Man...what a fukkin cold winter this is...

[El Kabong]

Yes go right ahead and try and discredit my view simply because I disagree with Al Gore. Sure I could bring up past stories about Global Warming, Global Cooling, or Climate Change from waaaaaay back in the day and all the choas and havoc they thought was going to go on and we're still here but that wouldn't matter as "new science" has provided new theories and new hypothesi about what affect we're having on the Earth. All I am saying is Al Gore is wrong and I have an opinion that's different from his, I'm not trying to sell books or movies or light bulbs and I don't benefit at all from having a different view, infact I suffer because recognizing "global warming/cooling/climate change" is the DEFAULT position of universities, the media, and so on but there are scientists who I agree with but it doesn't matter as everyone tries to discredit them as well.....so compare me with Sarah Palin if you like, I don't like her, I don't think like her but that too is the DEFAULT position of the left, whenever a Republican, Conservative, or anyone else disagrees with you just call them stupid...don't try and have a debate with them, don't have an intelligent conversation with them, just insult their intelligence and leave it at that.

[CGM]

Yes go right ahead and try and discredit my view simply because I disagree with Al Gore. Sure I could bring up past stories about Global Warming, Global Cooling, or Climate Change from waaaaaay back in the day and all the choas and havoc they thought was going to go on and we're still here but that wouldn't matter as "new science" has provided new theories and new hypothesi about what affect we're having on the Earth. All I am saying is Al Gore is wrong and I have an opinion that's different from his, I'm not trying to sell books or movies or light bulbs and I don't benefit at all from having a different view, infact I suffer because recognizing "global warming/cooling/climate change" is the DEFAULT position of universities, the media, and so on but there are scientists who I agree with but it doesn't matter as everyone tries to discredit them as well.....so compare me with Sarah Palin if you like, I don't like her, I don't think like her but that too is the DEFAULT position of the left, whenever a Republican, Conservative, or anyone else disagrees with you just call them stupid...don't try and have a debate with them, don't have an intelligent conversation with them, just insult their intelligence and leave it at that.

Man, you just contradicted yourself within one statement. Kinda like saying all democrats generalize. But let's not make this discussion into something it's not. I'm asking whether or not you agreed with Palin's position on global warming. This ain't about her smarts, or lack thereof. I'll assume the political leanings of Gore and Palin is a coincidence and has nothing to do with your position..

There are those who think that global warming is primarily caused by man made activities, and that the problems are going to continue to get worse and that we should try to change our ways a bit in order to do something. And there is a lot of science to support that.

And there are those who think Global warming is a natural thing, that is not caused by man's activities. That's the Palin theory, thouugh she ain't the only one. There is some science to support that, mostly the support is a reverse kind of proof, "It has not been absolutely proven that this is not the case"

Bush, he seems unable or unwilling to do anything, but he seems to lean towards option 2.

To diminish position I by calling it the "default position" is pure horseshit. Besides what do the fucking universities know anyway, right? Again you're making the same sort of mistake you accused me of making. The level of international opinion and scientific research is massively in favor of position I with the effect of greenhouse gases, burning of fossil fuels etc.

But yeah, there are some scientists who take position II

What's your position? From what I can tell, it seems more like position II. It seems like you are not ready to concede that global warming even exists, am I right?

[El Kabong]

There are plenty of scientists who don't think that Global Warming is man made. I think pollution is bad and all but honestly I think there are things that have more effect on the atmosphere than just carbon emissions. The Milankovich cycles for one...the Earth's orbit and tilt aren't always the same and therefore the sun can be closer or farther away from us and affecting the weather patterns.

Perhaps my views on the universities confuse you....who gives those great professors grant money? Probably the same people that thought corn based ethanol was worth sinking billions of dollars in to.

Also my huge problem with Al Gore and the leftists in Congress is that they are a group of walking contradictions. They have a speech somewhere across country and do they ride a train or drive a hybrid car to their location? No they fly in a plane, not just a commercial plane with tons of passengers therefore making the it the flying equivalent to a car pool, they fly in private jets. And they try and bring up this carbon offset bullshit....do you believe that shit?!?!?! Carbon offsets...they SELL them the same people who care so much about the poor people are trying to rip EVERYBODY off with this bullcrap idea that if we all plant a tree we can do whatever we want. It's the same thing as Royalty buying indulgences in the Middle Ages.

