Cotto may never be the same

[Onix]

i think if theres anything that can be said about miguel cotto, its that hes obviously got a very strong character. the loss he suffered against margarito would have finished alot of fighters am sure, but i doubt it will cotto. i see him dusting himself off and getting straight back to business in 2009. the guys a warrior.

How do we know that he has a strong "character"?

[TitoFan]

i think if theres anything that can be said about miguel cotto, its that hes obviously got a very strong character. the loss he suffered against margarito would have finished alot of fighters am sure, but i doubt it will cotto. i see him dusting himself off and getting straight back to business in 2009. the guys a warrior.

How do we know that he has a strong "character"?

I dunno... depends how you define "character" in boxing. If you define it as someone who is dedicated to the ring and sport and always gives his all in the ring... if you define it as someone who does not need to trash-talk anyone, but rather let's his fists do the talking... if you define it as someone who takes on all opponents they put in front of him... if you define it as someone who refuses to make excuses when he is beaten... if you define it as someone who comports himself with class in and out of the ring...

Then yes... IMO, Cotto would qualify as having a strong character.

Does any of this help?

[Onix]

i think if theres anything that can be said about miguel cotto, its that hes obviously got a very strong character. the loss he suffered against margarito would have finished alot of fighters am sure, but i doubt it will cotto. i see him dusting himself off and getting straight back to business in 2009. the guys a warrior.

How do we know that he has a strong "character"?

I dunno... depends how you define "character" in boxing. If you define it as someone who is dedicated to the ring and sport and always gives his all in the ring... if you define it as someone who does not need to trash-talk anyone, but rather let's his fists do the talking... if you define it as someone who takes on all opponents they put in front of him... if you define it as someone who refuses to make excuses when he is beaten... if you define it as someone who comports himself with class in and out of the ring...

Then yes... IMO, Cotto would qualify as having a strong character.

Does any of this help?

Ok you just described every fighter that is competitive in the sport, except for the trash talk part, so if they all have character what makes Cotto so special? and why can he bounce back from this one and Jeff Lacy not bounce back from from his loss to JC? Maybe its not that Lacy couldnt bounce back maybe it was like some other posters have said in the past about him, maybe he got "found out"...maybe Cotto got "found out" I'm not saying that specifically but the argument could be made for it.

[TitoFan]

How do we know that he has a strong "character"?

I dunno... depends how you define "character" in boxing. If you define it as someone who is dedicated to the ring and sport and always gives his all in the ring... if you define it as someone who does not need to trash-talk anyone, but rather let's his fists do the talking... if you define it as someone who takes on all opponents they put in front of him... if you define it as someone who refuses to make excuses when he is beaten... if you define it as someone who comports himself with class in and out of the ring...

Then yes... IMO, Cotto would qualify as having a strong character.

Does any of this help?

Ok you just described every fighter that is competitive in the sport, except for the trash talk part, so if they all have character what makes Cotto so special? and why can he bounce back from this one and Jeff Lacy not bounce back from from his loss to JC? Maybe its not that Lacy couldnt bounce back maybe it was like some other posters have said in the past about him, maybe he got "found out"...maybe Cotto got "found out" I'm not saying that specifically but the argument could be made for it.

(patient sigh of exasperation)...No Onix, I DIDN'T describe every fighter who is competitive in the sport. Geeez, you and Chino can wear a guy out with your non-sensical anti-Cotto rantings. Lots of competitive fighters out there: 1) blatantly duck opponents, for whatever reason (ie: Oscar and Margarito), and 2) make all kinds of excuses when they're beaten. So you see... you're wrong right off the bat.

As for Cotto getting "found out"... found out about what?!?!? That he's been a bum all along?!? Get a grip, for chrissakes.

You know, for not wanting to be a "dick"... you're walking a very fine line.

[Onix]

I dunno... depends how you define "character" in boxing. If you define it as someone who is dedicated to the ring and sport and always gives his all in the ring... if you define it as someone who does not need to trash-talk anyone, but rather let's his fists do the talking... if you define it as someone who takes on all opponents they put in front of him... if you define it as someone who refuses to make excuses when he is beaten... if you define it as someone who comports himself with class in and out of the ring...

Then yes... IMO, Cotto would qualify as having a strong character.

Does any of this help?

Ok you just described every fighter that is competitive in the sport, except for the trash talk part, so if they all have character what makes Cotto so special? and why can he bounce back from this one and Jeff Lacy not bounce back from from his loss to JC? Maybe its not that Lacy couldnt bounce back maybe it was like some other posters have said in the past about him, maybe he got "found out"...maybe Cotto got "found out" I'm not saying that specifically but the argument could be made for it.

