Hamed/Marquez

[RozzySean]

Naz ducked Morales too?

If he had fought Morales instead of Barrera, i guess i would be reading people saying Naz ducked Barrera?

This boxing lark is great

I don't know if he ducked Morales. Maybe they tried to make a deal and couldn't do it. Maybe they had something in place if Naz beat Barrera to raise his profile in Mexico. I'm saying that he didn't duck Marquez, because Marquez didn't have the cache and recognition he has now. BUT.....IF (again, I don't know the details and would love to know ) he ducked anybody, he ducked Morales. Morales was at his peak and Barrera's stock was down, because of losses to Jones and El Terrible.

If you compare where Morales was at that point in his career and where Barrera was, Morales was top dog. Morales was undefeated. Barrera had lost twice to Junior Jones and Morales. Morales had far more marquis names on his resume. He was a beltholder at 125.

The Naz fight resurrected MAB's career and put him on the map. Barrera's run of greatness started with Naz and continued with is wins over Morales. Barrera's great claim to fame is that he beat Naz and took 2 of 3 from El Terrible. His peak years came from 2001-2005. Morales peak years were from 1997 - 2002. He jumped into the rejuvenation machine to beat Pac in 2005 and that only adds to his legacy, but Morales true peak ran more parallel to Naz's than MAB or JMM.

[Fenster]

Naz ducked Morales too?

If he had fought Morales instead of Barrera, i guess i would be reading people saying Naz ducked Barrera?

This boxing lark is great

I don't know if he ducked Morales. Maybe they tried to make a deal and couldn't do it. Maybe they had something in place if Naz beat Barrera to raise his profile in Mexico. I'm saying that he didn't duck Marquez, because Marquez didn't have the cache and recognition he has now. BUT.....IF (again, I don't know the details and would love to know ) he ducked anybody, he ducked Morales. Morales was at his peak and Barrera's stock was down, because of losses to Jones and El Terrible.

If you compare where Morales was at that point in his career and where Barrera was, Morales was top dog. Morales was undefeated. Barrera had lost twice to Junior Jones and Morales. Morales had far more marquis names on his resume. He was a beltholder at 125.

The Naz fight resurrected MAB's career and put him on the map. Barrera's run of greatness started with Naz and continued with is wins over Morales. Barrera's great claim to fame is that he beat Naz and took 2 of 3 from El Terrible. His peak years came from 2001-2005. Morales peak years were from 1997 - 2002. He jumped into the rejuvenation machine to beat Pac in 2005 and that only adds to his legacy, but Morales true peak ran more parallel to Naz's than MAB or JMM.

The MAJORITY thought Barrera won the first Morales fight.

Barrera was in the wilderness after the Jones defeat (he spent a period being promoted by Frank Warren and was originally offered, but refused, the Naz fight around this time) but fully redeemed himself against Morales - even though he didn't get the decision.

I don't think it matters who Naz chose to fight - Barrera or Morales. They thought Barrera's style would suit Naz more, so probably viewed him as the "easier" option, and he had been sparked before of course.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Old ground.

Barrera had a four fight deal with Warren when he was at 122, that's it. Maybe they (Barrera) thought it would move them closer to a fight with Hamed.

I think the Hamed camp thought Barrera would come to brawl like he did with Morales. Manny Steward joked they picked the wrong fighter when Barrera fought Jesus Salud.

Back to the topic JMM. At the time - JMM who?

Rain. JMM didn't duck Paq He and many others thought he had won, why shouldn't he get a better pay deal?

[Chino]

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

[fan johnny]

Juan Manuel Márquez - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Marquez turned down Hamed (fact) it was first reported that he wasn't offered enough money but in an interview (later) he said he wasn't given enough time to prepare. So how can he be waiting two years to get this fight and then say its not enough time or money and then turn around and fight Jiminez for less. Would you say that's ducking a fight or not?

"Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory." (cluck.. cluck..)

Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics.

"They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."

Pacquiao put about $30,000 in his pocket the first time he met MAB.

[CutMeMick]

Juan Manuel Márquez - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Marquez turned down Hamed (fact) it was first reported that he wasn't offered enough money but in an interview (later) he said he wasn't given enough time to prepare. So how can he be waiting two years to get this fight and then say its not enough time or money and then turn around and fight Jiminez for less. Would you say that's ducking a fight or not?

"Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory." (cluck.. cluck..)

Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics.

"They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."

Pacquiao put about $30,000 in his pocket the first time he met MAB.

Anyone can type in Wikipedia all that stuff is often moved/changed. I contribute to the boxing section and also to the one on BoxRec.

I've often had things that I typed altered and changed so not everything you read on there is the 100% true. Remember these things are put together by everyday people...

[Andre]

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

Agreed men at that level of the game dont duck as the name impiles fear.

Its timing the whole thing is timing in and out of the ring.
Managers are about timing/ Money .Trainers are timing/timing .
Fighters timing / glory /then the money.

Taking time out from a loss ,putting a match or two in between a loss is the safest way to redevelop your style to go back at one person with the correct sparring partners for any rematch. Its acceptable although not mentioned out front.
It would of been fantastic to have had a three way Mexican fight for the Grand Championship between Jmm Barrera and Moralles at the correct time though.
The Fans wanted it.
Throw Naz and that Koko guy from Hungary into that mix at the correct time and we would had an epic year.

[rene69]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

[Onix]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

I didnt know this exact scenario, but I was going to make a comment regarding this. Just cuz you are waiting for two years and suddenly decline a fight doesnt mean you ducked, it could exactly the situation that you described, given two weeks to prepare for a fight?! Joke. With an offer like that you can see who was ducking who.

[Fenster]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

Marquez was offered the fight Augie Sanchez took on the 19-08-2000

Marquez then fought Daniel Jimenez eight days later on the 27-08-2000

You sure you remember right?

[Andre]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

Thought the same thing ,"Ahh A light Mexican warrior with self control .timing and skills."

[fan johnny]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

So you don't get me wrong let me say that I like Marquez and think he's a great fighter and I absolutly hated Hamed, I wanted badly to see someone know the living shit out of him. That was just his appeal. Just like Mayweather Jr. They are fighters you love to hate. Pure attention whores.

Luck has nothing to do with with Marquez's career except for his current p4p rating. You reap what you sew. There's no need to make excuses for the guy. His own words are self incriminating. Marquez was doing fights 4 times a years and was always in shape. He wasn't a weight yo-yo like Hatton. He was "Afraid" to fight Naz plain and simple. He lost to Norwood a year eariler than the Hamed offer and that's main reason he had difficulty getting "Title fights". He could have fought many fighters he just has a big head and wanted to make bigger money rather that prove he is a great champion.

Just look at Pacquiao, who is Marquez's real claim to fame here, he took on Ledwaba with two weeks notice. Had Marquez done that (actually it was more than two weeks notice for Marquez) with Naz we might see Marquez and the p4p leader. But now we'll never know because Marquez is headed down hill.

[Julius Rain]

Old ground.

Barrera had a four fight deal with Warren when he was at 122, that's it. Maybe they (Barrera) thought it would move them closer to a fight with Hamed.

I think the Hamed camp thought Barrera would come to brawl like he did with Morales. Manny Steward joked they picked the wrong fighter when Barrera fought Jesus Salud.

Back to the topic JMM. At the time - JMM who?

Rain. JMM didn't duck Paq He and many others thought he had won, why shouldn't he get a better pay deal?

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

you guys are right, i used the word duck too losely and it is disrespectful to a great fighter like jmm.

the first fight could of gone either way and jmm does deserve to get a better deal. but at the time jmm was not as popular and it was a step backwards to go to asia and fight a unknown fighter worldwide, for a mere 30k. Pac was only making a few thousands fighting ledwaba,sanchez and only 30k to fight marco. JMM didn't duck pac but he made a bad decision taking chris johns offer because whatever pacs camp offer was still better.

Chino - Right now pac isn't fighting a chris john for 30k, his fighting a fighter that is one of the if not the most popular fighter worldwide, hatton for millions of dollars. Hatton is a bigger draw then JMM, Pac will make more fighting Hatton and legacy wise as well. JMM is the Greater fighter then Hatton but a win over Hatton is a lot better then a win over JMM right now. Because Pac has already won over JMM and another win would be great but a win over Hatton at 140 is ever GREATER.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Fenster.
You're being a tool in this thread.

Fact.

[Fenster]

Fenster.
You're being a tool in this thread.

Fact.

Well yeah.. anyone that ends a sentence with the word FACT when it's clearly NOT fact is obviously being a tool. Fact.