Oh well, I guess my opinion doesn't count so it doesn't matter what I think...I should just be happy in my blissful ignorance and let people like yourself worry about the environment

[CGM]

There are plenty of scientists who don't think that Global Warming is man made. I think pollution is bad and all but honestly I think there are things that have more effect on the atmosphere than just carbon emissions. The Milankovich cycles for one...the Earth's orbit and tilt aren't always the same and therefore the sun can be closer or farther away from us and affecting the weather patterns.

Perhaps my views on the universities confuse you....who gives those great professors grant money? Probably the same people that thought corn based ethanol was worth sinking billions of dollars in to.

Also my huge problem with Al Gore and the leftists in Congress is that they are a group of walking contradictions. They have a speech somewhere across country and do they ride a train or drive a hybrid car to their location? No they fly in a plane, not just a commercial plane with tons of passengers therefore making the it the flying equivalent to a car pool, they fly in private jets. And they try and bring up this carbon offset bullshit....do you believe that shit?!?!?! Carbon offsets...they SELL them the same people who care so much about the poor people are trying to rip EVERYBODY off with this bullcrap idea that if we all plant a tree we can do whatever we want. It's the same thing as Royalty buying indulgences in the Middle Ages.

Oh well, I guess my opinion doesn't count so it doesn't matter what I think...I should just be happy in my blissful ignorance and let people like yourself worry about the environment

First paragraph: OK you think it's more of a natural, cyclical thing than a man made thing. And there are plenty of scientists who have this point of view. I'll have to try and find out just how many. And I wonder who is paying for their research? Oil companies? Nah. This would be a good place to fucus our discussion, which scientists have ulterior motives and therefore not to be believed.

2nd paragraph: University profesors ( scientists) have ulterior motives. They are just telling the people who foot the bill what they want to hear.

Nice third paragraph, leftists are walking contradictions. Look for a contradiction somewhere in order to discredit them. But you can't blame them for taking a jet, since carbon emissions aren't the big problem. If you wan't, I'll come up with a pile of reasosn why a private jet is probably a good idea for a guy like Gore, and also probably justifiable from an environmental viewpoint, but that would mean accepting that Gore is doing anything useful at all.

Fourth paragraph: not worth responding to.

[El Kabong]

OK so an oil company pays for research and that right out makes it slanted but the government pays for research and it's completely unbiased. There's no double standard there.

Oil Companies are the boogeymen for the Democrat Party....the Republicans have boogeymen too, I accept that reality.

Tell me you think Al Gore isn't full of shit...I want to read it. I want to read about how concerned Democrats like Pelosi and Reid have cared for the environment and then have to catch a private jet flight to DC or California somewhere for something....it's completely fair for them to impliment policies that will hurt our wallets but they are unhurt because they can pay for their carbon offsets as we are hung out to dry....it's just one more thing we have to pay for. Where is the fucking outrage?!?! I bring up the Fair Tax and get hammered about the poor people paying more than their fair share or the taxes but I bring up carbon offsets and nobody seems to worry about how the minimum wage people are going to afford those.

The question I ask is "Are people making money off of Global Warming?" and yes people are making big bucks off of Global Warming...people in England are taxed for how many TVs they have and what type they are (correct me if I'm wrong British people).

[CGM]

OK so an oil company pays for research and that right out makes it slanted but the government pays for research and it's completely unbiased. There's no double standard there.

Oil Companies are the boogeymen for the Democrat Party....the Republicans have boogeymen too, I accept that reality.

Tell me you think Al Gore isn't full of shit...I want to read it. I want to read about how concerned Democrats like Pelosi and Reid have cared for the environment and then have to catch a private jet flight to DC or California somewhere for something....it's completely fair for them to impliment policies that will hurt our wallets but they are unhurt because they can pay for their carbon offsets as we are hung out to dry....it's just one more thing we have to pay for. Where is the fucking outrage?!?! I bring up the Fair Tax and get hammered about the poor people paying more than their fair share or the taxes but I bring up carbon offsets and nobody seems to worry about how the minimum wage people are going to afford those.

