, but no way would he have outboxed Calzaghe. They both are underrated in that category, but the speed and height advantage has to play in Calzaghe's favor. Also the Duran-Hagler fight I've seen it probably 10 times, and it was a close fight until the end when Duran gassed out, but he was an old man by then and they had a rough fight, maybe you should be the one to watch the fight, because it was a close fight that Hagler clearly won. Also Leonard hadn't fought in three years in a weightclass he had never been in, Hagler should have clearly won despite the advantages in Leonard's favor, and Hagler was hardly the wreck of a fighter you make him out to be near the end of his career, he was 31 still had most of his speed, its just his level of opposition increased dramatically closer to the end of his career which made him look probably more like the fighter he actually was a tough fighter, with good boxing skills, but first and foremost was a pressure fighter who could punch and take a punch.

Just because a fighter started at a lower weight class doesn't always tell the whole story. The fact is Marvin Hagler could of never have moved above the Middleweight limit, because as i said before he was always mostly just under the Middleweight limit rarely was he above it. He wasn't a big Middleweight at all.

Where as SRL fought Donny La Londe at 165 catchweight, i also seem to remember SRL fighting Thomas Hearns at Super Middleweight ? im not sure of the weights but i do know SRL fought at higher weightclasses than Marvin Hagler did. I really don't know why you keep arguing this point its stupid. SRL did start at a lower weightclass but it wasn't his natural weight.

And the fact that SRL moved up to a higher weightclass than Marvin Hagler speaks volumes. That there size difference wasn't that much at all, SRL also had the height advantage aswell but whatever. Secondly when the hell did i say i assume no one knows nothing about Marvin Hagler do you think im that ignorant ?

My comment was to Preme who obviously hasn't got a clue about Marvin Hagler, because he compared him to Antonio Margarito which tells me. He had only seen his last few fights of his career, and not his early fights where he boxed. And when did i say Marvin Hagler could outbox Joe Calzaghe ?

All i said was that Marvin Hagler had better boxing skills in his early career. I never said he could outbox Joe Calzaghe, but i for certain think he would be too tough/rough for Joe Calzaghe. I've seen Joe Calzaghe struggle in those kind of fights before and he loses concentration easily.

And Taeth why do you assume your always right ? i think your a good poster. But you always claim your opinions as fact, i think the Marvin Hagler vs Roberto Duran is one of the most overrated close fights. But thats my opinion just because you scored it different. Doesn't mean i have to watch it again because your opinion is as good as mine, and i've watched it enough times.

Lastly Marvin Hagler was for certain on the slide, he had alot of tough fights in a row. He had many overall tough fights, he had alot of fights. And SRL only took the Marvin Hagler fight after he see Marvin Hagler slow down alot in the John Mugabi fight, SRL said himself he see the chance because Marvin Hagler had slowed down.

ICB, I thought you were directing that comment towards everyone favoring Calzaghe. We will agree to disagree about the Duran fight, or that Hagler wasn't around his prime. I think he needed to change his style to fight smaller, faster guys, but that it wasn't a huge change, he still used head movement, caution, tactical precision(except in the Hearns fight). I thought he totally outboxed Mugabi personally, and it didn't see it as that much of a war because of that. In the Mugabi fight he did a lot of counterpunching and used a lot of defensive skills, same with against Duran, its just he wasn't the better, faster boxer. He was a great package overall, but when he tried to box with the best he wasn't successful. He definitely was a little slower by the time he got to Leonard, but not remarkably so, he was still fast enough to land, it was his defensive skills I call into question in that fight. Bernard Hopkins wasn't as fast as Calzaghe and had slowed down considerably, but he still made Joe miss like crazy. IMO you have to be able to do that to keep guys like Calzaghe honest. If Joe can hit you then he will go buck wild, and despite his unorthodox punches he had good power in his prime.

As for the size, Leonard had dazzling speed, we've seen the success speed has when it moves up north. JOnes went up to heavyweight, Floyd to jr. MW, Pacquiao to WW. A guy like HAgler who gets hit more, is in more trouble than guys like Leonard would be against a bigger guy like Michael Spinks. All that being said I think Hagler could have moved up, and probably would have if Duran, Leonard, and Hearns weren't around at MW. He would have done very well at LHW.