(patient sigh of exasperation)...No Onix, I DIDN'T describe every fighter who is competitive in the sport. Geeez, you and Chino can wear a guy out with your non-sensical anti-Cotto rantings. Lots of competitive fighters out there: 1) blatantly duck opponents, for whatever reason (ie: Oscar and Margarito), and 2) make all kinds of excuses when they're beaten. So you see... you're wrong right off the bat.

As for Cotto getting "found out"... found out about what?!?!? That he's been a bum all along?!? Get a grip, for chrissakes.

You know, for not wanting to be a "dick"... you're walking a very fine line.

Haha, walking a fine line? why cuz I am not agreeing with you? I never said I didnt like Cotto I am very much pro Cotto, I'm simply making a point as are you and I'm not calling you a dick for it.

Maybe I jumped the gun in saying that every fighter has character, ok maybe not, but alot of fighters have the traits that you described about Cotto so why is Cotto so special?

What I said in regards to him being found out is more of a statement as to why people say Lacy's loss to JC was so devasting, maybe it was just that he cant compete at that level not that he had such a terrible loss, so why cant the same be said about Cotto?

I think my replies regarding this topic have been very "sensical" if you dont want to be tested and questioned about your replies then maybe you should not post them up.

You call them "anti-cotto" rantings, then what are yours pro-cotto rantings? The differance here is one major point, lets just say im pro-Margo and you are pro-cotto, I can see Margo's weaknesses and acknowledge his losses without excuse. You dont argue the loss but you will not accept that maybe he is not fighter everyone thought he could/should be. The Margo fight was supposed to be Cotto's huge coming out party, I think even Arum was like shit I just fucked my boy up on this one. I dont doubt his pedigree, Cotto is a great fighter, but leave your mind open to the fact that maybe he's not at the level of you want him to be, as Im open to the fact that he may come back and beat Margo on the rematch.

[TitoFan]

[quote=OnixAA;661791]

Ok you just described every fighter that is competitive in the sport, except for the trash talk part, so if they all have character what makes Cotto so special? and why can he bounce back from this one and Jeff Lacy not bounce back from from his loss to JC? Maybe its not that Lacy couldnt bounce back maybe it was like some other posters have said in the past about him, maybe he got "found out"...maybe Cotto got "found out" I'm not saying that specifically but the argument could be made for it.

(patient sigh of exasperation)...No Onix, I DIDN'T describe every fighter who is competitive in the sport. Geeez, you and Chino can wear a guy out with your non-sensical anti-Cotto rantings. Lots of competitive fighters out there: 1) blatantly duck opponents, for whatever reason (ie: Oscar and Margarito), and 2) make all kinds of excuses when they're beaten. So you see... you're wrong right off the bat.

As for Cotto getting "found out"... found out about what?!?!? That he's been a bum all along?!? Get a grip, for chrissakes.

You know, for not wanting to be a "dick"... you're walking a very fine line.

Haha, walking a fine line? why cuz I am not agreeing with you? I never said I didnt like Cotto I am very much pro Cotto, I'm simply making a point as are you and I'm not calling you a dick for it. (Ok, you're right).

Maybe I jumped the gun in saying that every fighter has character, ok maybe not, but alot of fighters have the traits that you described about Cotto so why is Cotto so special? (A poster said Cotto had a strong character. You refuted that. I came back to tell you why I think Cotto has character. Nothing in there says I said Cotto is "special". Don't put words in my mouth).

What I said in regards to him being found out is more of a statement as to why people say Lacy's loss to JC was so devasting, maybe it was just that he cant compete at that level not that he had such a terrible loss, so why cant the same be said about Cotto? (That he can't compete at that level? Because of the one loss? I think we're jumping the gun on this one, don't you?)

I think my replies regarding this topic have been very "sensical" if you dont want to be tested and questioned about your replies then maybe you should not post them up. (What makes you the "tester and questioner" and me the "questionee"? You state your views, I state mine. I'm not here to convince you about anything).

You call them "anti-cotto" rantings, then what are yours pro-cotto rantings? The differance here is one major point, lets just say im pro-Margo and you are pro-cotto, I can see Margo's weaknesses and acknowledge his losses without excuse. You dont argue the loss(I'm glad you at least see that much). but you will not accept that maybe he is not fighter everyone thought he could/should be. The Margo fight was supposed to be Cotto's huge coming out party, I think even Arum was like shit I just fucked my boy up on this one. I dont doubt his pedigree, Cotto is a great fighter, but leave your mind open to the fact that maybe he's not at the level of you want him to be, as Im open to the fact that he may come back and beat Margo on the rematch.(Ironically, I'm not even that sure that Cotto could beat Margarito in a rematch. Sometimes it's a matter of style, and Cotto did everything humanly possible to try to beat Margarito but came up short. He'd need a major strategy change to pull off a victory in a rematch).[/quote]

See my comments above.