The question I ask is "Are people making money off of Global Warming?" and yes people are making big bucks off of Global Warming...people in England are taxed for how many TVs they have and what type they are (correct me if I'm wrong British people).

I think Al Gore is a smart guy, and in general I support his efforts to raise awareness of the causes and effects of global warming.

Your first couple of statements are more of the same politically motivated stuff. Oil companies are bogeymen for the dems. Right. You're the one turning this into a left right thing, not me.

Dude, you are the one who started in with the bias of scientists, not me. If you want to question the integrity of scentists who work at universities, with some flip comment about ethanol producers, then you have to consider the same for oil company scientists. And to say so don't make me a dem with a bogeyman.

I'm not sure what to think about gov't scientists. I suppose they should be subject to the same ideas. When it comes to environment vs jobs, up till now I kinda think politicians are more short term in their focus, with their own set of priorities. And I think some of their priorities are wrong. We'll see if Obama is any different.

IMO there is a major bullet that is going to have to be bitten, and sooner rather than later. We're all gonna pay a price, and more so our children. I have strong faith in the earth's ability to heal itself, but it needs a chance to do so.

[El Kabong]

I didn't notice Andre's post before I posted last. He has it right, I DO think it is important to protect what we have and conserve in areas we can conserve in....after all I am considered a Conservative and therefore not to disappoint I am for conservation of wildlife habitats and animals and so on.

I do not, however, believe that carbon offsets are going to do jack shit...that is a GIANT scam.

Listen, I enjoy the outdoors, I enjoy being away from cars and pollution as much as anyone else but I also understand that the economies of the world are driven by oil and petroleum products. And I understand that making products, delivering products, and consuming products causes waste and pollution. It's a situation where we need certain stuff and some of the stuff we need creates waste...it's a tough issue to face.

Also I do find it odd that these same people who want us to drive windup cars are anti-nuclear. Nuclear energy is the next step, it's the cleanest, most efficient form of energy but noooooobody dares build another power plant which could possibly be built to be more efficient than other power plants.

In closing, I do not agree with the BUSINESS of Global Warming. But I do think pollution is bad and we should look out for our planet....I just don't think it's "An Inconveniant Truth" bad.

[Andre]

Scientists generally suck dog balls if they are paid to find something out guess what they will find out.

My mates are trained by the goverment in land managment they are rangers etc taught what to think and exactly how to think it.

They have no comprimise to anything any longer its now rules and money in fines if you dont follow their rules and policies.

They are against cats being out and you get fined cause they destroy wild life etc (fair enough too).

BUT !

One of them has a dog that mangles about 5 blue tounged lizards per year cause he is let out of the house too but theres no law against that going on in your own back yard so they are blind to it and they get a bit fussed when you point it out that they arent all that squeeky green themselves.

[Andre]

Yes go right ahead and try and discredit my view simply because I disagree with Al Gore. Sure I could bring up past stories about Global Warming, Global Cooling, or Climate Change from waaaaaay back in the day and all the choas and havoc they thought was going to go on and we're still here but that wouldn't matter as "new science" has provided new theories and new hypothesi about what affect we're having on the Earth. All I am saying is Al Gore is wrong and I have an opinion that's different from his, I'm not trying to sell books or movies or light bulbs and I don't benefit at all from having a different view, infact I suffer because recognizing "global warming/cooling/climate change" is the DEFAULT position of universities, the media, and so on but there are scientists who I agree with but it doesn't matter as everyone tries to discredit them as well.....so compare me with Sarah Palin if you like, I don't like her, I don't think like her but that too is the DEFAULT position of the left, whenever a Republican, Conservative, or anyone else disagrees with you just call them stupid...don't try and have a debate with them, don't have an intelligent conversation with them, just insult their intelligence and leave it at that.

Man, you just contradicted yourself within one statement. Kinda like saying all democrats generalize. But let's not make this discussion into something it's not. I'm asking whether or not you agreed with Palin's position on global warming. This ain't about her smarts, or lack thereof. I'll assume the political leanings of Gore and Palin is a coincidence and has nothing to do with your position..

