Holyfield on Joe Louis "I'd tear him up!"

[donnydarkoIRL]

Regarding Holyfields heart "problem" that was down to growth hormone, thats a problem of his own making.

Holyfield needs to shut up now, hes not relevant and doesnt create any interest in the heavys and is part of the joke that is todays heavys

.

Not relevant?

He dropped a scandalous decision to Valuev just weeks ago, he's relevant enough to compete with the top heavies.


1;
Holyfield believes that he can still be Unified world Heavyweight Champion.
We don't take this opinion seriously, then why take his opinion about Louis seriously?

2;
As a heavyweight, Holyfield is actually bigger than Joe.
He has actually fought better competition than Joe has in Tyson, Lewis, Bowe etc.

Given the evolution in size, one could also take Holyfield's cruiser wins into account.

Joe was taken out badly by Marciano and Schmeling, outjabbed by Conn and troubled by some mediocre fighters.
With Holyfields chin, anything COULD happen.

Although I would insert the Bomber as favourite, this hypothetical fight could be a pick em.

[holmcall]

Regarding Holyfields heart "problem" that was down to growth hormone, thats a problem of his own making.

Holyfield needs to shut up now, hes not relevant and doesnt create any interest in the heavys and is part of the joke that is todays heavys

.

Not relevant?

He dropped a scandalous decision to Valuev just weeks ago, he's relevant enough to compete with the top heavies.


1;
Holyfield believes that he can still be Unified world Heavyweight Champion.
We don't take this opinion seriously, then why take his opinion about Louis seriously?

2;
As a heavyweight, Holyfield is actually bigger than Joe.
He has actually fought better competition than Joe has in Tyson, Lewis, Bowe etc.

Given the evolution in size, one could also take Holyfield's cruiser wins into account.

Joe was taken out badly by Marciano and Schmeling, outjabbed by Conn and troubled by some mediocre fighters.
With Holyfields chin, anything COULD happen.

Although I would insert the Bomber as favourite, this hypothetical fight could be a pick em.

Good points, indeed, but keep in mind that Valuev is nothing to write home about. Johnny Ruiz got stiffed in a fight with that Beast.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Good points, indeed, but keep in mind that Valuev is nothing to write home about. Johnny Ruiz got stiffed in a fight with that Beast.

In truth Valuev is a very poor boxer. He does pose problems because of his sheer size though and for Holyfield to have the conditioning to (imo) overcome him deserves some credit given his age.

You know what I agree, in their first meeting Ruiz outhustled Valuev completely and was never hurt or in danger himself.

Valuev will end up tarnished by his management and gift decisions, just as Primo Carnera was.

[El Kabong]

Valuev will end up tarnished by his management and gift decisions, just as Primo Carnera was.

Say what you will about how bad Carnera was (he was bad) but he went up against the BEST. Valuev will NEVER fight the best heavyweights because he will get humiliated...Nicolay Valuev, John Ruiz, AND Evander Holyfield have turned the WBA Heavyweight title into a joke. Sure Evander is a great fighter but he's nowhere near Joe Louis' class.

Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight of all-time he successfully defended his title 25 times, sure he lost to Schmeling but he also avenged that loss in brutal fashion.

As for Joe Louis' "weak competition": Max Baer, Jim Braddock, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Max Schmeling, Rocky Marciano, Billy Conn, and Jack Sharkey....that's pretty good competition as far as I can tell.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Valuev will end up tarnished by his management and gift decisions, just as Primo Carnera was.

Say what you will about how bad Carnera was (he was bad) but he went up against the BEST. Valuev will NEVER fight the best heavyweights because he will get humiliated...Nicolay Valuev, John Ruiz, AND Evander Holyfield have turned the WBA Heavyweight title into a joke. Sure Evander is a great fighter but he's nowhere near Joe Louis' class.

Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight of all-time he successfully defended his title 25 times, sure he lost to Schmeling but he also avenged that loss in brutal fashion.

As for Joe Louis' "weak competition": Max Baer, Jim Braddock, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Max Schmeling, Rocky Marciano, Billy Conn, and Jack Sharkey....that's pretty good competition as far as I can tell.

We all know Joe is superman in your eyes Lyle

But if you look into that competition list a little closer it's not that hot.
Max Baer was a killer puncher, but he was a clown and an inconsistent trainer.
Jim Braddock was a mediocre at best fighter, an over achiever and not even a natural heavyweight.
Joe Walcott I'll give you....The Bomber beat him in his prime.
Ezzard Charles was also great, but a light heavy naturally and suffered severe health problems.
Max Schmeling exposed Louis' defensive shortcomings in their first fight.
Rocky fought an old Joe and administered a savage beating.
Billy Conn was a Light Heavy and Jack Sharkey is hardly a Mike Tyson.

[Master]

Making 25 defenses is a sign of greatness just because of the consistency and dedication that is required.That alone makes him greater that Holyfield.

[El Kabong]

We all know Joe is superman in your eyes Lyle

But if you look into that competition list a little closer it's not that hot.
Max Baer was a killer puncher, but he was a clown and an inconsistent trainer.
Jim Braddock was a mediocre at best fighter, an over achiever and not even a natural heavyweight.
Joe Walcott I'll give you....The Bomber beat him in his prime.
Ezzard Charles was also great, but a light heavy naturally and suffered severe health problems.
Max Schmeling exposed Louis' defensive shortcomings in their first fight.
Rocky fought an old Joe and administered a savage beating.
Billy Conn was a Light Heavy and Jack Sharkey is hardly a Mike Tyson.

And Evander Holyfield lost to Michael Moorer one of the weakest heavyweight champions of all-time. Evander also lost to flash in the pan Riddick Bowe TWICE and was KO'd by him. Evander also got schooled by Chris Byrd, James Toney, and Larry Donald! Evander lost to JOHN RUIZ.....JOHN FUCKING RUIZ and you're saying he's better than Joe Louis.

Joe Louis lost 3 times...Evander has lost 10 times vs MUCH weaker opposition.

[donnydarkoIRL]

We all know Joe is superman in your eyes Lyle

But if you look into that competition list a little closer it's not that hot.
Max Baer was a killer puncher, but he was a clown and an inconsistent trainer.
Jim Braddock was a mediocre at best fighter, an over achiever and not even a natural heavyweight.
Joe Walcott I'll give you....The Bomber beat him in his prime.
Ezzard Charles was also great, but a light heavy naturally and suffered severe health problems.
Max Schmeling exposed Louis' defensive shortcomings in their first fight.
Rocky fought an old Joe and administered a savage beating.
Billy Conn was a Light Heavy and Jack Sharkey is hardly a Mike Tyson.

And Evander Holyfield lost to Michael Moorer one of the weakest heavyweight champions of all-time. Evander also lost to flash in the pan Riddick Bowe TWICE and was KO'd by him. Evander also got schooled by Chris Byrd, James Toney, and Larry Donald!

Joe Louis lost 3 times and was KO'd twice...Evander has lost 10 times vs MUCH weaker opposition.

Moorer....indeed only a mediocre champion.
However, with the evolution of the heavyweight division (size,) any fighter should have the ability to KO another.
I believe this applies to Holyfield.
Louis, a much smaller man than Holyfield could not possibly defend a title 25 times against such large men without some setbacks.

As for Bowe, I cannot deem him a "flash in the pan." He had the potential to be a great fighter and blew it. I could see him compared to Max Baer in that sense, although Baer certainly didn't neglect his body the way Bowe did.