[Scrap]

After the Fight Cottos walk back to the dressing room spoke volumes as did his posture.

[Onix]

[quote=TitoFan;661796]

(patient sigh of exasperation)...No Onix, I DIDN'T describe every fighter who is competitive in the sport. Geeez, you and Chino can wear a guy out with your non-sensical anti-Cotto rantings. Lots of competitive fighters out there: 1) blatantly duck opponents, for whatever reason (ie: Oscar and Margarito), and 2) make all kinds of excuses when they're beaten. So you see... you're wrong right off the bat.

As for Cotto getting "found out"... found out about what?!?!? That he's been a bum all along?!? Get a grip, for chrissakes.

You know, for not wanting to be a "dick"... you're walking a very fine line.

Haha, walking a fine line? why cuz I am not agreeing with you? I never said I didnt like Cotto I am very much pro Cotto, I'm simply making a point as are you and I'm not calling you a dick for it. (Ok, you're right).

Maybe I jumped the gun in saying that every fighter has character, ok maybe not, but alot of fighters have the traits that you described about Cotto so why is Cotto so special? (A poster said Cotto had a strong character. You refuted that. I came back to tell you why I think Cotto has character. Nothing in there says I said Cotto is "special". Don't put words in my mouth).

What I said in regards to him being found out is more of a statement as to why people say Lacy's loss to JC was so devasting, maybe it was just that he cant compete at that level not that he had such a terrible loss, so why cant the same be said about Cotto? (That he can't compete at that level? Because of the one loss? I think we're jumping the gun on this one, don't you?)

I think my replies regarding this topic have been very "sensical" if you dont want to be tested and questioned about your replies then maybe you should not post them up. (What makes you the "tester and questioner" and me the "questionee"? You state your views, I state mine. I'm not here to convince you about anything).

You call them "anti-cotto" rantings, then what are yours pro-cotto rantings? The differance here is one major point, lets just say im pro-Margo and you are pro-cotto, I can see Margo's weaknesses and acknowledge his losses without excuse. You dont argue the loss(I'm glad you at least see that much). but you will not accept that maybe he is not fighter everyone thought he could/should be. The Margo fight was supposed to be Cotto's huge coming out party, I think even Arum was like shit I just fucked my boy up on this one. I dont doubt his pedigree, Cotto is a great fighter, but leave your mind open to the fact that maybe he's not at the level of you want him to be, as Im open to the fact that he may come back and beat Margo on the rematch.(Ironically, I'm not even that sure that Cotto could beat Margarito in a rematch. Sometimes it's a matter of style, and Cotto did everything humanly possible to try to beat Margarito but came up short. He'd need a major strategy change to pull off a victory in a rematch).[/quote]

See my comments above.

First of all I'll say this, you're a great poster and I've enjoyed the debate this far.

Not too much else to say about the other points except for one, to me If I am proving a point or making a statement, it's because I want to convince you of my point of view, I test and question your points of view because I want to convince you of mine, you can and have tested and questioned mine as well as you should, to prove your points.

[Kirkland Laing]

How do we know that he has a strong "character"?

I dunno... depends how you define "character" in boxing. If you define it as someone who is dedicated to the ring and sport and always gives his all in the ring... if you define it as someone who does not need to trash-talk anyone, but rather let's his fists do the talking... if you define it as someone who takes on all opponents they put in front of him... if you define it as someone who refuses to make excuses when he is beaten... if you define it as someone who comports himself with class in and out of the ring...

Then yes... IMO, Cotto would qualify as having a strong character.

Does any of this help?

Ok you just described every fighter that is competitive in the sport, except for the trash talk part, so if they all have character what makes Cotto so special? and why can he bounce back from this one and Jeff Lacy not bounce back from from his loss to JC? Maybe its not that Lacy couldnt bounce back maybe it was like some other posters have said in the past about him, maybe he got "found out"...maybe Cotto got "found out" I'm not saying that specifically but the argument could be made for it.

Cotto has infinitely more boxing ability than Lacy. I don't think he'll have any problems coming back to what he was but I don't think he has any chance in a Margarito rematch.