There are those who think that global warming is primarily caused by man made activities, and that the problems are going to continue to get worse and that we should try to change our ways a bit in order to do something. And there is a lot of science to support that.

And there are those who think Global warming is a natural thing, that is not caused by man's activities. That's the Palin theory, thouugh she ain't the only one. There is some science to support that, mostly the support is a reverse kind of proof, "It has not been absolutely proven that this is not the case"

Bush, he seems unable or unwilling to do anything, but he seems to lean towards option 2.

To diminish position I by calling it the "default position" is pure horseshit. Besides what do the fucking universities know anyway, right? Again you're making the same sort of mistake you accused me of making. The level of international opinion and scientific research is massively in favor of position I with the effect of greenhouse gases, burning of fossil fuels etc.

But yeah, there are some scientists who take position II

What's your position? From what I can tell, it seems more like position II. It seems like you are not ready to concede that global warming even exists, am I right?

I think Lyle is on the side that says its all trumped up beyond its real damages and they make it worse etc so that it creates a mega business out of the fearful. Aside from the political snowball they try to exact from it ; backing from the green side as the world thinks more that way the numbers increase over to that political side.

Both sides hold some water if the truth is known but to make it just a political issue first ,is head in the sand stuff and doesnt help anyone.

I've even heard some scientists state that our own pollutants are creating a shield across some ozone depleted holes against some of the damaging rays that would otherwise mess up photosinthesis etc. So theres the first catch 22 in real terms.

It is true, our reefs are being bleached by the suns rays the great barrier reef is nearly dead some say it was change from the warmer currents etc.
Probably a bit of both. Now star fish are cleaning up all thats left so its bare.

Pollutants are our main worry though ,cemical run off from farms and industry etc, frogs dissapear and we dissapear along with them. Deforestation second problem that equals no water retention aside from the obvious habitat ones. Once you break the life chain in a major fashion its every link for itself so to say humans and our industry dont have lasting effects and its all natures way is not true either.

Most hide the fact that we are killing each other and the planet off behind arguments for or against certain divisions of the overall problem and try to stand against others who take the opposite stance; so both those groups energies towards a working cure are a waste of time for a start its a head in the sand trick while pretending to care, sort of.

New york has a pile of garbage in the sea like an island ,I mean for fuks sake someone is completly onside with that!
And that is what they allow you to see ,imagine what these businessmen/politians bury where they can get away with it.


I know for a fact that there is a tank thats a 100 feet high and twice the diameter in Melbourne that is full of the liquid that breaks down plastics.This liquid, if you take one pin head of it in a room full of people they are all dead no exceptions.
Its in a yard on the docks (that are ran by the mob over here) . If some fool knew and shot a 303 into the side from one of the side streets it would kill everything for 600 miles which ever way the wind was blowing on that day and we live in a quake zone too!

We suvive the way we do(without total cancerous destruction) mainly because the beef we eat is like a first filter system against the cemical runoff that they ended up drinking in their water.2 4d and 245 twe only banned here some 25 30 years ago ,farmers continued to stock pile and use it secrectly until the stock pile ran dry.
We used to get super phosphate rained onto our roof in pellet form by a crop duster , that house had tank water!

We are all fukin mad the sh!t we put up with cause we are told its all ok,it sure as hell removes the uneducated or the weaker genetic links from within us though. Poor children from those old farm areas cop some major illnesses now.

Greenhouse /Brownhouse.

[Taeth]

You guys are complaining about minus 10 C? That feels like summer where I am, we just had two weeks of -30 C, and our coldest part of winter hasn't even come yet, and you guys wonder why I am so fucking bitter...

[CFH]

You guys are complaining about minus 10 C? That feels like summer where I am, we just had two weeks of -30 C, and our coldest part of winter hasn't even come yet, and you guys wonder why I am so fucking bitter...

What part of the country do you live in?

[leftylee]

You guys are complaining about minus 10 C? That feels like summer where I am, we just had two weeks of -30 C, and our coldest part of winter hasn't even come yet, and you guys wonder why I am so fucking bitter...

I had no clue you were Canadian. I always thought you were British.